What English sounds are most diffcult for the Japanese to learn?

[Leroy_Brown]

All of them.

Seriously, of all the sounds, I've found they have a very tough time with the "er" sound, as in "first", "third", and "hurt". "First" and "fast" are pronounced the same way in Japanese: "faasuto". "Third" is a tough one because they also don't have the "th" sound. It comes out "saado".

Does anyone have any good ideas for teaching this sound?

[ObscureAngel]

lol yes i've noticed that the "r's" are hard for the japanese to learn let see how did i teach haruka to say them oh i just gave her plenty or "r" words to say amd i'd help her say them, like okay, say Rabies and she'd be like, "labies" and you just try hard to get thm to do the er sound....... it was a long year>< but she learned and was speaking great english in now time ^^ but now she went back to Kobe V_V

[lexico]

I know absolutely nothing about teaching a native Japanese speaker the sounds of American English. All the Japanese I've met either spoke excellent to good English, so what little I know of the native speakers' speech habit comes from the stereotypifications I've heard or formed from Engrish.

When I consider the great agility of the dancer allowing high performance in the martial arts, and the vocalist making near perfect native sounds in just about any langauge, I would like to suggest the self-awareness approach. Beginning with sounds of nature, such as the sounds of waves on the beach, the chirping of birds, the croaking of roosters or frogs, sound files of various languages of the world, have the Japanese student mimic what they hear.

The pronunciation barrier only exists because the student is still working in a "language" mode. Without having a high dose of English exposure for a prolonged period, sound imitation would be very difficult, because the sound areas in the ascustic memory are already allocated in a certain way; the Japanese way. Exposure to sounds of nature and sounds of strange langauges to mimic only might help the student to listen to his/her own colors and qualities of vocalization.

[Leroy_Brown]

Lexico-san,

This is just a joke, so don't be offended. I worked at a Japanese restaurant many years ago, and one of the cooks started joking around and said "Do you know how to say 'Please lend me money' in Korean and Japanese at the same time?"

Kane kaseyo!

[darg]

I actually have tried to teach some Japanese people American pronunciations, so let me think... Of course 'r' and 'l' are hard to distinguish for them along with things like 'she' and 'see', and as you said 'th' can be a challenge as well. One way to think about it is what sounds you'd have to learn to speak Japanese properly- if you know the basic sounds present in Japanese it should help you figure out what might pose a challenge for them in English.

Some other things they may not say exactly right are 'hoo' as フ in Japanese is sort of in between 'hoo' and 'fu', and 'too' since ツ is the closest native Japanese sound.

[misa.j]

I still have a hard time listening to "can" and "can't". Lots of times I have to ask the person to repeat or just guess from what they say next.

"l" and "r" are very common problems for the Japanese.
Like Little Italy or cellular, I have to practice many times.

[Maciamo]

Regarding consonant, the Japanese have difficulty with b/v, r/l, th, f/h (especially followed by a "u" sound, like food/hood), w (followed by a "u" sound like in "wood, wool, woman...) and y (especially followed by a "i", like in "yin" or "yield").

For the vowels, there is a difficulty with most of the 12 vowels except "i" (like in "happy") and "e" (like in "bet") and "a" (like in "heart"). They have especially difficult to pronounce or recognise the vowels like the the "i" in "bird", the "a" in "arrive", the "u" in "sun" and the "a" in "cat", which they all pronounce like a Japanese "a" (short, or long like in "heart"). They also can't say that sound between "o" and "a" like in "got" or "sock".

If we want to be strict, we could also say that the Japanese "u" is not the same as the English "u" (like in "foot"), which should be pronouced with slightly rounded lips, and most "i" in English are halfway between a Japanese "i" and "e" (in words like "dinner" or "pin").

Another difficulty is to end a word with a sharp consonnant, and not a "o" (no, it is not "testo" but "test" ! )

[Leroy_Brown]

Caught, court, and coat would all be pronounced the same and written the same way in Katakana--コート.

Bus, bass, and bath would all be written バス
There is no way to differentiate the differences in sounds when written.


Recently in the Japanese media, I've noticed that the Katakana ウ (u) is being used for the "L" sound where formerly ル (ru) had been used. For example, for a martial artist named "Vitor Belfort," I would expect it to be written ベルフォート in a newspaper, but it was in fact written ベウフォート.

In another example, I saw on TV a female-Japanese English teacher teaching to a bunch of kids how to pronouce the word "apple." I expected to hear the usual アップル (appuru) but she instead pronounced it アッポウ (appou).

This is a bad move. Just because the Japanese have difficulty with the L sound, it's no reason to substitute an equally incorrect sound for it.

What if a Japanese visited the U.S., went to a grocer, and said "Please give me アッポウ." The grocer will think WTF is he talking about?!?!?! The visitor would probably be more comprehensible if he just said アップル.

Either you learn how to say it completely correctly, or choose the lesser of the incorrect ways.

[misa.j]

Can you guys suggest me a good way to listen to and pronounce can and can't? I really have a problem with them.

For can't, my husband has suggested me to stretch my lips to the side and press my tongue behind my upper front teeth instead of actually pronouncing a 't' at the end.

For can, I should almost say it like "cun".

Are these good suggestions, or are there better ones?

[Leroy_Brown]

For me, the vowel is longer in "can't". Like "Kyee'yant".

For "can", if you say "I can do it", say it like your hubby suggests. To say "Yes I can", it's "Kyan".

Sorry if I'm not making it clear.

[-Rudel-]

I'm still teaching my fiancie to say, "thriller." hehe

It always comes out as,　スリーラー。

As I help her say it and tell her some of the correct tongue placement according to the way I say it and have learned, she gets it right after a few tries. But ask her the next day I have to teach her again.

Definitly a deadly combo of "Th"s and "L"s

[Leroy_Brown]

Rudel,

Also try "plural". LOL!

But can YOU say "surgery" in Japanese? Shujutsu? Even a lot of Japanese can't say it. It often comes out "Shijitsu" or even "Shiritsu".

That's probably why the Japanese martial art "Juujutsu" eventually came to be spelled Jiu Jitsu in Brasil.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by misa.j

Can you guys suggest me a good way to listen to and pronounce can and can't? I really have a problem with them.

For can't, my husband has suggested me to stretch my lips to the side and press my tongue behind my upper front teeth instead of actually pronouncing a 't' at the end.

For can, I should almost say it like "cun".

Are these good suggestions, or are there better ones?

Phonetic transcription may help.
can = /khae:n/ <== This is the isolated form in the dictionary, not universally applicable. In real life, 'can', as an auxiliary verb, becomes unstressed. An unstressed, non-i vowel tends to turn into the schwa sound /@/. ('Gun' has a vowel that is stressed, but otherwise identical vowel sound.)

"You can watch TV after doing homework." -- /kh@n/
Here the 'can' is unstressed & short schwa sound.

When the 'can' and 'not' are merged as 'cannot,' the schwa is retained. /kh@nna':t/. This is because an auxiliary verb is unstressed, whereas an adverb is stressed in consecutive speech. The only instance when 'can' and 'cannot' are pronounded /khae':n/ and /khae':nna't/ is when exphasis is given to the 'can' part to draw proper attention, e.g. when correcting a misunderstanding. In ordianry (non-emphatic) speech, the schwa must be used.

When 'cannot' is contracted to 'can't' something interesting happens; with the 'o' of the stressed adverb 'not' is being dropped, the stress associated with the 'o' becomes transferred to the 'a'. In a chain reaction, the stress revives the suppressed 'a' with the schwa sound back into the 'a' with the full /ae':/ sound. (One more phenomenon invoved is the occasional deletion of the /t/ in an 'nt' cluster. Not all the time, but quite often.)

can not > cannot > can't > can' (slang orthography)
/kh@n na':t/ > /kh@nna':t/ > /khae':nt/ > /khae':n/
Try saying the contracted from in answering the question;

Q: "Can you come to the picnic ?"
A1: "I can't." "Have a term paper to finish."

Make sure you have the 'can't' part either /khae':nt/ or /khae':n/; the point being
1) vowel position /ae/
2) vowel length long /ae:/
3) stress /ae':/ are all there.

Another quirk comes in when 'can't' is not the last word of a sentence. Especially when the consonant immediately following 'can't' is a /b/, /d/, or a /g/. When these sounds follow 'can't' the suppressed /t/ sound becomes reactivated to have the force of the glottal constriction, like the /h/ in the emphatic 'Ah' exclamation during a tennis match. These particular combinations will produce the glottalized (intensified at the vocal cord) sounds /?b/, /?d/, and /?g/. Compare the following pairs and try to make an exaggerated distinction for practice.

"She can be really nice." /shi' kh@m bi ri':@li nai's/
"She can't be the one !" /shi khae':m ?bi th@ w@'n/

"You can do it !" /yu': kh@n du': it/
"You can't do it !" /yu khae':n ?du': it/

"I can go." /ai' kh@ng gou'/
"I can't go." /ai khae':ng ?gou'/

In these last three constructions, the intensified /?b/s, /?d/s, and /?g/s will give you another cue to the KAN sound meaning 'can't', not 'can.'

Summary: can vs. can't
can /kh@n/ is unstressed, schwa, short.
can't /khae':n(?)/ is stressed, ae, long.

When followed by b, d, g (rough notation: trial)
can+b,d,g -> k@mb, k@nd, c@ngg
can't_b,d,g -> cae':mp, cae':nt, cae':ngk

If any point was unclear, do PM me.

[-Rudel-]

Originally Posted by Leroy_Brown

Rudel,...
But can YOU say "surgery" in Japanese? Shujutsu? Even a lot of Japanese can't say it. It often comes out "Shijitsu" or even "Shiritsu".

That's probably why the Japanese martial art "Juujutsu" eventually came to be spelled Jiu Jitsu in Brasil.

Well, it just so happens that my fiancie is a Radiology,Heart Surgery, X-Ray, erc etc Nurse for the Chubu Hospital. I'll ask her to say Shujutsu for me. hehe. Spelled out in a single word without a sentence I can say Shujutsu....Real easy. Perhaps if I added it to a sentence and try to speak it fast fluently, it could be hard.

[Leroy_Brown]

Ask her to say "I am really Roland from Ireland" LOL!

[Pararousia]

Phonetic transcription may help.
can = /khae:n/ <== This is the isolated form in the dictionary, not universally applicable. In real life, 'can', as an auxiliary verb, becomes unstressed. An unstressed, non-i vowel tends to turn into the schwa sound /@/. ('Gun' has a vowel that is stressed, but otherwise identical vowel sound.)

I used to think I knew how to speak English until I read this! *ROFL*

[-Rudel-]

Originally Posted by Leroy_Brown

Ask her to say "I am really Roland from Ireland" LOL!

Akemi - あいま　りるり　ろらんづ　ふろむ　あいるらんづ

I said it a few times to her, this is what she says...haha. She typed out the top portion there on how she pronounces it.