A rant - US forces in Japan, and opinion on the US in General

[zeroyon]

I know its a bit of a long read, but please give me some insight and comments on my thoughts:

Since this is the "US Forces in Japan" forum.. i'll start with that topic.

I believe that US forces in Japan are still absolutely necessary with the current crisis with North Korea and China's threats to Taiwan. Although some US military servicemen do commit crimes, the presence of the forces in Japan do a lot more good than bad, most of which have been pointed out already in other threads (allows japan to spend on other important things besides military, strengthens ties with the USA and its economy, adds huge stability to the reigon (if the USA pulls out, Japan has to increase its military size, which will EXTREMELY aggrivate Korea and China), etc, etc).

I DO believe that some reduction in the forces there is necessary as well though. The current trend around the world is a generally anti-USA and anti-US armed forces one, and even though the crimes and bad things the forces do are not getting any worse, unrest with the military forces is. To try and relieve some of the pressure, I think that the USA should shut down some of its less used and less important US bases in Japan. Also, the cold war is long gone, and I can understand why a country and its people would want foreign military bases and its personell out of its country. It seems like it might feel to some people in other countries that live near USA bases that the USA is "intruding" on their soil.

Maybe there could be a vote in Japan weither to keep the USA forces or not? Or maybe one was already contemplated, but the Japanese government wants the USA's support far too much and would never let such a vote happen? Who knows?

Its an odd situation currently with the USA and its forces, take Taiwan for example. From what i've heard, the majority of the Taiwan population doesn't like the US forces, and as with China (and the rest of the world), the USA in general.

...but China has repeatedly stated that if the USA pulls out of the area and won't protect Taiwan incase of an attack (which would most likely happen if the US forces pulled out of Okinawa or all of Japan), then China would take back Taiwan by military force, which the Taiwan people DEFINATELY don't want. Odd...

Same thing with South Korea too. The majority of South Korea (or Corea, however you want to spell it) wants the US forces out, but if the US forces pull out, there is a pretty good chance that Kim Jong Il will send his forces back into South Korea, since the two Koreas STILL ARE techincally at war with each other. The South Korean people obviously don't want this, but most South Koreans do want to have a "peaceful" reunification with North Korea. How do they expect to have this peaceful reunification with power-hungry Kim and no USA to help them from being pulverized (or at the very least, heavily damaged)? I'm not saying that North Korea would definately invade South Korea if the USA pulled out, but it would most likely not help the situation.
Odd...

From my personal experiences of being born in the USA but growing up and living in Canada most of my life, I couldn't believe the amount of US-hatred that was all around me while I was living in Canada. If people found out that I was an american, they would almost always instantly hate me without ever getting to know me, and keep that grudge against me no matter what. People would say things like "America should burn in hell" and "we don't need america, they are worthless and the world would be better off without those *insert swear word here*" all the time when the subject of the USA would be brought up. All of these people have also probably never personally had an American do anything negative to them in any way, and also don't live near any USA bases (there are none in Canada IIRC). Of course most of these people fail to realize that the USA is by far Canada's biggest trading partner, provides a lot of its defence, and is a major factor in the economy and stability of Canada. Vice versa as well (except for the defence part).

Its not to say that all people in Canada hate the USA, but there is definately a majority of anti-USA-ness there. Its also not to say that the USA is all hugs and kisses and does no wrong, the USA gov't does MANY bad things, but the government, and especially the country as a whole, hardly diserves most of the flak it gets.

I know this was kinda a huge rant... but I just wanted to get this out there and see what responses I get (good or bad)

[nurizeko]

From what ive read, the American and canadian trade balance isnt really equal, infact the US has abused wood exports or something by canada?.

Anyway the United states has a habit of ignoring niternational law and treaties, and deciding entirely itself large actions against sovreign countries with far reaching consiquences, all the while the american people continue their lives, content to watch the news as their armed forces turn another foreign city to chaos and anarchy.

People hate the US because it isnt subtle in any sense of the word, and it behaves entirely at its own will, its unpredictable, its attitude changing with every successfive presidency, from global friend and peacemaker to crusader kingdom.

Some would say this is just the way super-powers behave, and the US doesnt have a empire by territorial standards, like the old colonial empires of old, and maybe its true, but the fact america not only sticks its finger in everyones pie, but whips it about and takes a huge chunk with it is bound to cause people aggro the world over.

Americans used to hate being hated for their crude sledgehammer foreign policies, now they just hate foreigners back directly.

Start of the slippery slope, but, no empire last forever, eventually its so loathed and dispised the contempt towards it seems to exert a force which causes collapse itself.

[Jim Hodges]

I dont think US Forces should leave. Although there have been problems the forces there also do much good.

[Minty]

Originally Posted by zeroyon

I know its a bit of a long read, but please give me some insight and comments on my thoughts:
Since this is the "US Forces in Japan" forum.. i'll start with that topic.
I believe that US forces in Japan are still absolutely necessary with the current crisis with North Korea and China's threats to Taiwan. Although some US military servicemen do commit crimes, the presence of the forces in Japan do a lot more good than bad, most of which have been pointed out already in other threads (allows japan to spend on other important things besides military, strengthens ties with the USA and its economy, adds huge stability to the reigon (if the USA pulls out, Japan has to increase its military size, which will EXTREMELY aggrivate Korea and China), etc, etc).
I DO believe that some reduction in the forces there is necessary as well though. The current trend around the world is a generally anti-USA and anti-US armed forces one, and even though the crimes and bad things the forces do are not getting any worse, unrest with the military forces is. To try and relieve some of the pressure, I think that the USA should shut down some of its less used and less important US bases in Japan. Also, the cold war is long gone, and I can understand why a country and its people would want foreign military bases and its personell out of its country. It seems like it might feel to some people in other countries that live near USA bases that the USA is "intruding" on their soil.
Maybe there could be a vote in Japan weither to keep the USA forces or not? Or maybe one was already contemplated, but the Japanese government wants the USA's support far too much and would never let such a vote happen? Who knows?
Its an odd situation currently with the USA and its forces, take Taiwan for example. From what i've heard, the majority of the Taiwan population doesn't like the US forces, and as with China (and the rest of the world), the USA in general.
...but China has repeatedly stated that if the USA pulls out of the area and won't protect Taiwan incase of an attack (which would most likely happen if the US forces pulled out of Okinawa or all of Japan), then China would take back Taiwan by military force, which the Taiwan people DEFINATELY don't want. Odd...
Same thing with South Korea too. The majority of South Korea (or Corea, however you want to spell it) wants the US forces out, but if the US forces pull out, there is a pretty good chance that Kim Jong Il will send his forces back into South Korea, since the two Koreas STILL ARE techincally at war with each other. The South Korean people obviously don't want this, but most South Koreans do want to have a "peaceful" reunification with North Korea. How do they expect to have this peaceful reunification with power-hungry Kim and no USA to help them from being pulverized (or at the very least, heavily damaged)? I'm not saying that North Korea would definately invade South Korea if the USA pulled out, but it would most likely not help the situation.
Odd...

I think the Taiwanese don't know what they want so they prefer the status quo. I feel the South Koreans don't see North Koreans the same way the Americans see them. I think I saw a report somewhere nowadays the South Koreans and working closely with China with the North Korean issues.

The US forces in South Korea and Japan is to contain China, I don't think they will just leave, it's too risky for the US and Japan.

From my personal experiences of being born in the USA but growing up and living in Canada most of my life, I couldn't believe the amount of US-hatred that was all around me while I was living in Canada. If people found out that I was an american, they would almost always instantly hate me without ever getting to know me, and keep that grudge against me no matter what. People would say things like "America should burn in hell" and "we don't need america, they are worthless and the world would be better off without those *insert swear word here*" all the time when the subject of the USA would be brought up. All of these people have also probably never personally had an American do anything negative to them in any way, and also don't live near any USA bases (there are none in Canada IIRC). Of course most of these people fail to realize that the USA is by far Canada's biggest trading partner, provides a lot of its defence, and is a major factor in the economy and stability of Canada. Vice versa as well (except for the defence part).
Its not to say that all people in Canada hate the USA, but there is definately a majority of anti-USA-ness there. Its also not to say that the USA is all hugs and kisses and does no wrong, the USA gov't does MANY bad things, but the government, and especially the country as a whole, hardly diserves most of the flak it gets.
I know this was kinda a huge rant... but I just wanted to get this out there and see what responses I get (good or bad)

I am wondering do Canadians dislike French. Not counting people of Quebec of course, how about Americans? The stuff I have read on the net over the years are quite negative but not sure whether it is a good idea to judge from there. But considering in this forum people are decent so I am asking, do they.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I really doubt that Japan and China will go to war with each other, wether there are american troops between them or not- there is little financial or political interest in doing such a thing for either of the countries.

But america has started pulling out its marines out of japan anyway, due to funding and general lack of solidiers issues with the Iraq war. There was a dispute between japan and china about this recently over who would pay what portions of the costs of moving the troops;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4937494.stm

... ... ...

[Carlson]

i was about to come in here and bi$ch slap someone. but i guess i dont have to. Atleast someone supports us over here.

btw you guys read that they will be moving all the marines from okinawa at a cost of 13 billion. and Tokyo plans to pay %60 of that.

[changedonrequest]

Originally Posted by Carlson

btw you guys read that they will be moving all the marines from okinawa at a cost of 13 billion. and Tokyo plans to pay %60 of that.

Actually not ALL the Marines only about 8,000 of them and the cost to Japan for the movement would be roughly 3 billion dollars.

[Carlson]

well damn Stars and Strips can never get anything right. lol. Atleast is still warm in Guam for those 8000. to bad its going to turn that island into crap.

[changedonrequest]

Originally Posted by Carlson

well damn Stars and Strips can never get anything right. lol. Atleast is still warm in Guam for those 8000. to bad its going to turn that island into crap.

Actually I feel pretty sorry for the people of Guam. They really don't have a whole lot to say in the matter and they are going to get stuck with a bunch of young Marines.

In a way, at least to me anyway, the US Government expecting the Japanese government to pay anything at all for the relocation sounds like extortion. You don't pay we don't move.

We are still going to be stuck with a huge number of US military people here on Okinawa and they probably aren't going to be relocated in my lifetime.

[DoctorP]

around 8,000 Marines at $6.3 Billiion. They are not all young Marines, quite a few will be older and many will be married.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for Guam, They will get quite a few jobs out of the deal, not to mention numerous other benefits. They are already a U.S. territory, it only makes sense to move some Marines there. Hell, they would've been accepted as a state by now, but the citizens of Guam know that they get much more Federal aid as a territory without all of the burdens of being a state.

[zeroyon]

Originally Posted by CC1

around 8,000 Marines at $6.3 Billiion. They are not all young Marines, quite a few will be older and many will be married.
I wouldn't feel too sorry for Guam, They will get quite a few jobs out of the deal, not to mention numerous other benefits. They are already a U.S. territory, it only makes sense to move some Marines there. Hell, they would've been accepted as a state by now, but the citizens of Guam know that they get much more Federal aid as a territory without all of the burdens of being a state.

also, 50 is a nice round number, and it will cost a lot to add an extra star to all of those american flags

[zeroyon]

Originally Posted by nurizeko

From what ive read, the American and canadian trade balance isnt really equal, infact the US has abused wood exports or something by canada?.
Anyway the United states has a habit of ignoring niternational law and treaties, and deciding entirely itself large actions against sovreign countries with far reaching consiquences, all the while the american people continue their lives, content to watch the news as their armed forces turn another foreign city to chaos and anarchy.
People hate the US because it isnt subtle in any sense of the word, and it behaves entirely at its own will, its unpredictable, its attitude changing with every successfive presidency, from global friend and peacemaker to crusader kingdom.
Some would say this is just the way super-powers behave, and the US doesnt have a empire by territorial standards, like the old colonial empires of old, and maybe its true, but the fact america not only sticks its finger in everyones pie, but whips it about and takes a huge chunk with it is bound to cause people aggro the world over.
Americans used to hate being hated for their crude sledgehammer foreign policies, now they just hate foreigners back directly.
Start of the slippery slope, but, no empire last forever, eventually its so loathed and dispised the contempt towards it seems to exert a force which causes collapse itself.

.... you do realize that the UK's armed forces are in Iraq too, you know?

Most people are not content in the USA with president Bush invading Iraq, his approval ratings are at around 35% now. I surely didn't vote for him in the elections, and the only reason I could see that he got elected again is because the other person running against him (John Kerry) is almost as big of an idiot.

Also, please don't generalize a population of almost 300,000,000. All of us don't hate foreigners, and we all aren't as bloodthirsty as you might think. I'm not trying to tell you to love the USA, you can hate America all you want, but please reevaluate your comments for their veracity before posting them on the forums. Thank you.

Sorry for the double post.