Colonialism rules

Boboo · Oct 24, 2005, 21:30

Colonialism rules

US bases had occupied whole Okinawa. May be they already consider this island to be their own colony?
Natives have been protesting against American presence for a long time and US military men don’t fly right ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...fic/842518.stm ). During recent negotiations Japanese government demanded to remove US air forces to Guam island and this problem had become rather a stumbling block.
Why Americans are so stubborn and don’t want to meet half-way? It turns out that those who’re crying that US prepare war against China are right. USA are just seeking casus belli (e.g. Beijing’s attempt of re-establishing rule over Taiwan). They’re ready even to use nuclear weapon ( http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/henokobay.htm ) and don’t want loosen their military grasp on southeast Asian region.

Tokyoite · Oct 25, 2005, 00:36

if they left okinawa, who could defend japan?
japan can't do themself because of the ninth article of the Japanese Constitution.
i also hate the fukin americans.
but the japanese must amend the ninth article and make japan a “normal” country, who can defend their territory for themself before kicking out the americans

Maciamo · Oct 25, 2005, 17:20

Not allowing the US to have troops in one's country almost means being labelled as an enemy of the USA by the US government. I explained in this thread that the US has troops stationed in 130 countries. Proportionally to the country's population, there are almost 3 times more US troops in Germany than in Japan. I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ? It's also quite hypocritical to have troops stationed in another country (like Japan in Iraq now) and complain that an ally has troops in your country.

名無し · Oct 29, 2005, 12:08

Originally Posted by Maciamo

I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ?

They are communist sympathizer activists posing "concerned citizens," sent from mainland Japan. The goal of those who talking about the possibility of Ryuku's independence from Japan is to kick out the US troops and have PLA "liberate" the area. In other words they want Okinawa to become next Tibet.

Japanese government knew that China wanted Okinawa. That was why they chose to host the G8 Summit there in Jul. 2000 instead of Tokyo or Kyoto.
Now the eight countries acknowledge that Okinawa is Japanese territory by VIPs' physical presence. It is said that Japan further teased China by sending an invitation letter to Jiang Zemin asking to be an observer participant, he had to decline it because accepting it meant that he admitted that Okinawa belonged to Japan.

senseiman · Oct 29, 2005, 13:14

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Not allowing the US to have troops in one's country almost means being labelled as an enemy of the USA by the US government. I explained in this thread that the US has troops stationed in 130 countries. Proportionally to the country's population, there are almost 3 times more US troops in Germany than in Japan. I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ? It's also quite hypocritical to have troops stationed in another country (like Japan in Iraq now) and complain that an ally has troops in your country.

Its important to note that its mostly Okinawans (as opposed to Japanese in general) who are doing the complaining. The statistics are a bit misleading because of the concentration of troops, if you were to figure out the proportionality of US troops stationed in Okinawa to the population of Okinawa it would probably be 100 times the concentration in Germany or any other country.

Maciamo · Oct 29, 2005, 14:22

Originally Posted by senseiman

The statistics are a bit misleading because of the concentration of troops, if you were to figure out the proportionality of US troops stationed in Okinawa to the population of Okinawa it would probably be 100 times the concentration in Germany or any other country.

Well yes, but then we could just look at a particular German state that has a lot of US troops. Look at the map of US troops in Germany. They are almost all in Rhineland-Palatinate, Saarland, North Bavaria and North Baden-Württemberg.

senseiman · Oct 30, 2005, 02:58

Yes, I know they are a bit concentrated in Germany too. I spent four years as a kid living in Ramstien, the largest US air base in Germany. That was in the 80s, and I can remember seeing quite a few protestors there too. The same problems happened there, I remember when I was eleven years old nearly being killed by an (Italian) air force jet that crashed in a ball of flames about 100 metres from where I was standing. About 70 German civilians were killed in that crash (it smacked right into a huge crowd), there was a pretty huge backlash after that.

Another thing is that the number of US troops in Germany (and troops from other countries as well) has dropped significantly since the end of the cold war whereas they haven't dropped at all in Okinawa.

bossel · Oct 30, 2005, 09:50

Originally Posted by senseiman

Yes, I know they are a bit concentrated in Germany too. I spent four years as a kid living in Ramstien, the largest US air base in Germany. That was in the 80s, and I can remember seeing quite a few protestors there too.

Except for the habitual anti-US left-wingers, most of these protesters were not protesting against the US presence per se, but against the 'double-track' decision from 12 December 1979.

The same problems happened there, I remember when I was eleven years old nearly being killed by an (Italian) air force jet that crashed in a ball of flames about 100 metres from where I was standing. About 70 German civilians were killed in that crash (it smacked right into a huge crowd), there was a pretty huge backlash after that.

Nah, I don't remember a huge backlash against US troops in Germany. There was a big debate, though, about the security during flight shows.

Another thing is that the number of US troops in Germany (and troops from other countries as well) has dropped significantly since the end of the cold war

& a lot of people are (& were) quite unhappy with that, mainly for the loss of employment opportunities & other economical factors.

senseiman · Oct 30, 2005, 11:08

Originally Posted by bossel

Except for the habitual anti-US left-wingers, most of these protesters were not protesting against the US presence per se, but against the 'double-track' decision from 12 December 1979.

Nah, I don't remember a huge backlash against US troops in Germany. There was a big debate, though, about the security during flight shows.

& a lot of people are (& were) quite unhappy with that, mainly for the loss of employment opportunities & other economical factors.

Yeah, I'm not saying the anti-base issue has ever been as big in Germany as it is in Okinawa, but it does exist.

Its true too about the jobs, when CFB Lahr closed in 1994 it really hurt the local economy.

I wouldn't say the backlash after the crash was huge, but there were protests at Ramstein if not elsewhere.

I'm not so sure the economic situation is the same in Okinawa. When I was there last March I visited the site of a former US military facility that had been handed back in the mid-90s and it was completely covered by new apartments and other developments. The land is just much scarcer and in higher demand in Okinawa, whereas the land in Lahr is still vacant ten years after the base closed.

DoctorP · Oct 30, 2005, 11:15

Originally Posted by senseiman

I'm not so sure the economic situation is the same in Okinawa. When I was there last March I visited the site of a former US military facility that had been handed back in the mid-90s and it was completely covered by new apartments and other developments. The land is just much scarcer and in higher demand in Okinawa, whereas the land in Lahr is still vacant ten years after the base closed.

Yes, but where does one get the money to pay for the rent in those new apartments and such? Okinawa is the poorest prefecture in Japan...The wealth from such land development is shared (IMHO) amongst only 2% of the population. That land should have been used to create businesses and jobs...instead they created short term construction jobs (mainly taken by people from mainland Japan or other Asian countries)...now what? The smart thing to do is to bring in industries....that brings jobs...that brings money to the people...which translates into growth. The Okinawans do not think that way!

senseiman · Oct 30, 2005, 12:49

Well, income inequalities are going to be there regardless of the bases. I'm not sure what kind of industries you would have them bring in...it is a small place after all. The construction jobs aren't the only ones, the place was bustling with activity -shops and office buildings were there too.

The island is pretty well suited for tourism, which is sort of helped by the Americans by the unique flavor their presence gives to the island (lots more 'authentic' American culture than on the main islands) but it is also hindered by the big ugly bases.

DoctorP · Oct 30, 2005, 13:07

Originally Posted by senseiman

Well, income inequalities are going to be there regardless of the bases. I'm not sure what kind of industries you would have them bring in...it is a small place after all. The construction jobs aren't the only ones, the place was bustling with activity -shops and office buildings were there too.

The island is pretty well suited for tourism, which is sort of helped by the Americans by the unique flavor their presence gives to the island (lots more 'authentic' American culture than on the main islands) but it is also hindered by the big ugly bases.

There is a large sports store there, a supermarket, and a few other shops...hardly what I would have done! Why don't they compete for manufacturing jobs? I'm sure they could hire many people for minimum wage to perform menial tasks! It would be much better than being unemployed or working 2-3 part time jobs right?

4321go · Nov 3, 2005, 22:49

Originally Posted by Tokyoite

if they left okinawa, who could defend japan?
japan can't do themself because of the ninth article of the Japanese Constitution.
i also hate the fukin americans.
but the japanese must amend the ninth article and make japan a “normal” country, who can defend their territory for themself before kicking out the americans

Who will threaten Japan? China ? Korea?

In the history ,neither of the two never invaded Japan! And what's the value of invade Japan ? no value at all .Japan is not a good place to invade! (joke)

So ,American can leave East Asia right now! no reasons for American troops to stay here!

nice gaijin · Nov 4, 2005, 04:01

Originally Posted by Boboo

Colonialism rules
...yadda yadda yadda...

Not to be inflammatory, but hey jackass, perhaps you could stick around this time and take place in the conversation you started instead of creating a new user name to restate the same thing in another thread you'll just abandon. I don't mind if you want to discuss the US forces in Japan, but these hit and run threads are obnoxious.

Sukotto · Nov 16, 2005, 07:00

$5 dvd on Okinawa while supplies last.
Produced by the people of Ginowan City.
At right of page.

http://www.jpri.org/

Oct 24, 2005, 21:30	#1
Boboo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 1	Colonialism rules Colonialism rules US bases had occupied whole Okinawa. May be they already consider this island to be their own colony? Natives have been protesting against American presence for a long time and US military men don’t fly right ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...fic/842518.stm ). During recent negotiations Japanese government demanded to remove US air forces to Guam island and this problem had become rather a stumbling block. Why Americans are so stubborn and don’t want to meet half-way? It turns out that those who’re crying that US prepare war against China are right. USA are just seeking casus belli (e.g. Beijing’s attempt of re-establishing rule over Taiwan). They’re ready even to use nuclear weapon ( http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/henokobay.htm ) and don’t want loosen their military grasp on southeast Asian region.

Oct 25, 2005, 00:36	#2
Tokyoite Junior Member Join Date: Oct 20, 2005 Location: Tokyo Age: 24 Posts: 12	if they left okinawa, who could defend japan? japan can't do themself because of the ninth article of the Japanese Constitution. i also hate the fukin americans. but the japanese must amend the ninth article and make japan a “normal” country, who can defend their territory for themself before kicking out the americans __________________

Oct 25, 2005, 17:20	#3
Maciamo Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Jul 17, 2002 Location: Austrasia Posts: 6,647	Not allowing the US to have troops in one's country almost means being labelled as an enemy of the USA by the US government. I explained in this thread that the US has troops stationed in 130 countries. Proportionally to the country's population, there are almost 3 times more US troops in Germany than in Japan. I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ? It's also quite hypocritical to have troops stationed in another country (like Japan in Iraq now) and complain that an ally has troops in your country. __________________ Over 100 destinations in the Japan Sightseeing Guide + detailed Tokyo Guide and Kyoto Guide Eupedia : Your Guide to Europe in English Read the "Maciamo FAQ" "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

Oct 29, 2005, 12:08	#4
名無し Regular Member Join Date: Mar 1, 2004 Posts: 566	Originally Posted by Maciamo I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ? They are communist sympathizer activists posing "concerned citizens," sent from mainland Japan. The goal of those who talking about the possibility of Ryuku's independence from Japan is to kick out the US troops and have PLA "liberate" the area. In other words they want Okinawa to become next Tibet. Japanese government knew that China wanted Okinawa. That was why they chose to host the G8 Summit there in Jul. 2000 instead of Tokyo or Kyoto. Now the eight countries acknowledge that Okinawa is Japanese territory by VIPs' physical presence. It is said that Japan further teased China by sending an invitation letter to Jiang Zemin asking to be an observer participant, he had to decline it because accepting it meant that he admitted that Okinawa belonged to Japan. Last edited by 名無し; Oct 30, 2005 at 10:42.

Oct 29, 2005, 13:14	#5
senseiman Regular Member Join Date: Jun 24, 2003 Location: canadian Age: 33 Posts: 801	Originally Posted by Maciamo Not allowing the US to have troops in one's country almost means being labelled as an enemy of the USA by the US government. I explained in this thread that the US has troops stationed in 130 countries. Proportionally to the country's population, there are almost 3 times more US troops in Germany than in Japan. I wonder why the Japanese are always the one everybody hear complaining about that. Does that mean that the average Japanese have more difficult to accept or socialise with foreigners than people in 129 other countries ? It's also quite hypocritical to have troops stationed in another country (like Japan in Iraq now) and complain that an ally has troops in your country. Its important to note that its mostly Okinawans (as opposed to Japanese in general) who are doing the complaining. The statistics are a bit misleading because of the concentration of troops, if you were to figure out the proportionality of US troops stationed in Okinawa to the population of Okinawa it would probably be 100 times the concentration in Germany or any other country.

Oct 29, 2005, 14:22	#6
Maciamo Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Jul 17, 2002 Location: Austrasia Posts: 6,647	Originally Posted by senseiman The statistics are a bit misleading because of the concentration of troops, if you were to figure out the proportionality of US troops stationed in Okinawa to the population of Okinawa it would probably be 100 times the concentration in Germany or any other country. Well yes, but then we could just look at a particular German state that has a lot of US troops. Look at the map of US troops in Germany. They are almost all in Rhineland-Palatinate, Saarland, North Bavaria and North Baden-Württemberg.

Oct 30, 2005, 02:58	#7
senseiman Regular Member Join Date: Jun 24, 2003 Location: canadian Age: 33 Posts: 801	Yes, I know they are a bit concentrated in Germany too. I spent four years as a kid living in Ramstien, the largest US air base in Germany. That was in the 80s, and I can remember seeing quite a few protestors there too. The same problems happened there, I remember when I was eleven years old nearly being killed by an (Italian) air force jet that crashed in a ball of flames about 100 metres from where I was standing. About 70 German civilians were killed in that crash (it smacked right into a huge crowd), there was a pretty huge backlash after that. Another thing is that the number of US troops in Germany (and troops from other countries as well) has dropped significantly since the end of the cold war whereas they haven't dropped at all in Okinawa.

Oct 30, 2005, 09:50	#8
bossel Regular Member Join Date: Sep 28, 2003 Location: germany Posts: 1,655	Originally Posted by senseiman Yes, I know they are a bit concentrated in Germany too. I spent four years as a kid living in Ramstien, the largest US air base in Germany. That was in the 80s, and I can remember seeing quite a few protestors there too. Except for the habitual anti-US left-wingers, most of these protesters were not protesting against the US presence per se, but against the 'double-track' decision from 12 December 1979. The same problems happened there, I remember when I was eleven years old nearly being killed by an (Italian) air force jet that crashed in a ball of flames about 100 metres from where I was standing. About 70 German civilians were killed in that crash (it smacked right into a huge crowd), there was a pretty huge backlash after that. Nah, I don't remember a huge backlash against US troops in Germany. There was a big debate, though, about the security during flight shows. Another thing is that the number of US troops in Germany (and troops from other countries as well) has dropped significantly since the end of the cold war & a lot of people are (& were) quite unhappy with that, mainly for the loss of employment opportunities & other economical factors.

Oct 30, 2005, 11:08	#9
senseiman Regular Member Join Date: Jun 24, 2003 Location: canadian Age: 33 Posts: 801	Originally Posted by bossel Except for the habitual anti-US left-wingers, most of these protesters were not protesting against the US presence per se, but against the 'double-track' decision from 12 December 1979. Nah, I don't remember a huge backlash against US troops in Germany. There was a big debate, though, about the security during flight shows. & a lot of people are (& were) quite unhappy with that, mainly for the loss of employment opportunities & other economical factors. Yeah, I'm not saying the anti-base issue has ever been as big in Germany as it is in Okinawa, but it does exist. Its true too about the jobs, when CFB Lahr closed in 1994 it really hurt the local economy. I wouldn't say the backlash after the crash was huge, but there were protests at Ramstein if not elsewhere. I'm not so sure the economic situation is the same in Okinawa. When I was there last March I visited the site of a former US military facility that had been handed back in the mid-90s and it was completely covered by new apartments and other developments. The land is just much scarcer and in higher demand in Okinawa, whereas the land in Lahr is still vacant ten years after the base closed.

Oct 30, 2005, 11:15	#10
DoctorP Regular Member Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 1,793	Originally Posted by senseiman I'm not so sure the economic situation is the same in Okinawa. When I was there last March I visited the site of a former US military facility that had been handed back in the mid-90s and it was completely covered by new apartments and other developments. The land is just much scarcer and in higher demand in Okinawa, whereas the land in Lahr is still vacant ten years after the base closed. Yes, but where does one get the money to pay for the rent in those new apartments and such? Okinawa is the poorest prefecture in Japan...The wealth from such land development is shared (IMHO) amongst only 2% of the population. That land should have been used to create businesses and jobs...instead they created short term construction jobs (mainly taken by people from mainland Japan or other Asian countries)...now what? The smart thing to do is to bring in industries....that brings jobs...that brings money to the people...which translates into growth. The Okinawans do not think that way!

Oct 30, 2005, 12:49	#11
senseiman Regular Member Join Date: Jun 24, 2003 Location: canadian Age: 33 Posts: 801	Well, income inequalities are going to be there regardless of the bases. I'm not sure what kind of industries you would have them bring in...it is a small place after all. The construction jobs aren't the only ones, the place was bustling with activity -shops and office buildings were there too. The island is pretty well suited for tourism, which is sort of helped by the Americans by the unique flavor their presence gives to the island (lots more 'authentic' American culture than on the main islands) but it is also hindered by the big ugly bases.

Oct 30, 2005, 13:07	#12
DoctorP Regular Member Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 1,793	Originally Posted by senseiman Well, income inequalities are going to be there regardless of the bases. I'm not sure what kind of industries you would have them bring in...it is a small place after all. The construction jobs aren't the only ones, the place was bustling with activity -shops and office buildings were there too. The island is pretty well suited for tourism, which is sort of helped by the Americans by the unique flavor their presence gives to the island (lots more 'authentic' American culture than on the main islands) but it is also hindered by the big ugly bases. There is a large sports store there, a supermarket, and a few other shops...hardly what I would have done! Why don't they compete for manufacturing jobs? I'm sure they could hire many people for minimum wage to perform menial tasks! It would be much better than being unemployed or working 2-3 part time jobs right?

Nov 3, 2005, 22:49	#13
4321go Happy Join Date: Jul 19, 2004 Posts: 356	Originally Posted by Tokyoite if they left okinawa, who could defend japan? japan can't do themself because of the ninth article of the Japanese Constitution. i also hate the fukin americans. but the japanese must amend the ninth article and make japan a “normal” country, who can defend their territory for themself before kicking out the americans Who will threaten Japan? China ? Korea? In the history ,neither of the two never invaded Japan! And what's the value of invade Japan ? no value at all .Japan is not a good place to invade! (joke) So ,American can leave East Asia right now! no reasons for American troops to stay here! __________________ http://it.icxo.com/100bbs/ (List of the best BBS in China) 答案是无畏! ^_^

Nov 4, 2005, 04:01	#14
nice gaijin Resident Realist Join Date: Aug 8, 2005 Posts: 3,688	Originally Posted by Boboo Colonialism rules ...yadda yadda yadda... Not to be inflammatory, but hey jackass, perhaps you could stick around this time and take place in the conversation you started instead of creating a new user name to restate the same thing in another thread you'll just abandon. I don't mind if you want to discuss the US forces in Japan, but these hit and run threads are obnoxious.

Nov 16, 2005, 07:00	#15
Sukotto Regular Member Join Date: Jul 9, 2003 Location: not Africa's great lakes region Age: 34 Posts: 761	$5 dvd on Okinawa while supplies last. Produced by the people of Ginowan City. At right of page. http://www.jpri.org/ __________________ check out this awesome shirt. If You're Really a Goth, Where Were You When We Sacked Rome? no, i got nothing against goths. just think the shirt is neat.

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