Do Japanese citizens pay for the US troops presence?

[CBT1979]

I'm asking that because here in Germany, the German government needs to pay partly for the presence of the US troops here, and the money is of course funded from the tax we citizens pay.
But why should we need them anymore? The Cold War has ended decades ago, US troops never helped German citizens during several big floodings while German troops were deployed no matter young or old. In one town where the flooding was very bad, there was a US base who just watched, while a German company from a base much far away came to rescue and build water barriers.
IMO, we are wasting money and those money should be re-directed to the German Bundeswehr who we can rely on more.

[bexchurnside]

Hey, at least they are paying for the "Few and the Proud", those who wear the globe and the anchor, the US Marine Corps are definately worth paying good yen for. Imagine if North Korea attacked Japan? Just for them to be there, without firing a single round, they prevent missles from being fired, saving millions of Japanese lives. I think it would have been better if Douglas McArthur gave all Japanese US Citizenship, and made Japan into an American state. I am sure that many Japanese today who love everything American would have loved that.

[pipokun]

A fishing boat sank 5yrs ago, not in WWII.
It doesn't look like gorgeous harpoons...

[undrentide]

Originally Posted by bexchurnside

Hey, at least they are paying for the "Few and the Proud", those who wear the globe and the anchor, the US Marine Corps are definately worth paying good yen for. Imagine if North Korea attacked Japan? Just for them to be there, without firing a single round, they prevent missles from being fired, saving millions of Japanese lives. I think it would have been better if Douglas McArthur gave all Japanese US Citizenship, and made Japan into an American state. I am sure that many Japanese today who love everything American would have loved that.

Making Japan into a part of the US?
A big, resounding "NO, THANK YOU"!!

232.6 billion Yen (approx. 101 mil. GBP/193 mil. US$/150 mil. Euro) a year is too much to pay, especially when there are so many crimes comitted by those stationed in Japan... I admit their presence does help to fend off NK but the US also needs a base to protect their country from the NK missiles and Japan is located in such a convenient place.

For people living near the base, it should be hard to tell whether the US troops are there to protect them or harm them. Missiles have not reached Japan yet (so far) but the robbery and rapes are already there.

[Nicholas0016]

Originally Posted by undrentide

Making Japan into a part of the US?
A big, resounding "NO, THANK YOU"!!
232.6 billion Yen (approx. 101 mil. GBP/193 mil. US$/150 mil. Euro) a year is too much to pay, especially when there are so many crimes comitted by those stationed in Japan... I admit their presence does help to fend off NK but the US also needs a base to protect their country from the NK missiles and Japan is located in such a convenient place.
For people living near the base, it should be hard to tell whether the US troops are there to protect them or harm them. Missiles have not reached Japan yet (so far) but the robbery and rapes are already there.

You make the US troops to be robbery and rapers? Please correct me if I misread that statement.

[bexchurnside]

Originally Posted by Nicholas0016

You make the US troops to be robbery and rapers? Please correct me if I misread that statement.

The Marines wear on their Class A uniforms, the Globe and the Anchor. Most join the Army, Navy, or Airforce, but the Marines are Marines by identity. How could people not give a hoot about the Globe and the Anchor, living under Semper Fedelis? So when saying troops, please be specific in separating Marines from the rest of the soldiers, as it is not fair.

[nurizeko]

I'm asking that because here in Germany, the German government needs to pay partly for the presence of the US troops here, and the money is of course funded from the tax we citizens pay.
But why should we need them anymore? The Cold War has ended decades ago, US troops never helped German citizens during several big floodings while German troops were deployed no matter young or old. In one town where the flooding was very bad, there was a US base who just watched, while a German company from a base much far away came to rescue and build water barriers.
IMO, we are wasting money and those money should be re-directed to the German Bundeswehr who we can rely on more.

It all started in the 1930's when Hitler took control.
Several years later after a poorly thought out and overall morally wrong war, Germany lost. To the Americans amongst others.

Hence the bases to this day, thats why my country has bases in germany aswell.


As for the American army not helping, their the kinda army that does alot of fighting and a little less humanitarian work.

Or maybe they just felt the Germans could handle it, who knows, maybe US forces need permission to leave the US bases onto German soil when acting in an official capacity.

[undrentide]

Originally Posted by Nicholas0016

You make the US troops to be robbery and rapers? Please correct me if I misread that statement.

No, I don't. And yes, you did.
I might not be clear enough, but you misunderstood what I'm talking about.

I don't think the whole US troops could commit crimes, majority of people must be great people, but it is also true that some of them do commit such crimes - unfortunately it is often reported on TV news.

Such crimes of course are not unique to them, I'm sure the number of Japanese offender is way far more than those from the US troops considering the number of population of Japanese.

Yet...
When I hear the military forces, I expect diciplined people. They are there believing they are doing what they believe is right, aren't they? Considering that and also about the astronomical amount of money being paid to them from our tax, for our security and to protect us, learning that something quite opposite is happening is more than disappointment.

[Nicholas0016]

Originally Posted by undrentide

No, I don't. And yes, you did.
I might not be clear enough, but you misunderstood what I'm talking about.
I don't think the whole US troops could commit crimes, majority of people must be great people, but it is also true that some of them do commit such crimes - unfortunately it is often reported on TV news.
Such crimes of course are not unique to them, I'm sure the number of Japanese offender is way far more than those from the US troops considering the number of population of Japanese.
Yet...
When I hear the military forces, I expect diciplined people. They are there believing they are doing what they believe is right, aren't they? Considering that and also about the astronomical amount of money being paid to them from our tax, for our security and to protect us, learning that something quite opposite is happening is more than disappointment.

Ok, go live in vietnam then if you believe the military do nothing. Maybe it can be south and north japan? There is war still in place with North Korea. Its only a ceasefire. If they ever broke that cease fire, where do you think the first place the would target? South Korea, and Japan. You think North Korea would show mercy to your people? They have Russian Nukes that they can shoot off of a ship.

Military Troops are not their to enslave your people , that is just hate coming from your mouth. The military is NOT an occupier. We are a defender.


Another reason military bases are there is because we are an ally with Japan. Allys protect each other, they dont turn their back. Allys put the pressure on north korea risking national security in our own country. Allys do that for other countries.

[nurizeko]

232.6 billion Yen (approx. 101 mil. GBP/193 mil. US$/150 mil. Euro) a year is too much to pay, especially when there are so many crimes comitted by those stationed in Japan...

If the US military pulled out it would cause Japan to suffer a horrible enlightenment that all their crime is infact overwhlemingly commited by Japanese.

The US troops arent all wild thugs out to take advantage of the laws of a foreign country, its just Japanese media takes the acts of a tiny minority of US troops, and turns it into a sensationalised news-report.

The Gaijin serves as a nice scape-goat for a country thats big on denial.

[japantvhost]

Directly and indirectly is the answer. You don't host foreign troops on your home soil without paying something

[TwistedMac]

Originally Posted by bexchurnside

The Marines wear on their Class A uniforms, the Globe and the Anchor. Most join the Army, Navy, or Airforce, but the Marines are Marines by identity. How could people not give a hoot about the Globe and the Anchor, living under Semper Fedelis? So when saying troops, please be specific in separating Marines from the rest of the soldiers, as it is not fair.

Not only does this only make a moderate amount of sense, but it is also quite naive to think one section of a country's armed forces is somehow excempt from suspicion in matters like crimes.
Remember that your "globe and anchor" people are still only people. Some of them don't give a toss about Semper Fidelis.

Every armed force has a slogan, almost all with a quite catchy ring to it, and many in Latin. That doesn't mean they automatically didn't do anything.

When I was in the army, my company's slogan was Strike fast, Strike hard. We didn't though.

[bexchurnside]

Originally Posted by TwistedMac

Not only does this only make a moderate amount of sense, but it is also quite naive to think one section of a country's armed forces is somehow excempt from suspicion in matters like crimes.
Remember that your "globe and anchor" people are still only people. Some of them don't give a toss about Semper Fidelis.
Every armed force has a slogan, almost all with a quite catchy ring to it, and many in Latin. That doesn't mean they automatically didn't do anything.
When I was in the army, my company's slogan was Strike fast, Strike hard. We didn't though.

What was your rank? Were you a commissioned officer or an enlisted man? If you were an officer, did you commission through the ranks or were you college op? (ROTC)? 09S? What was your MOS? Were you 11A or 11B?

[Japan_Observer]

Media attention on this issue has made it difficult for people to see that for the most part communities that host bases are happy to have them there; there is a "silent majority" phenomenon at work. Those who are opposed to the US presence are the loudest, but loudness does not equal broad and deep hostility.

Moreover, if you look at US deployments in Japan, the greatest concern that could undermine the US presence here is not crimes by US soldiers, sailors, and marines, but rather a jet crash in a heavily populated area. Atsugi and Yokota airbases are both located in the heavily populated Kanto, and were a US plane to crash it could have a major backlash for US forward deployments.

Hence the current bilateral course of action: consolidate the US presence and create facilities that are shared by the JSDF and the US military.

[名無し]

It is rather surprising that no one so far mentioned the very keyword omoiyari yosan, Japan has basically been begging US troops not to leave, since the end of Cold War.

[dogcountry]

I've read all the above about whether US forces should leave Japan. I think we would learn more if Japanese citizens spoke up ON THIS FORUM. I favor US forces remain in Japan for protective reasons. I was part of the US Occupation of Japan. The citizens wanted this. I also believe that Japanese males should be accepted in the US armed forces. I believe that after those individuals finish their military obligation they will obtain full US citizenship.
RB BMCS USN (Ret)

[bexchurnside]

Originally Posted by dogcountry

I've read all the above about whether US forces should leave Japan. I think we would learn more if Japanese citizens spoke up ON THIS FORUM. I favor US forces remain in Japan for protective reasons. I was part of the US Occupation of Japan. The citizens wanted this. I also believe that Japanese males should be accepted in the US armed forces. I believe that after those individuals finish their military obligation they will obtain full US citizenship.
RB BMCS USN (Ret)

I do agree with you. I even found a post on hawaiithreads that gives a concrete example of a Japanese male who desired to become a US Marine himself, and work in Okinawa with the III Marines. http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=11904

I think he would benefit a lot to learn that to be a translator in the Marine Corps, one needs to get a
Defense Language Proficiency Test
Asian Pacific Languages.
2739 -- Japanese

And, translators do not necessarily "see combat", so that is a cushy desk job. Since Japanese males wouldn't be shooting any of their own, but just doing some sort of paperwork, I cannot see why they wouldn't do it. They would also get to practice English with us for free. I could see with the many finding difficulty finding work, that many would only be too happy to join up with the Marines.

By the way, if Japanese men joined the US forces, they would all make the Marines. These guys capable of doing Kamikaze have more balls than your average US Marine. Even with inferior PT skills, making it in the Marines is about mental spirit, more so than physical capabilities. Any US Marine would agree with me on this. Hooah!

SEMPER FI.

The Yamato Damashi will suffice for the Eagle, Globe, and the Anchor. Hooah!

[dogcountry]

That's well and good. I look at that subject a bit differently. I don't believe the average young Japanese male, healthy, eager to amount to something would be contented with a cushy job as a US serviceman. I spent some three years in Japan and later returned there for other reasons. The male Japanese friends I made voiced their opinions/ desires re: the subject of being part of US Forces. Japanese Schools have for many years been teaching English to the students. Sorry to say during the war the schools were forbidden to teach English. I know, as my lady finished HS and knew no English. When I arrived there I joined a Japanese language class on base and some of the students had come up from conflict in the Pacific with no hard feelings. I went through two additional Japanese language schools at my expence. So I still say, allow the Japanese to enter our Armed Forces with full benefits and full retirement benefits also.

[KirinMan]

bexchurnside, don't be fooled by that poster on the thread you linked to, he or she has posted the same information on a number of message boards related to the Marine Corps, including this board under the handle jonathancameroon(sp?).

Anyway back to the OP yes the Japanese government and by default myself as well are paying a huge chunck of money to support the US Military here in Japan. The US Government even expects the Japanese Gov to pay for the building of new facilities in Guam to "assist", (I read that as bribery) in the relocation of a considerable number of Marines and their families from Okinawa to Guam. Guam currently does not have the infrastructure or facilities to support an estimated 18,000 Marines and their families.

Anyway on that note I think that it is a mistake to move those Marines and their families as it is usually the unaccompanied military members and the Marines that are in the combat units that often commit crimes here in Okinawa. Well that is probably another topic and not related to the OP's question.

Arguably the Japanese were able to rebuild their economy and country as a whole due in part to the US Military presence here in Japan. The Japanese never really had to worry about defense spending and were able to concentrate on the civilian side of the economy. Which they managed to do very well as history shows. The Japanese built as you know the economic powerhouse that is still chugging along today.

There are other political factors involved in keeping the US here as well. Nations in the region have long memories and do not want to see the US pull out partially out of fear of a Japanese military build up that would be unrestrained by the US. Economically Japan, in my opinion, could very easily build a very well equipped and highly trained military in a very short time. The SDF in many ways would fit that purpose very easily.

It is not an easy subject even for many here in Japan. But from my take on it so far the US Military, while quite possibly in the next 10 to 20 years, will decrease their precense here, a total pullout I don't think is in the cards. However much many would wish it to be so. Japanese politicians if anything are realists and understand the reasoning and rational to keeping them here, and by paying to keep the bases they also are helping their country continue to develop and grow economically and politically. Having the US guaruntee your safety, at least right now, is a pretty safe bet.

[dogcountry]

I don't exploit any one particular branch of our forces In Japan. I happened to be US Navy and I made it a point to not hobble with gung ho marines. Neither did I then and still don't get into the politics of both governments. My topic was geared toward the Japanese citizen and whether our forces should remain in Japan. I was mostly a Navy diver (scuba only) and didn't have time for politics. Sorry I can't get on that subject as I simply am not informed to discuss politics.

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by dogcountry

I don't exploit any one particular branch of our forces In Japan. I happened to be US Navy and I made it a point to not hobble with gung ho marines. Neither did I then and still don't get into the politics of both governments. My topic was geared toward the Japanese citizen and whether our forces should remain in Japan. I was mostly a Navy diver (scuba only) and didn't have time for politics. Sorry I can't get on that subject as I simply am not informed to discuss politics.

Ok fair enough, all I can share with you is from my personal knowledge of the situation here in Okinawa.

There are many Okinawan's that do not want the bases here, they see them as a nuisance and a burden on the people. Yet they are not blind to the fact that the economic value that the bases have for the island and it's people is very important and thye understand that there needs to be something to replace them before the island's bases are totally returned to Japan.

On the other hand you have many people that actually own the land the bases are using that do not want the bases returned, because they would lose the income that they get from the rent or compensation they receive from the Japanese Gov for use of their land. To some it is enough that they do not have to work to survive.

You know one thing I find to be rather ironic is that there is one Union on the base for the base workers that actually has a plank in their constitution that avocates the removal of all US Military Bases in Japan. They want the bases removed, but want the money and stability of having the job on the base. They often fight for an increase in pay and the number of workers on the bases as it is. Doesn't make too much sense to me. The other union is more realistic and desires to work with the military to keep relations peaceful between the military and their Japanese members and community.

As you probably know base workers are similar in many respects to government employees. Go figure huh!

[dogcountry]

Wow! I just viewed that Hawaii thread. Oh! I couldn't handle myself in there as so centered on one particular topic. Most I'd say are second generation and maybe third generation Nisei and I believe mostly populated in Hawaii. I'll stay right here and be comfortable. At the base at Yokosuka I pulled some strings and got my lady a job at the Telephone Exchange answering calls coming in by spoken Japanese citizens. Her immediate boss was a Nisei lady and my Michan could not put up with her dominance being in charge of other citizens too. After listening I had her quit.

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by dogcountry

Wow! I just viewed that Hawaii thread. Oh! I couldn't handle myself in there as so centered on one particular topic. Most I'd say are second generation and maybe third generation Nisei and I believe mostly populated in Hawaii. I'll stay right here and be comfortable. At the base at Yokosuka I pulled some strings and got my lady a job at the Telephone Exchange answering calls coming in by spoken Japanese citizens. Her immediate boss was a Nisei lady and my Michan could not put up with her dominance being in charge of other citizens too. After listening I had her quit.

This is probably off topic here and I apologize for it ahead of time.....

My wife works on base as well as a teacher at the CDC and believe it or not she has more problems with Japanese spouses and people of Japanese heritage than the American parents of children that she teaches.

She often complains to me about their arrogance and "superior" attitude.

[bexchurnside]

Originally Posted by Obeika

This is probably off topic here and I apologize for it ahead of time.....
My wife works on base as well as a teacher at the CDC and believe it or not she has more problems with Japanese spouses and people of Japanese heritage than the American parents of children that she teaches.
She often complains to me about their arrogance and "superior" attitude.

You know, them Hawaiian Japanese American 2nd 3rd, and 4th appear to be too quick to show their loyalty to the US.

It might be weird to have those who appear to be your kind turn on their ancestors, but what about the American Revolution with the British fighting the British? How about the war of 1812 with Canadians and Americans fighting each other when many of have the same ancestry!

That fellow Craig Watanabe in that Hawaiithread is quite a character though.

[Sukotto]

as usual with these types of things
"dollar or yen amounts cannot show the true price payed"

of course, the Okinawans pay the most, for decisions made in Tokyo and Washington
They house, I believe, 75% of all US bases in Japan.
The following two links contain email responses I posted from authors
of chapters of the book Okinawa: Cold War Island


under the threads with the following titles
Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?
&
100.000 crimes commited by US forces in Japan



But also,
a military base right in the capital city! "unprecedented for an independent nation" & where real estate is, of course, mega-expensive


While the population of Japan as a whole, may or may not be "loud",
those living in the immediate vacinity of bases do from time to time
lose their "cool". That is, I have never read about how people far away
from bases feel, but it seems evident the people living next door do pay a price that politicians in the capital cities do not and have felt the need to exercise their inalienable rights.