Violence

[deadhippo]

Today i was talking to this lady, a middle aged japanese lady
and she asked me what i thought of japan
i said for me
a white foreigner
japan is a pretty cool place
i dont have any trouble
i dont work like japanese people and i didnt have so suffer through the education system
usually japanese people are surprised by my opinion that
for a white foreigner its pretty cool here, but for a japanese person its like hell
but this lady was not surprised that i thought it was hell for japanese people
(for many reasons irrelevant to this story)
in fact she agreed with me
she told me that japan has become strange with children killing their parents and parents killing their children
i have to admit that she seemed more concerned about children killing their parents than vice versa
probably because of her age
she told me that sometimes mothers of her generation killed their children when they commited suicide becasue they didnt want to leave them behind
she gave other reasons why it happened but i cant recall at the moment
but these days she said children killed their parents for simple reasons like being told to study harder
she told me she was afraid of young people these days
that her husband had a short temper
but she told him not to say anything to anybody on the train because she was afraid of what might happen

to tell you the truth i thought she was exaggerating a little

that was this afternoon, i finished work at 10:00pm and on my way home i suddenly heard a scream
i wasnt too sure what it was or where it was coming from but i was sure it was a scream
and sure enough the scream started again and i started to move in the direction i thought it was coming from
it was a woman screaming and it was one of the most desperate screams i have ever heard in my life
if you have been to yokohama
you might know an area where there are two roads built directly over and along a river
this is near where the incident occured and near where i work
at first i though the screams were coming from one of the roads
that some girl had been thrown out of a car on the highway high above my head
but i was definitely getting closer to the sound
i wondered how i could get up there
but then i saw movement on the other side of the river and instinctively knew that was where the noise was coming from
i ran as fast as i could to the next bridge
i was sure some men were trying to rape this girl or something like that
when i rounded the corner of the bridge i could see several people but it was quite dark so i didnt know what was going on
but i could see i was outnumbered and fear it my heart but i had to go on
as i got closer i could focus on one young boy who seemed to be about to runaway
without really knowing what was happening
who the good guys were or who the bad guys were
or if it were so black and white
i decided i better stop this guy
so luckily i could stop him and he was soon taken off my hands by a japanese man
the japanese man was trying to hold him and wasnt doing such good job of it so i helped
i was still in the dark
but some more men came and we put this guy and one other less agressive guy on the ground
the police had been called
then i noticed another man lying on the middle of the road
not moving
all this time i could see and hear this woman screaming
i walked over to the man who was lying in an unnatural position
i lightly put my hand on this back to see if he was breathing
another man was taking his pulse
he was breathing but he was in pretty bad shape

at this point i guessed it was a hit and run on a scooter
this was not what happened thoug

after a while the police arrived and ilearned from my girlfriend what had really happened
those two boys had been picking on a schoolboy and this man tried to stop them
one schoolboy saw the other two youths arguing with a salaryman and he intervened and it stopped
he thought it was over but when he went away they started to beat up the salaryman
so the schoolboy called the police
the youths knocked the man to the ground and he grabbed one of them on the ground and the other started kicking him until he let go *corrected
and his wife tried to help so they started to kick and punch here too
and this point the screams started

a nearby taxi driver the heard the screams and rushed to help
i dont know where the other men came from but there was plenty of help
they punched those boys and kicked them in the head and stood on their hair
but they eased off when i told them to, that the police were coming
of course i hadnt known what had happened at that time
now i can understand their anger
and i probabaly would have acted in a similar fashion in the heat of the moment
tonight i hope those boys are 18
or they will be at home watching tv tonight

[lexico]

It was good of you to help in what sounds like a very confusing situation. I am glad to know that there were quite a few citizens who stuck their necks out to stop something wrong from happening. I can fully see the reasoning of counting heads in that kind of situation; I was once outnumbered in a similar yet bad situation and got beaten though not in Japan. Thank god it wasn't turning for the worse. I do hope the two youths learned their lesson. Kids from stressed out families tend to breed violence, often stemming from domestic violence or simple frustration not taken care of positively. Please try to relax, for that must have been a shaking experience for you.

[deadhippo]

thanks for your support Lex
actually some details of the story were incorrect
i will correct them later

[Ma Cherie]

Oh my, that's awful. Goodness if you and those other people didn't help that situation could've been much worse.

[Rio Lee]

Err, there are some part that I don't understand. Can you clarify this for me

Originally Posted by deadhippo

tonight i hope those boys are 18
or they will be at home watching tv tonight

[/quote]

My english sucks so i'm having a hard time understanding that part.

[Uncle Frank]

Originally Posted by Rio Lee

Err, there are some part that I don't understand. Can you clarify this for me

My english sucks so i'm having a hard time understanding that part.[/QUOTE]

If they are classed as NON-adults, they will probably get a stern warning and be sent home with their parents. As adults, probably do some jail time? I think that's what he ment?

Frank

[Limonette]

Good of you to help out - many people would be too afraid or apathetic and ignore a situation like that. It will be interesting to hear the additional details. Hope the man is recovering well, and you're doing ok also.

[deadhippo]

hi guys
well i was surprised that so many helped out really
it restored some of my faith in the japanese public
but honestly hundreds of people must have heard the screams and only 3 or 4 people came to help
i went to the koban today and they told us that probably we couldnt get the mans name or address to protect the mans privacy and also because we werent interviewed by the police the wouldnt know our relationship to the victim
but they said as it wasnt in the papers today it probably wasnt too serious
i can only hope

If they are classed as NON-adults, they will probably get a stern warning and be sent home with their parents. As adults, probably do some jail time? I think that's what he ment?

Frank d. White is right. that is what i meant but i dont really know the laws in this regards

[epigene]

deadhippo's story reminded me of a house in our neighborhood.

One night about a year ago, I heard a woman scream outside and ran to the balcony of our condo on the fourth floor. I saw a middle-aged woman running barefoot in the street and screaming, "Yamete! (Stop it!) Hanashite! (Let me go!)." A man was also out in the street and shouting. I couldn't hear what he was saying. I couldn't see much because it was already dark, and there were only a couple of street lamps where they were. But from the looks of the situation, I imagined that a family in our neighborhood was being threatened by yakuza -- most likely loanshark who came banging at their door demanding repayment and maybe threatening to hurt them. A couple of police cars arrived several minutes later (called by a neighbor, it turned out). The police was there for a couple of hours. Everything became quiet after that.

Several weeks later, I learned at a jichikai (local community) meeting that the entire ruckus did not involved any outsiders! The son of the family (approaching 40) was beating up his mother and kicking his father! The parents had run out of the house barefoot! The ladies in my neighborhood knew the family for a long time and told me it wasn't the first time it happened. One of them even saw the son punching his father in the bike parking area of our condo building.

But the ladies were unanimous that the parents (especially the mother) are at fault. When the son was small, the mother just allowed him to do what he pleases -- no manners, no respect for other kids or people, no discipline. She would, for example, let him poke holes through the plastic wrapping of meats sold at the supermarket, open up boxes of crayons or the like inside a store and draw on the floor, etc., leaving without an offer to pay for the goods or show of regret or remorse. They said the parents only got what they deserve. They sympathized with the son, in a way, but wondered what will happen in the years ahead...

Today, the parents have left the house. The father appears to live in a nearby apartment. The mother does not show up at all, according to the ladies. The son lives amid garbage and unwashed clothes that he doesn't pick up from the floor. (I wonder where they get all that info?)

I think similar stories are behind sons and daughters in the news who kill their parents -- stories that I never heard decades ago when I was young. It's a problem about people who shouldn't be having children having them and something not unique to Japan, I think...

[Pachipro]

Very suspenseful story deadhippo. Thanks. I'm glad at least some people came to aid the man and woman as Japanese usually tend to "mind their own business" and stay out of these things.

I don't know if the law has changed recently, but I think that anyone under the age of 18 who commits a crime is still classified as a child. Unrulely Japanese teens, especially the bosozoku or chinpira types, always tended to make me a little nervous, especially when they are in a group. You never know what they are going to do.

[Rio Lee]

Thanks Frank for clearing that up

Originally Posted by epigene

....

I think similar stories are behind sons and daughters in the news who kill their parents -- stories that I never heard decades ago when I was young. It's a problem about people who shouldn't be having children having them and something not unique to Japan, I think...

Yep, not unique to Japan. We have a those cases of aggression over here too. Drug addict son beatup/kill parents for money to buy drugs as for example :/

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Epigene

But the ladies were unanimous that the parents (especially the mother) are at fault. When the son was small, the mother just allowed him to do what he pleases -- no manners, no respect for other kids or people, no discipline. She would, for example, let him poke holes through the plastic wrapping of meats sold at the supermarket, open up boxes of crayons or the like inside a store and draw on the floor, etc., leaving without an offer to pay for the goods or show of regret or remorse. They said the parents only got what they deserve.

Personally I am more inclined to agree with the neighbors that they probably did a poor job at teaching their son how to behave. I've demanded corrections of any unruly child or parents whose child could not behave in public - although I understood they were not happy to hear me say that.

What disturbs me was what some people told me; that some kids are just born that way - with either genetic difference causing some chemical condition that makes the child hyperactive or some other congenital condition (but not genetic) beyond all control. Could it have been that the man was one of those cases who are born that way but was not fortunate enough to get professional help ?

I've read about/seen very eccentric children born from excellent parents - either as weaklings or uncontrolably strong willed. Some turn out alright as they grow older, but some don't. I wonder if there is a way to get a clear cut diagnosis on such children who might show some sign of failed socialization in their adulthood ? Is there some medical information that parents can use to get help plan their child's socialization ?

[Limonette]

Have you seen the Supernanny? She can fix any kid! Yeah there are the wildest hyperactive screaminest, tantrum pulling, running out in traffic, sibling punching, mother kicking, cursing evil little kids, and she comes and straightens them out, and the children tearfully thank her afterwords. The parents don't know how to discipline - either give not enough discpline - or too much. Interestingly in these cases, just as with the Dog Whisperer, the problem does not stem from the child or the dog, but the parent or the owner. Teach the parents, and the child is ok. Personally, I think the Dog Whisperer (Cesar Milan - "People Training for Dogs") holds the key to all wisdom and knowledge. Sort of off topic, but I can't bring up Supernanny without Dog Whisperer - they are too connected. I think they're Superheros!

[kirei_na_me]

My sister-in-law's son choked my son one night while they were visiting. The grown-ups were sitting in my den looking at pictures on the computer, when I heard my middle son frantically say "Let him breathe, let him breathe!" I went in there, and all three of them told me that Taisei had his hands around my 4 year old's neck. Well, I knew they weren't lying, because he was looking really guilty and my son's neck was was still red. I wanted to get my hands on that child SOOOOO bad, but I didn't say one thing. I quietly got my son, came back into the den, and told my husband about it when we went to bed. He handled it and told his sister what happened. Her son eventually admitted it, but he was not punished appropriately, I don't think.

Don't get me started on the discipline problems I saw in that child while he was here. I saw him kick his grandparents, hit at his grandparents, throw stuff at them, yell at them, and have terrible temper tantrums. I would go as far as to say that child was purely mean. Other than the choking incident, he scratched the blood out of one of my sons and he would pinch and hit them constantly.

I was wanting to bring this up on the forum, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Besides, it upsets me to recall it anyway.

An older Japanese friend of mine told me that she thought Japanese kids were getting way worse than American kids. I didn't believe her until I witnessed our nephew's behavior. Horrible, and I mean horrible.

My husband got him talking, though, and found out that he is, of course, left at home by himself everyday. He is only eight years old. He told my husband that his father lets him do everything he wishes. The child was a ball of anger.

[Duo]

Originally Posted by kirei_na_me

My sister-in-law's son choked my son one night while they were visiting. The grown-ups were sitting in my den looking at pictures on the computer, when I heard my middle son frantically say "Let him breathe, let him breathe!" I went in there, and all three of them told me that Taisei had his hands around my 4 year old's neck. Well, I knew they weren't lying, because he was looking really guilty and my son's neck was was still red. I wanted to get my hands on that child SOOOOO bad, but I didn't say one thing. I quietly got my son, came back into the den, and told my husband about it when we went to bed. He handled it and told his sister what happened. Her son eventually admitted it, but he was not punished appropriately, I don't think.

Don't get me started on the discipline problems I saw in that child while he was here. I saw him kick his grandparents, hit at his grandparents, throw stuff at them, yell at them, and have terrible temper tantrums. I would go as far as to say that child was purely mean. Other than the choking incident, he scratched the blood out of one of my sons and he would pinch and hit them constantly.

I was wanting to bring this up on the forum, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Besides, it upsets me to recall it anyway.

An older Japanese friend of mine told me that she thought Japanese kids were getting way worse than American kids. I didn't believe her until I witnessed our nephew's behavior. Horrible, and I mean horrible.

My husband got him talking, though, and found out that he is, of course, left at home by himself everyday. He is only eight years old. He told my husband that his father lets him do everything he wishes. The child was a ball of anger.

I would take it back to old school and give that kid sm good old fashion *** WHOPINNNNNN, i do not advocate violence on kids, but smtimes is just necessary for discipline. I'm not into this time out sh*t or like go to the corner or ur room. Kids need to know who is in charge, and if they get as bad as that kid, chokin his cousins or watever, he should be taught a lil behaviour with spanky spanky, smtimes u just need to enforce negative reinforcment, or maybe is an outated way, but worked for me when i was growin up. of course i'm only saying this is necessary if like things are really extreme.

[lexico]

That was pretty bad what happened, Kirei. I really think your nephew needs to have proper child-sitting and proper discipline, because discipline alone might not work. If both parents are working, and they are not giving proper child care for many hours every day, it is no wonder the kid is having problems.

Originally Posted by Kirei Na Me

that he is, of course, left at home by himself everyday. He is only eight years old... The child was a ball of anger.

I think being left alone and the anger are somehow related...or rather, essentially related. When I was growing up, it was illegal to leave any child under 9 alone. Once my parents left me alone one evening when I was 7 or 8. At first I kept myself busy, but as the hours passed and my parents still didn't return it started getting pretty scary. After some heavy crying, I threw up the dinner I ate, and it was pure hell for me. I'm glad it never happened again esp. after reading about your nephew.

He told my husband that his father lets him do everything he wishes.

A lot of working parents feel guilty about leaving their children (with a baby sitter or not) and try to overcompensate for that. Angry and spoilt: it sounds like he needs a lot of real help rather than letting him have his way -- that is a bad deal for the kid. I hope they do something about it so next time you wouldn't have to worry about the same thing happening.

[kirei_na_me]

That makes a lot of sense, lexico. It puts things into perspective. My husband said much the same thing as you just have.

[Limonette]

I don't know the "naughty corner" or chair, step, room...works wonders for Supernanny. That is a time out type thing. She says it's important to be firm but never angry. I agree that alot of problems stem from neglect, and parents come home tired from work and don't have the energy to deal with it, esp. when they don't know how. Think of what a nicer place the world would be if parents could raise their children well - I think it would solve alot of problems.

[lexico]

... and someone also said if everyone were given a cookie and some warm miruku after lunch, and given a 20 minute nap to doze off to neverland, a lot of those fights and wars might not happen. Throw in an old, swaddling blanket while at it, and there's never a better place on earth !

On a more serious note, I really like the idea of siesta and la majnana practiced in the hotter countries. The idea of urgency needn't be there; just go with the "Bear necissities ~"

Often kids ask for something, and the parent will go to extremes to fill the need. Why not ask the child (if not a threatening need), "Can you (it) wait till I am done with this ?" That should take a lot of load off the parent, and teach the child patience, that a need might not be gratified instantly.

[deadhippo]

i think part of the problem is that there ias only one child these days
years ago jpaansese people had bigger families so if they did happen to both work there were at least brothers and sisters to take care of each other and keep each othre under control
one child might tell the other
mommy will me angry if you do that...etc
kids learn responsibility from each other faster than from their parents
of course if they have no TLC and discipline at home it may cause some problems
anyway i dont think its so healthy for kids to be left at home aloneday after day
on the other hand i spent a lot of time by myself when i was younger
and i think the only effect it had on me was to turn me into a shy teenager
but i grew out of that too

regarding the above story of epigene
i too agree with Lexico
those parents have to exercise some discipline
the other day there was this child running riot in my work place and i asked the receptionist if the mother couldnt control her
she said that wasnt the problem
the problem was that the mother didnt even try to control her