Koizumi gets emotional in Brazil

[Maciamo]

Koizumi gets emotional in Brazil

SAO PAULO, Brazil � Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi broke down in tears Wednesday as he recounted an enthusiastic encounter with descendants of Japanese immigrants a day earlier. Koizumi began his speech to an audience of Japanese-Brazilians by saying "Bon Dia" (Good morning) and "Obrigado" (Thank you) in Portuguese.

Saying one of his closest cousins is living in Brazil, the Japanese leader said Brazil is "the closest to my heart. All the people who have persevered under different weather, language, food and customs welcomed the prime minister of Japan," Koizumi recalled, pausing for a moment to wipe his tears. (Kyodo News)

[Lacan]

Is he faking or what?

[Apollo]

ah...a man with feelings!
Now I know Koizumi is not "all tough-guy."
I guess Brazil and Japan have had a special connection always, because of many Japanese Brazilians in Brazil, especially Sao Paulo....wonderful city...

[Lacan]

Originally Posted by Miss_apollo7

ah...a man with feelings!
Now I know Koizumi is not "all tough-guy."
I guess Brazil and Japan have had a special connection always, because of many Japanese Brazilians in Brazil, especially Sao Paulo....wonderful city...

Sorry for my ignorance but how come thre are many Japanese Brazilians in Brazil?

[Snake Plissken]

Perhaps there is an underground crime syndicate owned by the yakuza that creates drugs and harvests them. Then again.. it's not like i would know anything like that.

[Duo]

Why is that there are so many Japanese in Brazil ? Any specific reasons

[blessed]

ahh, so sweet... a priminister who can either fake his feelings really well, or actually show them... thats great... in, infact, I'm gonna cry now t--

[Apollo]

Originally Posted by Duo

Why is that there are so many Japanese in Brazil ? Any specific reasons

Brazil received more Japanese immigrants than other Latin American countries. Between 1,300,000 and 1,500,000 people of Japanese origin live in Brazil.

The first Japanese immigrants to Brazil were those who went in 1908.
When Brazil lacked workforces for farms, especially for coffee, and received European and Japanese immigrants to cover such needs.
Brazil saw the Japanese as a promising provider of workforce, which matched Japanese government's intention to enlarge its presence in the world, and many Japanese families wanted to have a prosperous life abroad. Thousands of Japanese farmers wanted to go to Brazil to get rid of the poverty and make some money by working arduously for a couple of years, like guest-workers. More and more Japanese workers set out toward Sao Paulo whose number reached 20,686 between 1918 and 1925.

Later, the Japanese farmers became more and more independent, having their own crops etc..

Now the Japanese are 4th generation in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Koizumi gets emotional in Brazil

Japanese-Brazilians by saying "Bon Dia" (Good morning) and "Obrigado" (Thank you) in Portuguese.

In portuguese it writes with M. Bom Dia.

Iｴve seen that Koizumi meet with Lula (president here) and they seemed in pretty agreement with many subjects.

About Sao Paulo , I love the city (one of my favorites in this world,) even with all the problems. The nikkei girls from there are soooooo cute!

[Duo]

Thank you miss apollo, I apreciate you taking time to explain it to me

[Apollo]

Originally Posted by Duo

Thank you miss apollo, I apreciate you taking time to explain it to me

Oh! You are welcome Duo.. Sao Paulo is a nice city to move to I guess also because of the climate!!!

Originally Posted by Miss_apollo7

Oh! You are welcome Duo.. Sao Paulo is a nice city to move to I guess also because of the climate!!!

I never liked hot,tropical weathers (not saying that I donｴt like S縊 Paulo, I love it). Always liked cold.

Well, I guess we are never sactisfied with what we have.

[yutaka kaneshiro]

we japanese always knew koizumi was an old softy,it was a big secret
untill he spillt the beans.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Lacan

Is he faking or what?

Yep, obviously.
I hate to see an man cry with all the affected emotions. Gives me the goose bumps.
What incredible release from all the tension !

[Dutch Baka]

Originally Posted by Duo

Why is that there are so many Japanese in Brazil ? Any specific reasons

why are there so many brazilians in brazil????

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Duo

why are there so many Japanese in brazil ? Any specific reason ?

Wikipedia says, in Japanese-Brazilian;

Brazil is the Latin American country that has received the most ethnic Japanese immigrants, as well as the host country of the largest Japanese community outside Japan (numbering between 1.3 and 1.5 million). The first Japanese immigrants (mostly farmers) came to Brazil in 1908 on the Kasato Maru from the Japanese port of Kobe, moving to Brazil in search of better life conditions. Many of them (along with Chinese immigrants) ended up as laborers on coffee farms. At the time, Brazil was experiencing a shortage of farm workers and turned to European immigrants and then to an influx of Japanese workers to satisfy this demand. Some ethnic Japanese came from neighboring Spanish-speaking countries.

Some Japanese also went to Brazil from Macau in 1999, when Portugal returned the Asian colony to mainland China. These Japanese are descendants of Japanese Catholic refugees expelled by shoguns, and they can also speak Portuguese and its creole — Patuá — but speak Cantonese Chinese as an additional language rather than Japanese.

[pipokun]

Originally Posted by lexico

Wikipedia says, in Japanese-Brazilian;

Just wondering why you picked up the 2nd quotation.

There must be Japanese offsprings in Macao, however more than 300 years ago... well, some of them might emigrate to Brasil as Japanese...
But had Portugese government been too cruel to accept the religious J refugees as citizens? Or have Japanese offsprings refused to assimilate to local communities there for such a long time?

After visiting my friends and talking to their parents and grandparents there, I'm pleased to say that I can share the Koizumi's feeling.
I'm sure that all Asian incl., Japanese can learn much from them for their diligence.

Interesting enough, there still remain some nikkei communities where people hold more J tradtions/values, but Liberdade in Sao Paulo, a well-known nikkei town with a shinto torii gate, is not the Japantown anymore.

It might be a good idea to browse what sort of person add the articles there. IP addresses doesn't tell everything, I know.

I'd really love to help the nihon matsuri in Sao Paulo soon again.

tchau, tchau.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by pipokun

Just wondering why you picked up the 2nd quotation.

The first quote was more or less parallel to Miss_Apollo's, with some different details, but the second seemed to be new info that could be added to the history of Japanese-Brazilians.

There must be Japanese offsprings in Macao, however more than 300 years ago... well, some of them might emigrate to Brasil as Japanese...
But had Portugese government been too cruel to accept the religious J refugees as citizens? Or have Japanese offsprings refused to assimilate to local communities there for such a long time ?

I wish I knew the details of it. Acc. to Wiki again on Macau;

The Macau Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China, （Chinese:中華人民共和國澳門特別行政區） short form Macau or Macao (short form of Chinese: 澳門，also informally known as "馬交") (see Names), is a small territory on the southern coast of China. It is 70 km southwest of Hong Kong and 145 km from Guangzhou. It was the oldest European colony in China, dating back to the 16th century. The Portuguese government transferred sovereignty over Macau to the People's Republic of China in 1999, and it is now run as a Special Administrative Region of the PRC. Residents of Macau mostly speak Cantonese natively; Mandarin Chinese, Portuguese, and English are also spoken.

Broadly, Macanese refers to all permanent inhabitants of Macau. But narrowly, it refers to an ethnic group in Macau originating from Portuguese descent, usually mixed with Chinese blood.

The 1999 immigration to Brazil must have been prompted by the reversion of Macau to the PRC. Possibly for similar reasons that some Hong Kong residents sought immigration to Taiwan, Canada, the UK, or the US ? Your point on retaining Japanese identity for 300 yrs is interesting indeed; some parallel instances could be the Korean communities of porecelain craftsmen in Japan who were abducted in the two Choson-Nippon Wars of 1592 and 1597 who retained their Korean identity; another would be the Hakkas (Kejia 客家) who remained distinct from the aborigines of Southern China even after 1 1/2 millenia.

Demographics

Considered as a "dependency", Macau is the most densely populated of the countries/dependencies in the world.

Macau's population is 95% Chinese, primarily Cantonese and some Hakka, both from nearby Guangdong Province. The remainder are of Portuguese or mixed Chinese-Portuguese ancestry, or the so-called Macanese. Some Japanese, including descendants of Japanese Catholics who were expelled by shoguns, also live in Macau. The official languages are Portuguese and Chinese. Though the residents commonly speak Cantonese, both Cantonese and Mandarin are de facto official. English is spoken in tourist areas. Macanese or Patuá, an ancient Portuguese based dialect, is almost extinct.

If this paragraph can be taken verbatim, not all Macanese of Japanese descent went to Brazil, but some chose to remain.

After visiting my friends and talking to their parents and grandparents there, I'm pleased to say that I can share the Koizumi's feeling.
I'm sure that all Asian incl., Japanese can learn much from them for their diligence.

I agree; many Asians left their homes in the early 1900's to work in the plantations. Many suffered from inequality and discrimination, but there were also many who worked hard to establish their families and careers in their new environments. Although Mr. Koizumi might not be in the most favorable position to speak for all Asian immigrants to the New World, he is surely entitled to represent the Japanese people's feelings to share with Japanese-Brazilians.

Interesting enough, there still remain some nikkei communities where people hold more J tradtions/values, but Liberdade in Sao Paulo, a well-known nikkei town with a shinto torii gate, is not the Japantown anymore...I'd really love to help the nihon matsuri in Sao Paulo soon again.

Would that mean Japanese-Brazillians became more integrated into Brazilian society ? How did this Japantown cease to exist ?

It might be a good idea to browse what sort of person add the articles there. IP addresses doesn't tell everything, I know.

Is talking about the migration of Japanese Catholics under shogunate persecution considered inflammatory ? I don't think anyone is blaming the shogun for expelling them. If certain citizens fled persecution and went to Macau 300 yrs ago, are they still considered "traitors" for abandoning the homeland as they might have been treated 100 yrs ago ?

[pipokun]

Oh just minor correction.
it was not your 2nd quotation, but your 3rd quotation.

Quote:
Some Japanese also went to Brazil from Macau in 1999, when Portugal returned the Asian colony to mainland China. These Japanese are descendants of Japanese Catholic refugees expelled by shoguns, and they can also speak Portuguese and its creole — Patuá — but speak Cantonese Chinese as an additional language rather than Japanese.

I agree; many Asians left their homes in the early 1900's to work in the plantations. Many suffered from inequality and discrimination, but there were also many who worked hard to establish their families and careers in their new environments. Although Mr. Koizumi might not be in the most favorable position to speak for all Asian immigrants to the New World, he is surely entitled to represent the Japanese people's feelings to share with Japanese-Brazilians.

it was my opinion about the asian diligence.

Is talking about the migration of Japanese Catholics under shogunate persecution considered inflammatory ? I don't think anyone is blaming the shogun for expelling them. If certain citizens fled persecution and went to Macau 300 yrs ago, are they still considered "traitors" for abandoning the homeland as they might have been treated 100 yrs ago ?

Yes. I guess all info can be interpreted according to your position.
But I don't deny free speech.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by pipokun

Oh just minor correction.
it was not your 2nd quatation, but your 3rd quatation.
...
it was my opinion about the asian diligence.

Thanks for correcting, and also for pointing out the Asian perspective which brought to this thread the kind of dignity it deserved. Interestingly we could communicate perfectly even if there was a "minor error."

Yes. I guess all info can be interpreted according to your position.
But I don't deny free speech.

I'm not sure if I have a position (other than my first remark that wasn't friendly; sorry about that).
What I don't understand, and would like to know is why the Japanese-Macanese immigration to Brazil would mean something negative to you. Do you not consider them as Japanese expatriates ? Did any of them not return to Japan after 300 yrs of separation due to some kind of unfriendly treatment from the Japanese gov't or did the Japanese people not want them back ?
I can understand there may be similar problems in other countries likewise; for example, the Korean-Chinese do not always get fair treatment based on their Korean ancestry, and some people here feel bad about it, that they should be treated better than the treatment they are getting now. Directly related to this problem is about "racial discrimination" against anyone who has absolutely no blood ties to the homeland. For example, Mandylion's point in Foreign workers with Japanese ancestry to get extra help. These are tricky issues, no doubt.

[pipokun]

Originally Posted by lexico

...
What I don't understand, and would like to know is why the Japanese-Macanese immigration to Brazil would mean something negative to you. Do you not consider them as Japanese expatriates ? Did any of them not return to Japan after 300 yrs of separation due to some kind of unfriendly treatment from the Japanese gov't or did the Japanese people not want them back ?
I can understand there may be similar problems in other countries likewise; for example, the Korean-Chinese do not always get fair treatment based on their Korean ancestry, and some people here feel bad about it, that they should be treated better than the treatment they are getting now. But you don't have to talk about it if it bothers you.

I know some remains there. But I didn't know the strong J community in Macao as the wiki guy and you think. If so, I don't know why WIKI mentions nothing about Japanese community in Macao.
I don't know and cannot find any info the Japanese-Macanese emigrants to Brasil. So I highly appreciate your contribution.

[dangdaga]

Thank you miss apollo, I apreciate you taking time to explain it to me

[bexchurnside]

Originally Posted by Miss_apollo7

Brazil received more Japanese immigrants than other Latin American countries. Between 1,300,000 and 1,500,000 people of Japanese origin live in Brazil.
The first Japanese immigrants to Brazil were those who went in 1908.
When Brazil lacked workforces for farms, especially for coffee, and received European and Japanese immigrants to cover such needs.
Brazil saw the Japanese as a promising provider of workforce, which matched Japanese government's intention to enlarge its presence in the world, and many Japanese families wanted to have a prosperous life abroad. Thousands of Japanese farmers wanted to go to Brazil to get rid of the poverty and make some money by working arduously for a couple of years, like guest-workers. More and more Japanese workers set out toward Sao Paulo whose number reached 20,686 between 1918 and 1925.
Later, the Japanese farmers became more and more independent, having their own crops etc..
Now the Japanese are 4th generation in Brazil.

Wow! 4th generation! But wouldn't they intermarry by then? How are Japanese men accepted as husbands by the latino Brazillian women?

[jonathancameron]

Originally Posted by bexchurnside

Wow! 4th generation! But wouldn't they intermarry by then? How are Japanese men accepted as husbands by the latino Brazillian women?

If you have Japanese nationality, and unlike many American Nikkei, have nationality even up to 4th generation unlike the US or Canada, since Japan is a developed nation and Brazil is not. Those with passports repatriating to Japan claiming to be Japanese at the work place get a little tougher time as they are told it is their duty as a Japanese national to learn the actual language to full fluency even more so than the Nikkei non Japanese Brazilians.

I love it, at least as a full blooded caucasian, they only say Sugoi, and tell me how wonderful my Japanese is. Maybe I will go to Japan and if I told some Japanese that if I would care to learn it, they have no excuse not to, perhaps like this:

こら！豚汁！早く徹底的に日本語を学ぶべきだ！この白 人の方でも貴方達よりも飛びぬいて日本語が上手だ！こ ら！日本人だろう、日本語習わないと恥ずかしいぞ！

Butajiru, is the derogatory term used in Japan against Brazillian Nikkei workers there. Maybe they will give me work there in the factories to get them fired up to learn Japanese seeing some caucasian like me is learning it.

When I see Japanese who don't speak Japanese and are nationals of that country, I love bugging them by saying 何で日本人なのに日本語があんまり出来ないの。 And the occasional time I do lose, there really is no glory for them, as I can say, 当たり前だろ、私は丸々白人だも。

I am having much fun at getting some insights into understanding Japanese mentality and playing with their heads a little.

[craftsman]

jonathancameron, I do believe you've started having conversations with yourself again.

(To anyone who is unaware - bexchurnside and jonathancameron is the same barmy poster)