Monkeys really do swing both ways

Index · Mar 13, 2005, 15:08

Let the homesexuality debate rage on. Here's some more fuel for the fire.

mad pierrot · Mar 13, 2005, 20:58

As a security guard. One of my duties was monitoring the baboon pit. (They are incredibly vicious.) Anyways, staring at baboons 8 hours a day taught me something. They like to have sex. Lots of it. And yes, males will do it with other males.

Index · Mar 14, 2005, 10:43

I had to watch tortoises for a few days when I was at university studying animal behaviour. Staring at them for 8 hours a day taught me that they eat a lot of grass and that's about it. Wasn't much romance there at all.

**Ma Cherie** · Mar 14, 2005, 10:51

Interesting

**Damicci** · Mar 14, 2005, 20:49

"Do it like they do on the discovery channel"
::runs around in monkey suit::

RockLee · Mar 14, 2005, 21:08

I think it's also this way with humans !! Like lesbian girls are the forbidden fruit for guys...people always want what they can't get/have.

**lexico** · Mar 16, 2005, 01:48

Originally Posted by National Geographic News

Primatologist Amy Parish: On Reproductive Success
"Female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success."

"Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—[may] lead to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner directly impact[ing] reproductive success."

Paul Vasey: On Sexual Gratification "On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves...They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable. They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

Taking the whole group of invidivuals within one genetically close culture, having fewer newborns may also have positive effect by reducing undue competition for food resources. Leaving offspring behind doesn't always gurantee the survival of the fittest gene.

Originally Posted by National Geographic News

Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.

"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural...Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society.

Citing nature's occurrence or nonoccurence of homosexuality may have some valid points, but eventually should be only be used to dispell nature arguments in support of banning homosexuality, and hence considered secondary. Science can never say what is good, but only present examples for reflecting upon our basis of reasoning. At the same time, those against homosexuality can always drop the "nature" argument and turn to "culture" instead.

Originally Posted by National Geographic News

Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."

For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.

Then why are homosexual individuals expelled from the military ?

Originally Posted by National Geographic News

"An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds ... if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex.

Gargantuan sex drive ?

Then bisexuality may be the healthiest form of human sexuality, couldn't it ?
Given a formula, that would beat the Viagra craze.

Flashjeff · Mar 17, 2005, 08:44

I live with stuffed bears and all they do is watch TV. Sex is the furthest thing from their minds!

Index · Mar 17, 2005, 08:51

Originally Posted by flashjeff

I live with stuffed bears and all they do is watch TV. Sex is the furthest thing from their minds!

How do you know what they do when you are not around though?

Flashjeff · Mar 18, 2005, 08:57

Hmm! That's a darn good question! never stopped to think about that! Well, as long as they don't raid my stash of snacks, I can live with whatever antics they get into!

**lexico** · Mar 18, 2005, 09:55

Yet I wish those stuffed animals would come to life and talk to me sometimes.
I'm willing to share my snack, and my bed too. No problem !

Mar 13, 2005, 15:08	#1
Index 目録 Join Date: Feb 26, 2005 Posts: 541	Monkeys really do swing both ways Let the homesexuality debate rage on. Here's some more fuel for the fire.

Mar 13, 2005, 20:58	#2
mad pierrot I jump to conclusions Join Date: Nov 22, 2003 Location: The world via Chi-town Age: 28 Posts: 1,333	I worked at a Zoo for 4 years... As a security guard. One of my duties was monitoring the baboon pit. (They are incredibly vicious.) Anyways, staring at baboons 8 hours a day taught me something. They like to have sex. Lots of it. And yes, males will do it with other males.

Mar 14, 2005, 10:51	#4
Ma Cherie Your Goddess is here Join Date: Mar 24, 2004 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 1,202	Interesting __________________ "Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot." The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)

Mar 14, 2005, 20:49	#5
Damicci 天国に居る Join Date: Nov 4, 2003 Location: House of Blues Age: 31 Posts: 2,085	"Do it like they do on the discovery channel" ::runs around in monkey suit:: __________________ ☆Rieko☆ says: 目が大きかったらすぐにゴミがはいる

Mar 14, 2005, 21:08	#6
RockLee Hullu Join Date: Apr 22, 2004 Location: Espoo Age: 26 Posts: 3,084	I think it's also this way with humans !! Like lesbian girls are the forbidden fruit for guys...people always want what they can't get/have. __________________ ~ Parempi hullu kuin tylsä - Better crazy than boring ~ http://www.fin-style.be/blog -> My Blog about Finland and other random thingies.

Mar 14, 2005, 10:43	#3
Index 目録 Join Date: Feb 26, 2005 Posts: 541	I had to watch tortoises for a few days when I was at university studying animal behaviour. Staring at them for 8 hours a day taught me that they eat a lot of grass and that's about it. Wasn't much romance there at all.

Mar 16, 2005, 01:48	#7
lexico Chukchi Salmon Join Date: Dec 22, 2004 Location: Sunny South Korea Posts: 2,223	Originally Posted by National Geographic News Primatologist Amy Parish: On Reproductive Success "Female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success." "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—[may] lead to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner directly impact[ing] reproductive success." Paul Vasey: On Sexual Gratification "On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves...They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable. They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff." Taking the whole group of invidivuals within one genetically close culture, having fewer newborns may also have positive effect by reducing undue competition for food resources. Leaving offspring behind doesn't always gurantee the survival of the fittest gene. Originally Posted by National Geographic News Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield. "There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural...Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. Citing nature's occurrence or nonoccurence of homosexuality may have some valid points, but eventually should be only be used to dispell nature arguments in support of banning homosexuality, and hence considered secondary. Science can never say what is good, but only present examples for reflecting upon our basis of reasoning. At the same time, those against homosexuality can always drop the "nature" argument and turn to "culture" instead. Originally Posted by National Geographic News Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare." For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added. Then why are homosexual individuals expelled from the military ? Originally Posted by National Geographic News "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds ... if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex. Gargantuan sex drive ? Then bisexuality may be the healthiest form of human sexuality, couldn't it ? Given a formula, that would beat the Viagra craze. __________________ Z: The fish in the water are happy. H: How do you know ? You're not fish. Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me. H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't. Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay. --Zhuangzi

Mar 17, 2005, 08:44	#8
Flashjeff Pink Lady's Number #1 Fan Join Date: Dec 28, 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 50 Posts: 1,377	I live with stuffed bears and all they do is watch TV. Sex is the furthest thing from their minds! __________________ "It's better to try and fail than to never try at all." -Jeffrey C. Branch, crackpot philosopher Interested in old school J-Pop? Please visit my website: Pink Lady: The Website! Many thanks to Ayu-youkou for this mondo cool banner!

Mar 17, 2005, 08:51	#9
Index 目録 Join Date: Feb 26, 2005 Posts: 541	Originally Posted by flashjeff I live with stuffed bears and all they do is watch TV. Sex is the furthest thing from their minds! How do you know what they do when you are not around though?

Mar 18, 2005, 08:57	#10
Flashjeff Pink Lady's Number #1 Fan Join Date: Dec 28, 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 50 Posts: 1,377	Hmm! That's a darn good question! never stopped to think about that! Well, as long as they don't raid my stash of snacks, I can live with whatever antics they get into!

Mar 18, 2005, 09:55	#11
lexico Chukchi Salmon Join Date: Dec 22, 2004 Location: Sunny South Korea Posts: 2,223	Yet I wish those stuffed animals would come to life and talk to me sometimes. I'm willing to share my snack, and my bed too. No problem !

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