Confused with Kanji? HELP IS HERE!

[Gaijinian]

Kanji may seem confusing... For example, you may learn the kanji, 話, is "hanashimasu," but then... it is "wa" in 電話... So, why?

Well, as you may know, most Japanese words came from Chinese words (denwa in Chinese DianHua, with the same "kanji."). The word "hua" means "to speak" in Chinese. So, the Japanese applied it to their own word, "to speak," hanashimasu. "Hanashimasu" is know as the kun-yomi, or the Japanese reading.

When the word "denwa" was made, the Japanese did not have their own word for it, so the used the Chinese word (spelt out in hiragana. So, dian became DEN (electricity), and hua became WA, to speak. This is called the ON-YOMI, or the Chinese reading.

In combinations, the ON-YOMI is generally used. That is why, for example, 高校 uses KOU, and not takai. If there is hiragana in the word however, the on-yomi is used (ex: 食べ物 is tabemono, both are kun-yomi readings.)

Sometimes, there will be a small "tsu." This may seem confusing, also. Why is it 学校 (gakkou, with a small tsu), but also 学生(gakusei, no tsu)??
In Japanese, if two hard consonants follow each other, the first is changed into a small tsu:
By hard consonants, I mean:
Hiragana that start with b, d, g, j, k, n (not including ん), t, , w, y and z.

I hope that gives you some idea as to why Japanese is the way it is.

みなさん、日本語のべんきょう　を　がんばって　くだ さい！！

[Mikawa Ossan]

Many kanji have both a Japanese reading and one or several Chinese readings. The Japanese reading is called "kun-yomi" and the Chinese readings are called "on-yomi". The trick is to know when to use which reading.

Gaijinian gave a good basic guide, that kanji in combination are generally read with on-yomi. Of course, there are many exceptions. It wouldn't be fun otherwise!

Kudos to Gaijinian!

BTW, I was under the impression that 電話 is one of the few words that originated in Japan but then got "exported" to China. Am I wrong?

[Gaijinian]

Your right..
Yes, I had a few... technicalities in my post... But that was not the point..

Things I forgot:
～つ、～ち when followed by k s t h - note in particular that h becomes p.
as in やっぱり
～く、～き when followed by k.
As in　楽器 gakki

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by Gaijinian

Your right..
Yes, I had a few... technicalities in my post... But that was not the point..

LMAO! That's just awesome.

[Gaijinian]

I just used denwa because it was one of the first words I learned. I came back to edit it, realizing it might be a 和製漢語... But, I was too late...

[GoldCoinLover]

Originally Posted by Gaijinian

Kanji may seem confusing... For example, you may learn the kanji, 話, is "hanashimasu," but then... it is "wa" in 電話... So, why?
Well, as you may know, most Japanese words came from Chinese words (denwa in Chinese DianHua, with the same "kanji."). The word "hua" means "to speak" in Chinese. So, the Japanese applied it to their own word, "to speak," hanashimasu. "Hanashimasu" is know as the kun-yomi, or the Japanese reading.
When the word "denwa" was made, the Japanese did not have their own word for it, so the used the Chinese word (spelt out in hiragana. So, dian became DEN (electricity), and hua became WA, to speak. This is called the ON-YOMI, or the Chinese reading.
In combinations, the ON-YOMI is generally used. That is why, for example, 高校 uses KOU, and not takai. If there is hiragana in the word however, the on-yomi is used (ex: 食べ物 is tabemono, both are kun-yomi readings.)
Sometimes, there will be a small "tsu." This may seem confusing, also. Why is it 学校 (gakkou, with a small tsu), but also 学生(gakusei, no tsu)??
In Japanese, if two hard consonants follow each other, the first is changed into a small tsu:
By hard consonants, I mean:
Hiragana that start with b, d, g, j, k, n (not including ん), t, , w, y and z.
I hope that gives you some idea as to why Japanese is the way it is.
みなさん、日本語のべんきょう　を　がんばって　くだ さい！！

Thanks I knew about kanji but I didn't know if when using hiragana you had to switch to kun reading. Ugghh.

Nice post by the way. Always wondered about the dang small tsu. By the way, is sumimasen pronouced as "sue - me - ma - sen" or 'tsumimasen'? Becaues I heard the 'tsu ' is pronounced and the t is silent more like 'sunami'?

[Gaijinian]

Hey GCL, welcome back.
す; yes, "Sue" (as in the name, not a demand to "suck"/吸う").

[doinkies]

Originally Posted by GoldCoinLover

Thanks I knew about kanji but I didn't know if when using hiragana you had to switch to kun reading. Ugghh.
Nice post by the way. Always wondered about the dang small tsu. By the way, is sumimasen pronouced as "sue - me - ma - sen" or 'tsumimasen'? Becaues I heard the 'tsu ' is pronounced and the t is silent more like 'sunami'?

There is no tsu in すみません. In Japanese, it is pronounced exactly how it looks; "sue-me-mah-sen" (sorry for the doinky phonetic spelling, but I'm not exactly a master at the IPA ^^;;).
For that matter, sometimes there will be exceptions to the "small tsu" rule, for instance, the name of the publisher 小学館. It can be pronounced as either しょうがくかん or しょうがっかん. 小学館 themselves will call themselves "Shogakukan" on their website (romanized that way) and most Westerners call them Shogakukan...and yet in their books (for instance, in an ad in the back of one manga that was published by them), if there is furigana for the company name, the furigana will most of the time be しょうがっかん! This leads me to think that the original pronunciation of 小学館 was しょうがっかん but that many people, especially gaijin whose Japanese was not all that good, would read it as しょうがくかん by mistake, and so 小学館 began using that pronunciation in the West. But many Japanese people call them しょうがくかん too.
However, exceptions to the small tsu rule are quite rare, except in that case.

[kumo]

Originally Posted by doinkies

There is no tsu in すみません. In Japanese, it is pronounced exactly how it looks; "sue-me-mah-sen" (sorry for the doinky phonetic spelling, but I'm not exactly a master at the IPA ^^;;).
For that matter, sometimes there will be exceptions to the "small tsu" rule, for instance, the name of the publisher 小学館. It can be pronounced as either しょうがくかん or しょうがっかん. 小学館 themselves will call themselves "Shogakukan" on their website (romanized that way) and most Westerners call them Shogakukan...and yet in their books (for instance, in an ad in the back of one manga that was published by them), if there is furigana for the company name, the furigana will most of the time be しょうがっかん! This leads me to think that the original pronunciation of 小学館 was しょうがっかん but that many people, especially gaijin whose Japanese was not all that good, would read it as しょうがくかん by mistake, and so 小学館 began using that pronunciation in the West. But many Japanese people call them しょうがくかん too.
However, exceptions to the small tsu rule are quite rare, except in that case.

I have noticed something similar with the 十二国記 novels. 広辞苑第五版 gives こっき as the right reading:
こっき【国記】
聖徳太子らが編集したという国史の書。今は伝わらない 。
But the official site is http://www.12kokuki.com/. My Japanese teacher said she would normally read it as こっき, but then again she reads 洗濯機 as せんたっき... Maybe both readings are correct?

[doinkies]

With 十二国記, since the episode previews for the anime always have the announcer say じゅうにこっき, doinkies also reads it じゅうにこっき and romanizes it as Juuni Kokki. I've never heard "kokuki" before; doinkies wonders where that reading came from.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

The dispute of the reading of "十二国記" was also Japan.
http://mokemo.fssdp.com/12/12infoBoa...617&rev=1&no=0

[doinkies]

For that matter, Hiroyuki Nagashima-san...do you pronounce 小学館 as しょうがくかん, or しょうがっかん? XD

[nice gaijin]

When I saw 小学館 I thought of 奨学金, neither have an elongated consonant, I think. It'd be nice to know if there's a rule for when do to this, and when to have sound changes (like k to g, h to b or p, etc). I'm getting to a point where "it just sounds more natural," but as someone who likes to explain things, that's not very satisfactory.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Originally Posted by doinkies

For that matter, Hiroyuki Nagashima-san...do you pronounce 小学館 as しょうがくかん, or しょうがっかん? XD

My pronunciation
「しょうがっかん」です　
However, I become 0 cases when I search it in "しょうがっかん".
「検索のコツ」
http://www.oys.co.jp/books/kotsu/kotsu.htm

web translation
http://infoseek.amikai.com/amiweb/br...&c_id=infoseek

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Spoken language and the written language.

Actual pronunciation differs from the reading Japanese syllabary delicately.

http://www.gengokk.co.jp/hanashi.htm
web translation
http://infoseek.amikai.com/amiweb/br...&c_id=infoseek

[doinkies]

Ah, so people say "Shougakkan" but read it "Shougakukan"? I guess that makes sense, but that doesn't really explain the ad for another Shogakukan book in a Shogakukan book I have. The ad has furigana, and the company name at the bottom has furigana too and that furigana clearly states しょうがっかん and not しょうがくかん. Maybe it was a mistake?