Moral courage

thomas · May 11, 2002, 00:50

Japan ups pressure on China to hand over N Korean defectors

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=215078

Jesus, I have just seen that video, what a shame. Consular workers even handed caps back to the intruding policemen.

thomas · May 11, 2002, 03:46

Related MOFA statement

=> http://www.mofa.go.jp/announce/press/2002/5/0510.html

tosh · May 12, 2002, 00:06

It might turn out to be a hot summer. And as for the defectors, well... -sympathies.

deborah gormley · May 12, 2002, 09:23

Havent seen video, got the story from your recommended site, and the consular workers should have done more, as tosh says, as for the defecters, sympathies.

tosh · May 12, 2002, 09:33

On the subject of the Chinese. I get France2 with English subtitles in my area (lucky me), and i just saw an amazing story. According to the news, Chinese villagers in the Henan province had been selling their blood, which was sent through a common centrifuge, poisening them and subsequently anyone who recieved a transfusion, with HIV. -Now thats really scary.

thomas · May 14, 2002, 21:18

Update:

China refuses to hand over N Korean asylum seekers

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=215539

"...claiming they acted with Japan's consent so as to assure the security of the Japanese diplomatic facility..."

Reminds me of summer '89 when East Germans flooded the West German embassies in Prague and Budapest which initiated the downfall of the GDR. China might be afraid of something similar taking place in the PRK.

Taken from JT's message board:

"...The Chinese armed officers risked their lives for the security of Japanese consulate when they took away those unidentified intruders. If the Chinese armed police soldiers had not blocked this kind of people from intruding into the consulate, who knows what would happen..."

moyashi · May 14, 2002, 22:23

Japan's reactions are a little late.

Allowing foreign nationals police/military into a consulate is a bad precedent.

Gee and what just happened in Lima, Peru recently.

Great job !!!

Apparently, this procedure isn't in the manual. Another thoughtful oversight. ughhh

thomas · May 15, 2002, 04:22

Well, after the Lima incident they should be a bit more seasoned in their reactions.

Another follow-up by the MOFA

=> http://www.mofa.go.jp/announce/press/2002/5/0514.html

Addendum:

I found this story today at the Fukuzawa mailing list. Of course I cannot confirm its truth. Apparently a similar incident took place in Tokyo about 20 years ago. A North Korean sailor had fled to the U.S. Consulate, pursued by two Japanese police men. They entered the consulate and started to pull the North Korean out of the building. They only left the consulate after a U.S. Marines commander pointed his gun at them and threatened to shoot them in Japanese language. The Japanese government protested against this action, but the U.S. Embassy in Japan refused to accept the protest and in turn lodged a strong protest in reaction to the violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. The sailor was later given asylum in the USA.

moyashi · May 15, 2002, 08:25

hmmmm ... maybe the special "allowance incident" movement for the SDF should be used to place SDF guards at embasseys and cosulates?

tosh · May 15, 2002, 09:27

I think you're right on that (SDF). Japan could end up being the "mice that voted to bell the cat".

thomas · May 15, 2002, 18:43

All's well that ends well, it seems.

Japan, China agree asylum seekers can go to third nation

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=215692

Third country = ROK. That's where they intended to head to anyhow.

...to place SDF guards at embasseys and cosulates

Japanese police should be posted at (not "in") foreign embassies and consulates in any case. However, they are not allowed to enter exterritorial premises without special consent of the embassy involved. As far as I know the US is the only nation guarding its own embassies with a regular military unit.

moyashi · May 16, 2002, 07:30

alert ! conspiracy theory coming up!

Hmmm ... Anybody find a full copy of the letter that was sent to the consulate before/after this incident?

The Japanese public ripped pretty hard on the consulate employees and lack of English skills.

And, what has been bothering for the past few days on this.
Why didn't anybody else mention this?

Isn't it strange that Nort Koreans (a country of straving folks) have cameras, video cameras to film this event?

Isn't it strange that the letter from the Nort Koreans that got into the consulate is better written than many of my posts here!

Something smells really bad about this deal. It's too covered.

These folks are along the lines reporters from N.Korea, Spys, High Officials, or folks who have connections in the N.Korean mafia.

Well?

thomas · May 16, 2002, 20:27

Hm, I couldn't find any reference to the letter you mentioned. I agree, it's strange that the scene was filmed. By whom actually, North Koreans?

On the other hand I'm sure that the Chinese government closely surveils all foreign embassies and consulates (a common practice everywhere).

Isn't it strange that North Koreans (a country of straving folks) have cameras, video cameras to film this event?

Starving or not, they have one of the largest armies in Asia, they have ballistic missiles and most probably nuclear warheads.

The masses eat bark and their great leader's son gets caught travelling to Tokyo Disneyland on a Dominican diplomatic passport ("visiting Disneyland", ha ha). Most of the North Korean missions abroad have to engage in illegal activities in order to financially survive.

And then there are these abduction cases...

I begin to understand why Japanese generally feel very uncomfortable about the PRK and North Korean activities in Japan.

Please keep us updated, if you have more news on the letter and the video.

moyashi · May 17, 2002, 10:04

hmmm being really sleepy watching late night news doesn't help with comprehension. I thought that the film crew was part of the refugees trying to enter the consulate.

Even if the chinese government filmed this event why would they release it to the media? Therefore my bad listening skills should be right.

The letter has been on the news a few times.

yeah, the DisneyLand scandal was pretty funny.

eww the boogey man abductions are pretty freaky. I heard that there are actual towns setup to imitate a japanese setting.

secret activities ... about 2-3 months back the Japan coast guard sunk an apparently North Korean spy mission boat. They SDF/Coast guard is now trying to pull up the boat or is just checking it out for more information.

The news is really ragging on the Foreign Ministry about this. I wouldn't be surprised to see Foreign Minister Kawaguchi getting fired over this and later the whole Cabinet getting a non-confidence vote.

larry_s · May 18, 2002, 23:21

Freaking country, North Korea!

I am always suspicious when videocameras are too easy at hand, but I agree, the Chinese wouldn't publish this material.

moyashi · May 19, 2002, 18:11

A Korean friend once mentioned that the North Koreans had dug tunnels for tanks that would allow them to appear just at the outskirts of Seoul. Now, that was freaky.

While I was in Korea for visa purposes, I kept seeing Police checking people, sh...it I thought they were gonna stop me and my ex-girlfriend. they just walked past as if we weren't there. Apparently, they were checking for North Koreans. wooooooo

thomas · May 20, 2002, 20:50

How convenient for Pyongyang's fifth column in Japan:

Japan to grant asylum to ex-resident N Koreans

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=216550

Official MOFA statement

=> http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-pa...shengyang.html

thomas · May 23, 2002, 06:59

Just to conclude the story:

Japan kept in dark as asylum seekers head to Manila

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=217322

China lets asylum seekers depart for South Korea

=> http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20020523a1.htm

thomas · Jun 14, 2002, 18:42

Asylum seekers find no welcome in Japan

=> http://www.iht.com/articles/60785.html

thomas · Jul 28, 2002, 18:15

Just a little follow-up:

Envoy to China apologizes for N Korean asylum case

Tokyo � Japanese Ambassador to China Koreshige Anami apologized at a Diet committee Friday for mishandling an asylum bid by North Koreans who were seized by Chinese police at a Japanese consulate.

"I accept my punishment solemnly, deeply reflect on my deeds, and will see to it that my job responsibilities are met without any omission," Anami, who was admonished over the incident, told the House of Representatives committee on foreign relations.

Reported by Kyodo News

It seems that there's a constant influx of N. Korean refugees to Japan. I just browsed the news for the past six weeks and found a couple of such incidents (N. Korean army defectors, people who fled to a Japanese consulate in Canada etc.).

May 12, 2002, 09:23	#4
deborah gormley Regular Member Join Date: Apr 19, 2002 Location: Nr. Ireland. Age: 40 Posts: 829	Havent seen video, got the story from your recommended site, and the consular workers should have done more, as tosh says, as for the defecters, sympathies. __________________ Debs

May 14, 2002, 22:23	#7
moyashi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 15, 2002 Location: SonyLand Age: 40 Posts: 1,566	Japan's reactions are a little late. Allowing foreign nationals police/military into a consulate is a bad precedent. Gee and what just happened in Lima, Peru recently. Great job !!! Apparently, this procedure isn't in the manual. Another thoughtful oversight. ughhh __________________ crazy gonna crazy

May 15, 2002, 04:22	#8
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Well, after the Lima incident they should be a bit more seasoned in their reactions. Another follow-up by the MOFA => http://www.mofa.go.jp/announce/press/2002/5/0514.html Addendum: I found this story today at the Fukuzawa mailing list. Of course I cannot confirm its truth. Apparently a similar incident took place in Tokyo about 20 years ago. A North Korean sailor had fled to the U.S. Consulate, pursued by two Japanese police men. They entered the consulate and started to pull the North Korean out of the building. They only left the consulate after a U.S. Marines commander pointed his gun at them and threatened to shoot them in Japanese language. The Japanese government protested against this action, but the U.S. Embassy in Japan refused to accept the protest and in turn lodged a strong protest in reaction to the violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. The sailor was later given asylum in the USA. Last edited by thomas; May 15, 2002 at 06:23.

May 15, 2002, 18:43	#11
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	All's well that ends well, it seems. Japan, China agree asylum seekers can go to third nation => http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=215692 Third country = ROK. That's where they intended to head to anyhow. ...to place SDF guards at embasseys and cosulates Japanese police should be posted at (not "in") foreign embassies and consulates in any case. However, they are not allowed to enter exterritorial premises without special consent of the embassy involved. As far as I know the US is the only nation guarding its own embassies with a regular military unit.

May 16, 2002, 20:27	#13
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Hm, I couldn't find any reference to the letter you mentioned. I agree, it's strange that the scene was filmed. By whom actually, North Koreans? On the other hand I'm sure that the Chinese government closely surveils all foreign embassies and consulates (a common practice everywhere). Isn't it strange that North Koreans (a country of straving folks) have cameras, video cameras to film this event? Starving or not, they have one of the largest armies in Asia, they have ballistic missiles and most probably nuclear warheads. The masses eat bark and their great leader's son gets caught travelling to Tokyo Disneyland on a Dominican diplomatic passport ("visiting Disneyland", ha ha). Most of the North Korean missions abroad have to engage in illegal activities in order to financially survive. And then there are these abduction cases... I begin to understand why Japanese generally feel very uncomfortable about the PRK and North Korean activities in Japan. Please keep us updated, if you have more news on the letter and the video.

May 11, 2002, 03:46	#2
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Related MOFA statement => http://www.mofa.go.jp/announce/press/2002/5/0510.html

May 12, 2002, 00:06	#3
tosh Regular Member Join Date: Apr 25, 2002 Location: the other side of the world. Posts: 61	It might turn out to be a hot summer. And as for the defectors, well... -sympathies.

May 12, 2002, 09:33	#5
tosh Regular Member Join Date: Apr 25, 2002 Location: the other side of the world. Posts: 61	On the subject of the Chinese. I get France2 with English subtitles in my area (lucky me), and i just saw an amazing story. According to the news, Chinese villagers in the Henan province had been selling their blood, which was sent through a common centrifuge, poisening them and subsequently anyone who recieved a transfusion, with HIV. -Now thats really scary.

May 14, 2002, 21:18	#6
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Update: China refuses to hand over N Korean asylum seekers => http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=215539 "...claiming they acted with Japan's consent so as to assure the security of the Japanese diplomatic facility..." Reminds me of summer '89 when East Germans flooded the West German embassies in Prague and Budapest which initiated the downfall of the GDR. China might be afraid of something similar taking place in the PRK. Taken from JT's message board: "...The Chinese armed officers risked their lives for the security of Japanese consulate when they took away those unidentified intruders. If the Chinese armed police soldiers had not blocked this kind of people from intruding into the consulate, who knows what would happen..."

May 15, 2002, 08:25	#9
moyashi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 15, 2002 Location: SonyLand Age: 40 Posts: 1,566	hmmmm ... maybe the special "allowance incident" movement for the SDF should be used to place SDF guards at embasseys and cosulates?

May 15, 2002, 09:27	#10
tosh Regular Member Join Date: Apr 25, 2002 Location: the other side of the world. Posts: 61	I think you're right on that (SDF). Japan could end up being the "mice that voted to bell the cat".

May 16, 2002, 07:30	#12
moyashi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 15, 2002 Location: SonyLand Age: 40 Posts: 1,566	alert ! conspiracy theory coming up! Hmmm ... Anybody find a full copy of the letter that was sent to the consulate before/after this incident? The Japanese public ripped pretty hard on the consulate employees and lack of English skills. And, what has been bothering for the past few days on this. Why didn't anybody else mention this? Isn't it strange that Nort Koreans (a country of straving folks) have cameras, video cameras to film this event? Isn't it strange that the letter from the Nort Koreans that got into the consulate is better written than many of my posts here! Something smells really bad about this deal. It's too covered. These folks are along the lines reporters from N.Korea, Spys, High Officials, or folks who have connections in the N.Korean mafia. Well?

May 17, 2002, 10:04	#14
moyashi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 15, 2002 Location: SonyLand Age: 40 Posts: 1,566	hmmm being really sleepy watching late night news doesn't help with comprehension. I thought that the film crew was part of the refugees trying to enter the consulate. Even if the chinese government filmed this event why would they release it to the media? Therefore my bad listening skills should be right. The letter has been on the news a few times. yeah, the DisneyLand scandal was pretty funny. eww the boogey man abductions are pretty freaky. I heard that there are actual towns setup to imitate a japanese setting. secret activities ... about 2-3 months back the Japan coast guard sunk an apparently North Korean spy mission boat. They SDF/Coast guard is now trying to pull up the boat or is just checking it out for more information. The news is really ragging on the Foreign Ministry about this. I wouldn't be surprised to see Foreign Minister Kawaguchi getting fired over this and later the whole Cabinet getting a non-confidence vote.

May 18, 2002, 23:21	#15
larry_s Regular Member Join Date: Mar 15, 2002 Location: localhost Posts: 51	Freaking country, North Korea! I am always suspicious when videocameras are too easy at hand, but I agree, the Chinese wouldn't publish this material. __________________ Dirty Larry

May 19, 2002, 18:11	#16
moyashi Regular Member Join Date: Apr 15, 2002 Location: SonyLand Age: 40 Posts: 1,566	A Korean friend once mentioned that the North Koreans had dug tunnels for tanks that would allow them to appear just at the outskirts of Seoul. Now, that was freaky. While I was in Korea for visa purposes, I kept seeing Police checking people, sh...it I thought they were gonna stop me and my ex-girlfriend. they just walked past as if we weren't there. Apparently, they were checking for North Koreans. wooooooo

May 20, 2002, 20:50	#17
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	How convenient for Pyongyang's fifth column in Japan: Japan to grant asylum to ex-resident N Koreans => http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=216550 Official MOFA statement => http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-pa...shengyang.html Last edited by thomas; May 21, 2002 at 04:28.

May 23, 2002, 06:59	#18
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Just to conclude the story: Japan kept in dark as asylum seekers head to Manila => http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content...at=1&id=217322 China lets asylum seekers depart for South Korea => http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20020523a1.htm

Jun 14, 2002, 18:42	#19
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Refugee policy embarrasses nation Asylum seekers find no welcome in Japan => http://www.iht.com/articles/60785.html

Jul 28, 2002, 18:15	#20
thomas Decommissioned ex-admin Join Date: Mar 14, 2002 Posts: 4,209	Just a little follow-up: Envoy to China apologizes for N Korean asylum case Tokyo � Japanese Ambassador to China Koreshige Anami apologized at a Diet committee Friday for mishandling an asylum bid by North Koreans who were seized by Chinese police at a Japanese consulate. "I accept my punishment solemnly, deeply reflect on my deeds, and will see to it that my job responsibilities are met without any omission," Anami, who was admonished over the incident, told the House of Representatives committee on foreign relations. Reported by Kyodo News It seems that there's a constant influx of N. Korean refugees to Japan. I just browsed the news for the past six weeks and found a couple of such incidents (N. Korean army defectors, people who fled to a Japanese consulate in Canada etc.). Last edited by thomas; Jul 28, 2002 at 18:26.

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