Improbable Japanese People

[Brooker]

No matter where you go you will always find people who just don't fit in, they defy the stereotypes. I've met a few Japanese people who had traits or characteristics that were completely opposite of my image of Japanese people. People are people, ne?

For example, after I completed my Japanese course in Japan, we all went out to dinner and karaoke with our teachers. As we were eating I noticed that one of my teachers could barely use chopsticks! A Japanese person, who grew up in Japan, and probably uses chopsticks everyday, couldn't use her chopsticks half as well as I! I jokingly asked her if she was really Japanese and she said that people often give her a hard time about it. There was nothing physically or mentally wrong with her so I'm not sure what the explanation for that could be.

Another example is that I've met a few Japanese people who hated sushi.

Has anyone else met any Japanese people who completely defy the stereotypes?

[ArmandV]

Well, many have heard stories of most Japanese being quiet and reserved in front of gaijin. A few months ago, a bunch of us went out to dinner in Chicago after our annual Godzilla convention was over. One our Japanese guests (who was first assistant director of Godzilla: Final Wars) was riding with us back to our hotel. The owner of the vehicle had a country & western station on. After an older country song (Hank Williams) finished playing, the guest let out a bunch of "Yee-haws!" That was a bit startling, but amusing.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Brooker

one of my teachers could barely use chopsticks! ... I'm not sure what the explanation for that could be.

Never undersetimate the power of the spork ! 12 yrs of continuous use can and will effectively erase any trace of chpostick aptitude; some people first exposed to the spork without proper chopstick training can never make it back; just like experienced maturbaters can suck major in the real thing !

Edit: The embarassment of chpostick illiteracy could have been avoided had her parents spent a little more money and bought her a three-piece lunch utensil. Three Piece Lunchware

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by ArmandV

Well, many have heard stories of most Japanese being quiet and reserved in front of gaijin. A few months ago, a bunch of us went out to dinner in Chicago after our annual Godzilla convention was over. One our Japanese guests (who was first assistant director of Godzilla: Final Wars) was riding with us back to our hotel. The owner of the vehicle had a country & western station on. After an older country song (Hank Williams) finished playing, the guest let out a bunch of "Yee-haws!" That was a bit startling, but amusing.

Interesting that you should mention Hank on his birthday.

[Harvey]

I know this Japanese guy, who 10 years ago, when he was 21, rode a bicycle from Calcutta India to Lisbon Portugal. The trip took him 1 year and he couldn't speak English at the time.

Blew my mind.

[Harvey]

Improbable. Reminds me of Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy

[ArmandV]

Originally Posted by mikecash

Interesting that you should mention Hank on his birthday.

Weird. I wasn't aware of it. Happy Birthday, Hank (wherever you are).

[Kara_Nari]

I have a lot of Japanese friends who cant use Chopsticks properly. Its difficult for　me to try and copy how they do it, but it just looks so awkward. It looks like they almost cup their hand over the end of the chopsticks, with the chopsticks jammed between their fingers, how they have any movement is beyond me.
One of my japanese friends doesnt eat meat, isnt married but lives by herself, and is in no way shy, timid or introverted. She has the most open mind of anyone I know.
I know Koreans who cant eat spicy food, and hate kimchi too.

[Maciamo]

Well, I'd say that in Belgium, many people tend to think of the Japanese as shy, prude, reserved, over-serious, quiet and who can't enjoy themselves. I was surprised to find out that it was the exact opposite for the majority, especially for prudeness (never seen less prude in the West), and about enjoying themselves. In Tokyo it seems that even working people go drinking, singing karaoke or partying almost every night (all regrouped under the generic term "asobu").

As for chopsticks, I complained a lot about being asked if I could use them, but I am realising more and more that an surprising number of Japanese can't use their chopsticks properly. It's strange to me, or my relatives who've visited me twice in Japan and got used to their chopsticks after just a few meals like me. Very ironic.

Another stereotype was that the Japanese were generally well-informed and good at using electronic gadgets, computers, etc. To my dismay, I found that most young people can barely use the Internet, and most people above 40 or 50 cannot even do that (which is rare in Belgium). A friend of mine who works for Intel told me that market studies in Japan, Europe and the US showed that of all the countries surveyed the Japanese were by far the less "geek", with the highest percentage of people who didn't know what was a CPU, never heard of Intel or had no idea what their PC's speed in MHz was.

These are all things that surprised me, some in a good way, others not.

[Kara_Nari]

I havent yet been asked if I can use chopsticks, but have been complimented on how I do use them. Also they assume that because my pronunciation is very good, that I am fluent in Japanese... heh, until they start chatting about politics, economy and everything that bores me, and I dont even make an effort to learn in English.
After being in Korea for the last 4 or 5 months, I guess I was expecting that there would be a bit more pushing when I came to Japan because of the population similarity... but NO, everyone is very un pushy, they even make way for you when riding a bicycle on the footpath.

[Mycernius]

I don't know whether this is on topic, but at the sushi restaurant in Birmingham they automatically give you chopsticks. They assume you know how to use them. They have never asked me whether I need a knife or fork. Mind you I can use chopsticks. I learnt at an early age. The only member of my family who can't is my mother

[Brooker]

Originally Posted by Mycernius

at the sushi restaurant in Birmingham they automatically give you chopsticks. They assume you know how to use them. They have never asked me whether I need a knife or fork.

It's almost impossible to eat sushi with a knife and fork. Even if you can't use chopsticks well, you're better off using them when it comes to sushi.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Here's something interesting. Sushi is apparently not "supposed" to be eaten with chopsticks, but rather with your bare hand. Also, you're not supposed to dip the rice-side into the soy sauce. This old timer sushi chef was telling us all this stuff last month when we went for dinner.
Japanese are "supposed" to be experts on this kind of thing, but nobody seems to know these rules. (Of course, I didn't either until last month!)

[ArmandV]

Okay, I'll bite. If you aren't "supposed" to dip the sushi in the soy sauce from the rice end, how else are you going to do it? The shape of the thing does not allow for easy holding with chopsticks. Is there some sort of guide book on proper sushi etiquette?

[Mikawa Ossan]

Unfortunately, all I know is what the sushi chef told me. But since, according to him, you should dip the "meat-end" into the soy sauce by hand and then eat it by hand. We did this, by the way, and it really felt strange, I must admit.

He told us about years ago, when people started dipping the "wrong end" into the soy sauce, many sushi chefs used to get angry at the clientel for this. Is this a true story? I don't really know, as I've never bothered to ask another sushi chef about this (I don't have sushi more than like once a month...)

If you speak enough Japanese and you're in Japan, talk to local sushi chefs! They have many interesting things to say!

[kirei_na_me]

I'd say my husband is a good example...well, in one way in particular.

He is chonan and comes from a pretty old-fashioned and "proper" Japanese family, however, he will not move back to "take care" of his parents. He rebelled against them when he came to live here, and he declared a long time ago, that he wouldn't return to Japan. I always heard that the oldest/only son would always move in with his parents to take care of them. I thought it was just a given, but he certainly proved me wrong.

To some, this may not seem like much, but it is definitely a big deal to other Japanese, especially his parents.

Also, I would say in general, things I've been proven wrong about the Japanese that I know personally, would include: they are not as polite as I thought they were "supposed" to be, they are not as intelligent(according to my definition) as I had always heard, their manners are not nearly as impeccable as I'd thought, and a few other little things that are not really important enough to mention.

[Brooker]

The only person I've ever seen eat sushi with their bare hands was some gaijin construction worker in Seattle. He looked like a complete slob while doing it. Not once have I ever seen a Japanese person eat sushi with their hands and I used to go out for sushi all the time in Japan.

[Uncle Frank]

good old George! He worked at the bar where I did in Fukuoka; never heard his real name, everyone just called him George. He was a Japanese version of Cheech & Chong; always stoned out of his mind. Back in the early 70's he sure stood out, smoked pot, popped pills, sniffed glue, and drank like a fish. He used to pour the little bit of booze left in the bottom of all the glasses into one to drink, ech! He had a large vocab of English, but made no sense, always too stoned. He would have fit right in at Woodstock, but sure was different for a Japanese guy in the early 70's.

Frank

[Brooker]

I've also seen Japanese people get very confrontational with each other. I saw some fairly nasty arguments in the open discussion room at the English school where I worked (although probably fewer than you'd find somewhere other than Japan).

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by Mycernius

I don't know whether this is on topic, but at the sushi restaurant in Birmingham they automatically give you chopsticks. They assume you know how to use them. They have never asked me whether I need a knife or fork.

Good one. I'd really want to see someone eat sushi with a knife and fork. Why not eat a banana with a knife and fork too. It would certainly be bette to take the sushi with your hands than with anything else but chopsticks !

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

Unfortunately, all I know is what the sushi chef told me. But since, according to him, you should dip the "meat-end" into the soy sauce by hand and then eat it by hand. We did this, by the way, and it really felt strange, I must admit.

He told us about years ago, when people started dipping the "wrong end" into the soy sauce, many sushi chefs used to get angry at the clientel for this.

I have never seen someone used their hand to eat sushi in Japan, so a lot of Japanese probably don't know the rules... As for diping the meat end, that is why I do instinctively. Good sushi-ya offer a piece of fish much longer than the rice, so dipping the end of it is quite easy. Otherwise, incline the sushi to the side to dip it in the soy sauce. Watch out, anago and unagi do not need soy sauce (there is usually another, sweeter sauce).

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Brooker

I've also seen Japanese people get very confrontational with each other. I saw some fairly nasty arguments in the open discussion room at the English school where I worked.

Here's a good one for follow up. How many Japanese does it take to decide on the right number of chopsticks to eat sushi with ?

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Why not eat a banana with a knife and fork too. It would certainly be better to take the sushi with your hands than with anything else but chopsticks !

Which is easier than having sushi with fork and knife; banana with chopsticks, or banana with fork and knife ?

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by kirei_na_me

He is chonan and comes from a pretty old-fashioned and "proper" Japanese family, however, he will not move back to "take care" of his parents. He rebelled against them when he came to live here, and he declared a long time ago, that he wouldn't return to Japan. I always heard that the oldest/only son would always move in with his parents to take care of them. I thought it was just a given, but he certainly proved me wrong.

Anyway, this tradition is disappearing among younger generations. I don't really know any Japanese in Tokyo up to their late 30's who really care about that. Of course, as you husband is from Gifu (right ?), attitudes may be more conservative there. So it's only normal he should rebel against the system after living abroad.

...they are not as polite as I thought they were "supposed" to be

Politeness tend to be superficial in Japan. When people first visit the country, they are amazed at how many "irasshaimase" and "arigatou gozaimashita" they get. But after a awhile, one can recognise more easily sincere politeness from artificial one. I have no doubt that there are many very kind and truly polite people in Japan, but what characterise better the majority is to be conventional and non-confrontational (which isn't the same as truly kind).

I am still surprised after 4 years at how money regulates relationships in Japan. It seems that people cannot interact without money. Japanese people don't expect to get something free from friends, apart from omiyage. Say, if you best friend is hairdresser, Westerners (not sure if it's in all countries though) might expect to get a free haircut, or at least a discount. If someone in your family is a doctor, Westerners won't expect to pay for the consultation. But this is almost unthinkable in Japan. People go and have their haircut at their friend's so that their friend can make money. They choose to go their relative's for a medical check, so that they can make money. They attend their friends wedding, and give them money (not presents). Everything always have to be about money. No wonder that there is this system of hostess bar in Japan (unknown to me before, although it might exist to an extend in the West), where men are happy to pay just for the company of the hostess and buy them present to "become their friends" (as if money could seal relationships so easily). This sounds just so lame and artificial to me. But there are so many places like that in Japan (we could also include the mama's bar called "snack"), that few working (and married) Japanese men (except very shy ones) have never been to one.

they are not as intelligent(according to my definition) as I had always heard.

Don't even get me started on that. Education in Japan is lamentable, and people are usually disinterested with learning for itself. Typical Japanese prefer what is easy, simple and cute. This strongly contradicts the image of high-tech and hard-working country ("long-working" would be more appropriate, or even "long at waiting in the office for the boss to finish his work and hanging with colleagues in bars after work, and so comes back home at 1am" type of society).

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by Brooker

I've also seen Japanese people get very confrontational with each other. I saw some fairly nasty arguments in the open discussion room at the English school where I worked (although probably fewer than you'd find somewhere other than Japan).

This, I still have to see after 4 years ! (except for drunken salarymen on Friday night, or mentally unstable old women or homeless talking alone in the street and suddenly insulting a passerby). If one stereotypes holds true for 99.9% of the Japanese I have met, it is that they are non-confrontational.

[Brooker]

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Politeness tend to be superficial in Japan. When people first visit the country, they are amazed at how many "irasshaimase" and "arigatou gozaimashita" they get. But after a awhile, one can recognise more easily sincere politeness from artificial one.

Being polite and kind are two very different things. I think being polite means acting nicely towards someone when you really don't want to. By this definition, the Japanese are very polite.

To me, being kind is being nice just because you want to.

This, I still have to see after 4 years ! (except for drunken salarymen on Friday night, or mentally unstable old women or homeless talking alone in the street and suddenly insulting a passerby). If one stereotypes holds true for 99.9% of the Japanese I have met, it is that they are non-confrontational.

Well to be honest, I only noticed it once. One student got angry with another about how much control he exerted over his girlfriend, accusing him of treating his girlfriend like a dog. When the conversation got heated, the accuser got up a left before things got worse. But it was a rather tense few moments. I just kind of let them go at it since I'd never witnessed such a thing before in Japan and kind of wanted to see how it turned out. On top of that, I liked that the students were talking for once, rather than just sitting there listening to me talk.