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| View Poll Results: The underwater "structures" found at Iseki Point are | |||
| man-made structures of the prehistorical period |
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11 | 47.83% |
| man-made structures of the historical period |
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4 | 17.39% |
| natural rock formations used by humans in the prehistorical period |
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5 | 21.74% |
| natural rock formations used by humans in the historical period |
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1 | 4.35% |
| natural rock formations with planted or forged artifacts |
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0 | 0% |
| natural rock formations. Supposed artifacts are there by accident |
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4 | 17.39% |
| Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1 |
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Chukchi Salmon
![]() Join Date: Dec 22, 2004
Location: Sunny South Korea
Posts: 2,223
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An article presented at University of Hawaii, 1999, synopsis;
![]() ![]() ![]() --------Okinawan Rosetta Stone-----------------Stone tablet of unknown use
Yonaguni Underwater Museum (Nihongo! Many links to photos and articles) An Updated Article, 2001 (by Masaaki Kimura, English!) Moiren Institute interviews Masaaki Kimura (English! Many pics!) Ryukyu University, Underwater Probe (Nihongo!) A Continent Lost in the Pacific Ocean - Riddle of the Submarine Ruins in the Ryukyu Islands (book by Masaaki Kimura, English!) Graham Hancock's Page on Yonaguni Rocks (English!) Graham Hancock Challenges Spiegel Report (English!)What do you think the underwater structures discovered at Iseki Point were?
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Z: The fish in the water are happy. H: How do you know ? You're not fish. Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me. H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't. Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay. --Zhuangzi Last edited by lexico; Feb 19, 2005 at 02:58. Reason: add links |
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#2 |
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JREF Resident Alien
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Now we're on a subject that I love! Graham Hancock? One of the best researchers out there. His "Fingerprints of the Gods" and "The Message of the Sphinx" are must reads if you're interested in the subject.
I, for one, believe that these structures are real and were made before recorded history, maybe by some culture pre-dating modern history that someone, for some reason doesn't want us to know about. Possibly even going back 5-10,000 years or more. Maybe a sub-culture of Sumeria. Here is another link on the subject written by an author who has done massive research concerning "The Pyramid Builders". http://www.robertschoch.net/articles.html Halfway down the center of the page click on the link "An Enigmatic Underwater Structure off The Coast of Japan."
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Do What You Love And You'll Never Work Another Day In Your Life! ![]() |
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#3 |
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Chukchi Salmon
![]() Join Date: Dec 22, 2004
Location: Sunny South Korea
Posts: 2,223
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Thanks for the high-quality link:
I thoroughly enjoyed Graham Hancock's investigations in Ethiopia, Egypt, and Israel regarding beth-Israel, Prester John, the holy arc, and especially the latter days of Jeremiah in Egypt, and fragments of the Temple Scrolls excavated in ancient Elephantine. His reseach methods there were sound and convincing, and much was to be learned about the ancient cultures.
Originally Posted by Copyright 1999 by Robert M. Schoch; all rights reserved.
This is the latter part of Dr. Schoch's thesis. I find it highly objective and honest evaluation of Iseki Point imo, and therefore reproduced it. The ideas presented are gems to digest and will serve as milestones for future studies.
Last edited by lexico; Feb 20, 2005 at 02:19. |
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#4 |
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Chukchi Salmon
![]() Join Date: Dec 22, 2004
Location: Sunny South Korea
Posts: 2,223
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Iseki Point Makes Cover of Underworld!
Sorry about the broken link. Spiegel Doubts Iseki Point Dive
Graham Hancock Challeges Spiegel Report Harry Young's review of Graham Hancock's Underworld says, Quote: "Hancock's complementary land investigation led him to encounter the Japanese Jomon people in an attempt to unravel the mysteries of four Japanese underwater sites: Yonaguni, Kerama, Aguni, and Chatan. It is unclear whether any of these sites are man made, although a case for human intervention is well presented in Underworld. The Jomon seem to have emerged suddenly in Japan around 16,500 years ago, as dating of their pottery attests. Archeology shows they had good architectural and building knowledge (incorporating astronomical alignment designs) as well as developed spiritual ideas and religious practices. The Jomon were not wiped out by invading peoples but merged seamlessly, it appears, with another migrating culture known only as the "Yagoi." Today's Japanese culture is the descendent of this ancient cultural merging, which implies that the Jomon culture and its ideas still live on. The underwater ruins exemplify a hitherto unknown and perhaps extraordinary phase in their history." Quote: "Japan was not covered by an ice cap, had naturally precipitous coastlines and few low-lying plains, meaning that it largely escaped the ravages of the Ice Age cataclysms. If Japanese mythology is grounded in the myth-memories of the Jomon, it is not surprising that Japan has no indigenous flood myth. Underworld presents the idea that the Jomon lost their "beachfront" properties only, including coastal temples and other sacred and functional sites that now lie 30 meters under water. The recurring Japanese myth of the Kingdom of the Sea King connects closely with Japan's undersea ruins in two ways: that of the kingdom remembered as an island, and as an underwater sanctuary of walls, palaces, and mansions. In Hancock's words, "could it be a memory that great structures with 'turrets and tall towers of exceeding beauty' once stood above water but are now beneath waves?" (p. 594) Any comments on Hancock's version of early Jomon archeology? ![]() cover of Underworld: The Mysterious Origins of Civilization ![]() The world at the Last Glacial Maximum. Darker tint shows extra land above sea level. ![]() Iseki Point, Yonaguni Last edited by lexico; Mar 1, 2005 at 07:06. |
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#5 |
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JREF Resident Alien
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Originally Posted by lexico
WOW! That is news to me. I never knew that Japan is one of the only countries without a great flood myth. I took it for granted from Hancock's book "Fingerprints of the Gods" that ALL countries had some kind of great flood myth. I will definetly have to delve into this a little further.
The only reference he makes to Japan in that book is in Chapter 24 where he states, "There are Japanese traditions according to which the Pacific islands of Oceania were formed after the waters of the great deluge had receded." I will definetly have to read his book Underworld. Thanks for the info.
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#6 |
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Regular Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 9, 2005
Posts: 365
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i think its very possible that its a natural rock formation
in ireland we too have a very interesting natural rock formation called the giants causeway its not underwater though, but im sure thats just a matter of location ![]()
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Yokohama Living |
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#7 |
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tsuyaku o tsukete kudasai
![]() Join Date: Jan 19, 2005
Location: aberdeen, scotland
Age: 24
Posts: 1,334
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There is no law saying human civilization and technology and its evolution are linear, amerindian civilizations in the america's evolved without influence from the outside world so it stands to reason a stone age civilization existed in pre-history.
I love ancient civilizations and history around them, very interesting. Is there a possiblity this is the oldest civilization on earth?. Saying that alot of african tribal societies wouldnt leave much evidence if any but their still considored cultures. Top stuff. |
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#8 |
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Banned
![]() Join Date: Dec 15, 2006
Location: Australia & USA & N.Z. ( presently )
Posts: 58
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Bump it up !
Revive this old thread,interesting topic
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#9 |
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Veni, vidi... vicodin?
![]() Join Date: Jun 4, 2006
Location: Busan, S. Korea
Age: 31
Posts: 519
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Actually, the formation was considered by geologists to be natural, as the shoreline that is abovewater mimics the formations beneath the surface, but the visual effect is different because of the appearance.
The "Rosetta Stone" though... Darn. That's DEFINITELY man-made. Absolutely. Two bisecting lines at perfect right-angles carved into the surface? That's not natural. Graham Hancock is interesting, but his conclusions are just too far out-there. Don't get me wrong. I grew up on Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith stories, so I love to dream about lost Lemuria and Atlantis. But I don't think it's all that probable, especially if you read books by guys like Jared Diamond that discuss how civilizations arose due to sporadic patterns of plant domestication. You realize really quickly that a civilization cannot have existed during the last glacial maximum because there is absolutely no evidence for domestication until after the glaciers receeded. And civilization absolutely requires domestication of at least a small package of specific plants. Hancock needs to stop reading so much Blavatsky and get a bit of a grip. His challenges to the Sphinx's age are well-grounded and legitimate, but he needs to quit drawing far-fetched conclusions that there is no evidence for. If the Sphinx pre-dates earliest Egypt, that lends evidence to an advanced monument-building culture at that specific location (similar to Easter Island), it does not indicate a progressive civilization with commerce and industry, and it certainly does not lend creedence to some lost Atlantis or alien spaceships building monuments there.
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Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι. |
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#10 |
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Veni, vidi... vicodin?
![]() Join Date: Jun 4, 2006
Location: Busan, S. Korea
Age: 31
Posts: 519
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That "stone tablet of unknown use" is probably a boat anchor, come to think of it.
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#11 |
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Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 12, 2007
Location: Washington DC area
Posts: 1
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Since Yonaguni Structures Were Above Sea Level 11,000BP...
The Yonaguni structures are estimated to have been above sea level only in the period before 11,000 BP. It means the artisans had remarkable skill 6,000 years older than accepted archeology has as the age of the monuments in Egypt. The Yonaguni underwater monuments could not have been 'carved' by water because they were above water for a long period prior to 11,000 BP and air is not good at carving structures like steps and terraces. 11,000 years is not long enough for water to build structures like steps and terraces. Hardly seems worth mentioning all this because it is just common sense.
There are underwater artifacts in the Black Sea north of Turkey, off the western coast of Canada and Alaska, on the Great Georges Bank, and many other places. Up to 16,000 BP, Europeans crossed the ice bridge over the North Atlantic. They migrated north, south, and west from New England, mixing with Asians along the way. Through to 11,000 BP, the Mediterranean was a vast plain the elevation of which was below sea level. It was protected from the Atlantic ocean by the Gibraltar range. The Sahara was a lush plain, not a desert. It is estimated that the Atlantic broke through the Gibraltar range and flooded the Mediterranean plain about 9,600 BP. Since there are structures at Yonaguni during this era before 11,000 BP, there is a case for underwater archeology, especially in places where water levels rose catastrophically. I have been thinking for some time that "Atlantis" is now underwater in the Western Med. , probably covered in the silt from the catastrophic flooding of the Atlantic over the Gibraltar Range. Imagine an oceanic flood breaking through the Gibraltar ridge one night at 3AM. the waters would have risen so quickly and the torrents so rapid that few could escape. Boats for the local lakes would have been no match for the titanic flood. even horses could not outrun the rising water level because they can't run for weeks without a break. Why has no one checked there? If one understands how Humans react to events (politics, religion, economics, etc), it is possible to build a theory that underwater archeology can test. In general, sea and land trade was world-wide, artisans spread their craft everywhere, technology was key to competition, and the city in the right location (such as a good seaport or along a trade route) became rich. People having the technology to engineer mega-structures, like the ones we have discovered so far, and build them aligned to specific stars likely also had sailing ships and well developed language and communication skills. Culture centers probably rose and fell from 1 thousand-year era to the next. It may be that the people living in "Atlantis" knew the ocean levels were rising , that the Gibraltar Range would eventually be breeched, and mostly abandoned their city before the final conflagration. Perhaps they disbursed widely because they also knew their fertile Mediterranean Plain would all be flooded as it was below sea-level. I wonder what remnants of their civilization are below the sand somewhere in the Sahara? Perhaps the Jomon are descendants of these people. This scenario certainly accounts for all the language and migration patterns now emerging. Surely, archaeologists can be convinced to look beyond the obvious and easy-to-find ancient artifacts! Just use some common sense! Maybe today's archeology is so invested in the paradigm that it calls reality, there is no room for the rest of our human story. Most of us still live along water. My home is 300 feet above sea level right now. We have no thoughts of apocalypse. 16,000 BP, when sea levels were 400-600 feet lower and icecaps covered much of the Northern Hemisphere landmass, people certainly lived and built their cities along the ancient coastlines, too. Their heritage is most likely still there. We just have to analyze the shape of the coast lines then, and the shape of the ice covers. I wonder if in my lifetime whether established science will allow us to learn the true progress and technology our ancesters made. Last edited by Axial_Soliton; Aug 29, 2007 at 09:45. Reason: Skipped too many thoughts in original post. |
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#12 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Congratulations on this 2005 article...
First off, as is readily obvious by all the published literature, we are now (2008) discovering there are massive human habitat areas on what are now the ocean floors, including the coastal areas of Japan. (easily 50,000 additional square miles of Japanese ocean-floor-areas, showing ancient human habitat in my amateur estimation)
Iseki Point and Yonaguni are two prime examples of advances in the discovery process wherein this wonderful article written by Lexico in 2005 foretold many more recent discoveries, expanding on his idea. But on the Iseki Point area, I am adding two elements of interest: The first is a wide area view of the Iseki Island ocean-floor area, solid with rectangular, square, and circular objects somewhat visible in Google Earth (enhanced in Photoshop). The yellow line points to a square platform, apparently a temple-structure area 42 miles across. ![]() The second is the mid point of the Western side of Iseki island, near the navigation face cliff I mentioned before, showing up close temple areas to the near-West. ![]() I have to mention here, that so much of the Japanese coastal areas are deliberately obscured in Google Earth, the complete story cannot be told with today’s off-the-shelf tools. Google Map of Iseki, Japan area… http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=e...6,7.976074&z=7 Congratulations on a wonderful article written in 2005! Last edited by EdZiomek; Jul 25, 2008 at 00:51. Reason: mis-spelling |
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#13 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Sumerian script?
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#14 |
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Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 31, 2008
Location: hawai
Posts: 1
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Hi
![]() ![]() I love ancient civilizations and history around them, very interesting.Thank you
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#15 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Iseki Point stone, with false colors
For your review, I put the one Iseki stone into Photoshop for color manipulation and came out with several faces, with several more still on it and not displayed here. The hole in the stone is a stake which I believe held the stone to a grave area of family members. This is a grave’s headstone, in my amateur guesswork, and their religious belief was the astronomical cross in a circle, which is identical to the ancient sacred geometry of “square in a circle”, reflecting the prayer that “in the four corners of the circular celestial and physical world, this family would be together in the Divine Wisdom of the ages”.
![]() ![]() And it has remained true! In the thousands of years that have passed, the message to me is very clear, it is wonderful, and it is priceless, and it may be the oldest gravestone ever found. |
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#16 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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East Coast of Tanega-Shima, South of Iseki
As Google Earth periodically updates its satellite images of various locations, I have revisited many locations I viewed one year ago.
In some cases, additional undersea areas, especially coastal locations, seem to be added to the “deliberately obscured list”, which I have to accept. In other cases, there are rare improvements in the quality of photo imagery, and in this example, on the Eastern side of Tanega-shima, south of Iseki Point, a portion of the midpoint of the Eastern coast is brilliantly illuminated and defined. In this area, I found an interesting facial “death mask image” (I am calling it), that is positioned at about 130 degrees counterclockwise from True North. ![]() ![]() If you look real close, there are several face figures overlapping each other, with my outlined example the largest. In all my amateur research on the Atlantic ocean floor, I came across no artistic feature that I could recognize more severe than 85 degrees ccw, or so. Using my invented scale of: degrees rotated from today’s true north, divided by 360, and taking the product, times 25000 years of precessional rotation, 85 degrees represents 5900 years ago, while 135 degrees represents 9027 years ago. I am not going to publicly say where I would take my metal detector to this massive grave site of the 7000 BC time frame, but any remains be they pottery or metallurgic, would be most historic. And yes, it corroborate underwater findings of Iseki Point, several years ago. |
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#17 |
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Regular Member
![]() Join Date: Feb 27, 2005
Location: japan
Posts: 1,908
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Paleolithic life mark more than 30,000years ago and Jomon earthenware more than 9000 years ago were found Tachikiri Iseki http://docs.ksu.edu.sa/KSU_AFCs/arch...%20Islands.pdf http://www.synapse.ne.jp/naka-y/miru/iseki/seikatu.htm
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#18 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Wow!
Caster and Lexico...
I am overjoyed at this new information Caster supplied. The first article with HTML lookup, cites 4500 paleolithic areas being excavated, with 100 new locations added each year. It confirms my opinion that Japan is saturated with overlapping places, and the government and universities are doing something about it. America does not come close to this statistic, and the mindset here is that no cultured humanoids existed in the Western hemisphere before ??? 15,000 BC, and there was no European mix until 600 years ago, despite the evidence! Even the comment about pottery showing up 9000 to 13,000 years ago in Japan gives some credence to the "death mask" guess of 7000 BC. Possibly this is another gravesite candidate, even though he is a "youngster". Finally I have confirmation that a government, somewhere in the world, sounds committed to these ancient human presences. |
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#19 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Deciphering the Okinawan Rosetta Stone
The Bhuddist Temple of Bhoudnath Stupa, Nepal, I think compares favorably to the image within the Rosetta Stone of Okinawa...Need your opinion...
![]() http://imagecache01a.allposters.com/...al-Posters.jpg And the five vertical lines at the bottom, is this not “Wu Xing” The Five elements, the five movements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing The movements are: Wood Fire Earth Metal Water |
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#20 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Also, interesting Negev script comparisons
There are some interesting similarities between the Okinawan stone, and Negev-Hebrew-Egyptian glyphs found in the Sudan, Yemen, and Colorado.
http://www.viewzone.com/firsttongue.html http://www.viewzone.com/alphabet33.html http://www.viewzone.com/alphabet.html Some of the figures are explicitly identical in shape, if not meaning. |
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#21 |
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LovePeaceHappiness
![]() Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 285
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Okinawan stone, Egyptian translation?
I would like to add, that after careful cross examination, and certainly my amateur understanding and research of Egyptian hieroglyphics, I think I have found plausible symbol for meaning translations of the Okinawan stone found at Iseki Point.
It is the funerary declaration of a warrior’s life, maybe a regal warrior, maybe a simple warrior. ![]() This individual was exalted and praised throughout the land, he was involved in 3 or 6 major calamities/wars, in two different areas, and he is either 100 times exalted, or he dispatched 100 of his enemies, or he lived to be 100 years old, or he had 100 son/daughters/grandsons, it is anyone’s guess. It also looks like several thrones, princes, ruled under his direction. But it is an interesting match if only in guesswork, this Okinawa stone tablet, and Egyptian meanings, which are plausible, as interpreted by the symbolics found in An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary, Volume 1, 1921, by E.A.Wallis Budge. |
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