Question in english

[dreamer]

Sorry but can anyone tell me what does the expression "pear pressure" means?
Thank you very much ^^

[bossel]

Originally Posted by dreamer

Sorry but can anyone tell me what does the expression "pear pressure" means?

To squeeze a pear until juice comes out?

Sorry, couldn't resist!
Peer pressure means that your peers (members of your group), or the way they look at you, make you do/say things, that you actually didn't want to.

Or, to put it simpler: you do what the group wants you to.

[dreamer]

I see..english is a language with so many strange expressions...
It shows me that I still have a lot ot learn.
Thank you very much bossel

[bossel]

No problem! We all can learn forever, I suppose. Even native speakers.

BTW, isn't there a French expression for that (couldn't find one in a dictionary)? In German it's Gruppenzwang.

[lexico]

This topic is interesting because it was a new idea and word for my language that had to be learned. The learning itself was not difficult, but expressing "peer pressure" in Korean is still a challenge because it is not part of everyday language; I don't think it's in the vocabulary.

Shall be build a list of "real equivalents" and "possible calques" in some of the native languages of the members here ?

As for English and German we already have those; how about in other languages? How about bullying, a peer, or peer group ? Whate are these in the other languages ?

1. English: peer pressure
German: Gruppenzwang
French: ?
Japanese: 仲間圧力
Mandarin: 伙伴压力
Korean: 동료압력 同僚壓力 :understandable, but sounds very unnatural
-----
2. English: (collective) bullying
German: ?
French: ?
Japanese: いじめ / (集団)村八分
Mandarin: 维持眼睛
Korean: (집단集團) 따돌림, 이지메 (Japanese loan)
-----
3. English: a peer
German: ?
French: ?
Japanese: 仲間
Mandarin: 伙伴
Korean: 동료 同僚
-----
4. English: peer group
German: ?
French: ?
Japanese: 仲間集団
Mandarin: 伙伴集团
Korean: 동료집단 同僚集團

[bossel]

Originally Posted by lexico

This topic is interesting because it was a new idea and word for my language that had to be learned. The learning itself was not difficult, but expressing "peer pressure" in Korean is still a challenge because it is not part of everyday language; I don't think it's in the vocabulary.

Seems not as interesting as you think, judging from the lack of responses.

To me, the words as such are not that interesting. What I find much more interesting are the underlying concepts. Why is it so hard for a Korean, whose country seems much more collectivist than Germany, to find a fitting expression? Is peer pressure so obvious that words are not needed? Or is peer pressure so internalised that there is no need for words? Maybe peer pressure simply isn't seen as a problem, because it seems so natural in a collectivist society?

Why the apparent lack of such a word in French, which is socially & linguistically much closer to Germany than Korea?


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2. English: (collective) bullying
German: Schikane / schikanieren

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3. English: a peer
German: Gleichrangiger (maybe even Kumpel or Kamerad)
French: pair (?)

-----
4. English: peer group
German: Alterskohorte (or also Freundeskreis, Clique)

[lexico]

Originally Posted by bossel

Seems not as interesting as you think, judging from the lack of responses.

To me, the words as such are not that interesting. What I find much more interesting are the underlying concepts. Why is it so hard for a Korean, whose country seems much more collectivist than Germany, to find a fitting expression? Is peer pressure so obvious that words are not needed? Or is peer pressure so internalised that there is no need for words? Maybe peer pressure simply isn't seen as a problem, because it seems so natural in a collectivist society?

Why the apparent lack of such a word in French, which is socially & linguistically much closer to Germany than Korea?

I wouldn't be that interested myself because we lack it, yet it becomes interesting that others have it. As to why, that is definitely more interesting as you say.

1. I don't know. If something isobvious, do we not need a word for it ?
2. Is this a paraphrase of case 1.? obvious = internalised ?
3. This sounds the same to me as cases 1. & 2. Do obvious, internalised, & natural mean the same?
Being a problem is a new idea. Then if something is not a problem, does that mean we don't need a word for it?

As for the counter-questions I raise are not to refute legitimate questions, but to ask you if you are thinking them as sufficient causes or necessary conditions.
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The real answer is evading me, but I think the concept of a peer, i.e. a true equal, does not exist in Korean society. Friends or alumni can be considered peers, but in a social context rarely has a postive and legitimate existence. A hundred yrs ago, we had the four castes of 士, 農, 工, 商. These were hierarchies fixed by birth. On top of these existed the royalties, and the slave class. Even within one group, the stratification went on to differentiate each relationship into a 先輩 and a 後輩.

Even when two people of same age and class become friends, and forego the use of 敬語, the senior-junior relationship would remain at least symbolically for indefinite. Having no reality that can be rightfully called a "peer" but only isolated instances of a friend or an alumnus, all of which can be subdivided by birth, rank, wealth, and date of birth, precluded the existence of any word translatable into "peer." The closest possible would be a friend, or friends, but it lacks the generic, natural idea of an equal. This is just my hypothesis.

[dreamer]

sorry lol
I had completely forgotten this thread XD
Well...I'm not really sure about it but I would say "pression de groupe" which would mean the pressure generated by a group of people. Another expression might be "pression collective" but this one would mean that everyone is under the same pressure.
Beside "pair" means someone who's like you so I don't know if fits in the subject I think I'd use the term semblable which means similar as an adjective but also similar being as a noun.
Concerning Bullying, well we tend to use the term racket (racketer for the verb) which comes from the english verb to rack (to deal pain), however I can't think of another french term at the moment.
However I think it might be easier to find this kind of expression in German or chinese since these languages can link words easily. During my early years, I've learned a little bit of german and I recall that with two words you can easily make a third one (for example here Gruppe: group + Zwang : constraint, strength). This is quite similar in chinese where you can easily create a new expression (I'm not gonna talk about words here) with two or more existing terms/characters. To my mind, French lack of this flexibility, which may be why we don't eally have "all made" expressions.

[bossel]

Originally Posted by lexico

1. I don't know. If something isobvious, do we not need a word for it ?
2. Is this a paraphrase of case 1.? obvious = internalised ?
3. This sounds the same to me as cases 1. & 2. Do obvious, internalised, & natural mean the same?
Being a problem is a new idea. Then if something is not a problem, does that mean we don't need a word for it?

Hmm, obviously the German interpretation of English is different from the Korean one (I don't dare to say which is closer to the British interpretation). To me the differences between 1 & 2 are obvious, while number 3 is just a rhetorical question to show my approach to an answer (maybe I shouldn't have used a question mark).

1) Obvious here should mean "everybody is aware of peer pressure & thinks that it's the most common thing in the world, hence no need to talk about it."

2) Internalised should mean that people have no awareness of peer pressure (as a concept), but it's present/imprinted in the subconscious.

3) ... is more or less a combination of 1 & 2 (see above).

A hundred yrs ago, we had the four castes of 士, 農, 工, 商. These were hierarchies fixed by birth. On top of these existed the royalties, and the slave class. Even within one group, the stratification went on to differentiate each relationship into a 先輩 and a 後輩.

Interesting, similar social structures existed in Europe, too. Although the differentiation regarding age was probably not as strict.

Even when two people of same age and class become friends, and forego the use of 敬語, the senior-junior relationship would remain at least symbolically for indefinite. Having no reality that can be rightfully called a "peer" but only isolated instances of a friend or an alumnus, all of which can be subdivided by birth, rank, wealth, and date of birth, precluded the existence of any word translatable into "peer." The closest possible would be a friend, or friends, but it lacks the generic, natural idea of an equal. This is just my hypothesis.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense in a way.

BTW, this made me aware that I don't know when the word Gruppenzwang first appeared in the German language. I looked it up in the rather old Grimm German Dictionary & couldn't find it (nor could I find the synonym Gruppendruck). I will have to look that up in an etymological dictionary.

Originally Posted by dreamer

However I think it might be easier to find this kind of expression in German or chinese since these languages can link words easily. During my early years, I've learned a little bit of german and I recall that with two words you can easily make a third one (for example here Gruppe: group + Zwang : constraint, strength). This is quite similar in chinese where you can easily create a new expression (I'm not gonna talk about words here) with two or more existing terms/characters. To my mind, French lack of this flexibility, which may be why we don't eally have "all made" expressions.

That is true, actually. But it is not necessary to agglutinate to form fixed expressions. It is still a bit puzzling for me that French lacks a word (IE fixed expression) for this concept. That may be due to the rather recent appearance of the concept as such, though. As I said, I will have to look up when this concept actually made its entry into the German language.