Tell me about "where"

[shot]

I'm curious about "where" as in:

"I once read where people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping."

Can that "where" be interpreted as something like "somewhere that"?

Is it usable in general conversation in every part of the United States?

If not, is that kind of a lingo/brogue in some particular area?

Thanks, in advance.

[nice gaijin]

to say "I once read somewhere that" gives the impression that you came across this fact somewhere, perhaps unexpectedly.

I had to read your sample sentence several times to myself to see if it struck that chord that says "this isn't right." While it doesn't sound wrong, I think this use of "where" is probably less acceptable, and it doesn't give the same impression that "somewhere that" does. I would probably stick to "somewhere that," but in casual conversation most Americans would get the gist of your meaning, and probably wouldn't recognize "where" as a grammatical mistake.

Hope that helps.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by shot

I'm curious about "where" as in:
"I once read where people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping."

"I once read that people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping" is clearer I think than trying to insert 'somewhere' which the listener already knows since the information obviously had to come from somewhere.

[shot]

I really appreciate your quick responses, Nice Gaijin&Elizabeth.

I think I was being a bit too grammar-minded, that is, I was wondering if that "where" was not used as a relative adverb in the sentence.

I still do not understand why some people say "where" instead of "that."

If you have any idea, do let me know, please.

[nice gaijin]

Originally Posted by shot

I still do not understand why some people say "where" instead of "that."
If you have any idea, do let me know, please.

could you give us some examples?

[shot]

Ex.1 I once read in some magazine article that the Japanese never eat
noodles without slurping.

Ex.2 I once read in some magazine article according to which the Japanese
never eat noodles without slurping.

Ex.3 I once read in some magazine article where the Japanese never eat
noodles without slurping.

Ex.4 I once read where the Japanese never eat noodles without slurping.

Of the four examples shown above, Ex.1 and Ex.2 is quite understandable to me, whereas "where" in Ex.3 is not. Does Ex.3 make sense?

Might it be possible to parapharase the whole sentence like, " I once read in some magazine article in which the Japanese never eat the Japanese noodles without slurping"? If possiblle grammartically, then that sentence reads like "I once read in some magazine article and in that article the Japanese never eat noodles without slurping." Doesn't that sound strange?


In Ex.4, if I can regard "where," which looks like a relative adverb without an antecedent, as sort of a replcament of conjunction "that," it seems to me that the whole sentence makes good sense. But I wonder why "where" can substitute "that" in this way. If "where" is exactly the same in meaning as "that," why is it that some people try to use "where" instead of "that"?

Is there any specific area where "where" is used that way or people familiar with that usage in "where"?


Perhaps I should be a little bit confused again, but if you helped me understand that "where" grammartically, it would be greatly appreciated.


















"that" used in Ex.1 is not a relative pronoun but a conjunction, right?

[Nicky]

Ex.4 kind of gives me the impression that you read about a specific place where the japanese "never eat noodles without slurping".

I hope that makes sense.

[cpaw88]

I thought I would post a reply even though you have gained a lot of help.

Where = Bob said " Where is my good friend ? "
Such as he is missing, or another example is lets say you loose your keys.

"Where are my keys?"

Now don't get confused with were and where, even people who speak english as a 1st lang. get confused.

Were = " Where were you last night ? "

English is kinda of a slopply lang. and a bit dumb at times. Here's an example.

(There is a law that you cannot ride without a bike helmet on)

1. One person is riding on his bike down the road.
2. The cops tell him why isn't his helmet on his head.
3. The person says, "The law states you must have a bike helmet with me, I have it straped on my leg".
4. The cop thefore cannot ticket the biker.


Now this is a true story as well. In the english lang. you will find somethings people say that arn't too direct or that could mean about a billion of things.

Such as saying.

Bob: "Do you think I'm good at math?"
James "Sure"

This could mean a number of things.
1. Sure as in, "yea you stink..."
2. Sure as in, "you are good at math"
3. Sure as in, "you don't really care to fully answer the question so you give a very vague respones."


Well good luck on your journy to learning English.

[Kinsao]

Your example sentence: "I once read where people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping."

That is actually not a 'correct' sentence in English.

Someone might say it casually, if they are chatting in a lazy way, as one does, and not paying attention to grammar. But there's no grammatical rule about using 'where' in this context because technically speaking it is 'wrong'.

It would be correct to say: "I once read that people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping."
or:
"I once read somewhere, that people in Japan never eat noodles without slurping." (If you want to stress the fact that you can't remember where you read it.)

I think the use of 'where' in casual conversation is just a result of the speaker's mind jumping to the (not well-remembered) place, and in normal conversation one doesn't always pay attention to whether it is really grammatically correct!

[claytonian]

no comma seems necessary between "somewhere" and "that" in your example correct sentence. Also "that" seems unnecessary as well.

[Bucko]

shot, you live in Nara so I assume you're Japanese, right? Wow, your English is really good. Damn good. Got any tips that I can give to my students here in Osaka? Most of them can't even use the third person singular verb even after a year of study.

[Kinsao]

Originally Posted by claytonian

no comma seems necessary between "somewhere" and "that" in your example correct sentence. Also "that" seems unnecessary as well.

Yes, I know that no comma is necessary. I put one in to try and indicate where the emphasis comes in the sentence. Without it, it could look a little confusing as an explanation, I think.

Yeah, you could use 'somewhere' on its own too, although I'd put the comma in if I was not using the 'that'.