What are japanese people intrested in foreigners, in my case.

[Mrjones]

Things usually start similar way as they end. My experience about Japanese people and talking with them always start with question: When you are going back home? They asked the first day I arrived, and they ask it even when I am already about to leave. Dont they understand how rude this feels.
Some of them even dont care about my name, they care about when I am leaving. I will sure to teach all these from my children and their grand children.
They have no manners at all.

[Ewok85]

Its just how it translates, when I meet someone I'll ask "how long are you here for?". Same question, different undertone.

[Mrjones]

Yeah, but how many times person has to ask same things ..whats the point ? They know the answer, they have known it several months already.

[Dutch Baka]

I almost never get this question. I always get the how old are you, and where are you from question... even though all kids think that I am from America... (after I screams, NOOOOOOOO I AM DUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , they won't say that anymore .. no offense)

[nice gaijin]

mrjones, haven't you asked this question in another thread, or was that someone else? You seem to be insisting that the Japanese people who ask you this are being rude, even if that's not their intention. Are you aware of how narrow-minded this seems?

Originally Posted by Dutch Baka

I almost never get this question. I always get the how old are you, and where are you from question... even though all kids think that I am from America... (after I screams, NOOOOOOOO I AM DUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , they won't say that anymore .. no offense)

I get asked every once in a while, but I have not once been insulted by it. It never strikes me as an insinuation that I should leave, and they just want to know when to throw the party...

and no offense taken, I always introduce myself as a Californian, as most people seem to make the distinction as if it were a separate entity from the rest of the nation

[MiaCarlax]

From what Ive heard, arent japanese people extremly poliete? And take care into not wanting to insult people?

I always thought, seeing as the complex (to me anyway) polieteness levels in thier language, that they are generally quite friendly and nice.

My friend recently came back from japan and she said they were all very helpful and kind to her. Maybe you just took what they said the wrong way?

[Nall-ohki]

I believe my previous response to this question is still valid (previous thread):

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403478

Originally Posted by Nall-ohki

"when are you going home?"
Again, this is a question that seems rude on the surface, but is a symptom of the same love of stereotypes I wrote about above.

* You're from Finland, and I'm assuming you're caucasian.
* Most caucasians in Japan are English teachers
* Most English Teachers in Japan stay for a while, and then go home


This is another stereotype - they're not asking you "Why haven't you gone home yet?", they're asking you based on the unstated assumption "Gaijin eventually go home."

It's not a good assumption, but it's the one that they're working with.
Let me ask you this:

You meet someone who's a student, and ask them "When are you graduating?" but that person is actually not going to graduate, but instead is going to quit school next semester, should that student be offended?
I mean, they're a student - they're planning to graduate, right?

Basically, you need to get out of your head, MrJones. You're in a new culture, and you're insisting on seeing the world through the predjudices of your previous culture.

THEY ARE NOT BEING RUDE

They are making conversation based on incorrect assumptions, just as you are being offended based on incorrect assumptions of thier intent.

The best way to understand my point is the law of fives from the Principia Discordia:

The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.

The Law of Fives is never wrong.


All you see are fives. Therefore everything relates to them.

[Mrjones]

Originally Posted by Nall-ohki

I believe my previous response to this question is still valid (previous thread):
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403478
Basically, you need to get out of your head, MrJones. You're in a new culture, and you're insisting on seeing the world through the predjudices of your previous culture.
THEY ARE NOT BEING RUDE
They are making conversation based on incorrect assumptions, just as you are being offended based on incorrect assumptions of thier intent.
The best way to understand my point is the law of fives from the Principia Discordia:
The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.
The Law of Fives is never wrong.

All you see are fives. Therefore everything relates to them.

Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

[Nall-ohki]

Originally Posted by Mrjones

Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

That would be rude, as you are TRYING to disrespect the other person. Ignorance is not rude. Intent is required.

You're still missing the point, which I illustrated in the previous thread, and this one:

Your way of thinking about yourself in relation to the Japanese is completely flawed. They are working based on the assumption that foreigners LEAVE. To the Japanese, that's what they do. They are not disrespecting you - they mereley believe that going back to your country is a neccessary part of being a foreigner.

The Japanese are basically children when it comes to hands-on experience with foreigners. Thier questions are uniformed, but they are NOT disrespecting you.

Do you expect:
- A high school student to graduate? "So, when are you graduating?"
- A contract worker's contract to be up? "So, how long is your contract for?"
- A foreign exchange student to eventually go home? "So, how long are you here for?"

You seem to be spending a lot of energy being angry at these people for their honest (and understandable) question given thier frame of reference.

Let me ask you this:
- Has anyone ask you how long you've been in Japan?
- Do you find this offensive?

- Have any foreign students asked you how long you're going to be here?
- Is that offensive?

I'm done gently nudging you -

GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD.

Do you really think that EVERY Japanese person is trying to be rude to you?

If you do, then it's proof that you're not thinking straight.

If you don't, then what's your problem?

Rationally, if you don't think every Japanese person is trying to be rude to you and yet they all seem to be, THEN PERHAPS YOUR IDEA OF RUDENESS IS NOT CORRECT.

You are NOT back home in Europe, this is NOT your culture. DEAL WITH IT. WORK WITH IT. Figure out how you relate to it.

STOP SEEING THE WORLD THROUGH YOUR OWN PREDJUDICES.

To anyone who thinks I'm being harsh, please read the previous thread by MrJones I posted to above before replying.

[Dutch Baka]

wow, you don't have to use the capital letters that much!!!

I don't have a problem with the question, but if it is the first question they ask you, it is rude in my opinion as well.

If someone just enters a school you also don't ask him when he is going to graduate! You ask him what his goals are on the school, why this school, what subject he likes most, etc.

[leonmarino]

Well.. It depends!! Like all things in life, innit?

I remember one instance when someone in Japan asked me when I was going to leave the moment after I arrived and was having a drink. Blunt as I am, I replied: "What!? Do you want me to leave already!?" with a big smile on my face of course, because I meant it as a joke. The other person was a little bit shocked and said that she asked me not because she wanted me to leave, but so she could plan better what we could do during the days that I was there. So in a sense it was the same question as "how long are you staying here?".

It all comes down to personal interpretation doesn't it? When someone asks you when you're going to leave and you're hurt, that means that in your own world you ask that sort of questions when you want people to leave or can't for that person to leave. But we are all different creatures and there are apparently some people on this planet who ask that sort of questions as a sign of affection.

There are also some people who do not understand a word of what I'm saying and keep clinging on to their own perspective, failing to understand the bigger picture.

[Mrjones]

Originally Posted by Nall-ohki

That would be rude, as you are TRYING to disrespect the other person. Ignorance is not rude. Intent is required.
You're still missing the point, which I illustrated in the previous thread, and this one:
Your way of thinking about yourself in relation to the Japanese is completely flawed. They are working based on the assumption that foreigners LEAVE. To the Japanese, that's what they do. They are not disrespecting you - they mereley believe that going back to your country is a neccessary part of being a foreigner.
The Japanese are basically children when it comes to hands-on experience with foreigners. Thier questions are uniformed, but they are NOT disrespecting you.
Do you expect:
- A high school student to graduate? "So, when are you graduating?"
- A contract worker's contract to be up? "So, how long is your contract for?"
- A foreign exchange student to eventually go home? "So, how long are you here for?"
You seem to be spending a lot of energy being angry at these people for their honest (and understandable) question given thier frame of reference.
Let me ask you this:
- Has anyone ask you how long you've been in Japan?
- Do you find this offensive?
- Have any foreign students asked you how long you're going to be here?
- Is that offensive?
I'm done gently nudging you -
GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD.
Do you really think that EVERY Japanese person is trying to be rude to you?
If you do, then it's proof that you're not thinking straight.
If you don't, then what's your problem?
Rationally, if you don't think every Japanese person is trying to be rude to you and yet they all seem to be, THEN PERHAPS YOUR IDEA OF RUDENESS IS NOT CORRECT.
You are NOT back home in Europe, this is NOT your culture. DEAL WITH IT. WORK WITH IT. Figure out how you relate to it.
STOP SEEING THE WORLD THROUGH YOUR OWN PREDJUDICES.
To anyone who thinks I'm being harsh, please read the previous thread by MrJones I posted to above before replying.

Thats great, now lets see how they handel it ?

[Nall-ohki]

Originally Posted by leonmarino

There are also some people who do not understand a word of what I'm saying and keep clinging on to their own perspective, failing to understand the bigger picture.

That's what I'm saying here. The OP has been ranting about this for some time (see previous thread), and finds it incredibly rude, but at the same time REFUSES to try to see it in a different light.

I can take ranting, but he's having trouble letting go of his own culture when interacting in another, and it's doing him harm. You can feel the anger in him.

I'm really not trying to be mean to him, but softer words have failed up to this point. He's stubborn, and if he keeps this up, he's going to hate the rest of his stay, and his anger is going to affect those around him - hurting possibly the first relations of some of the Japanese people he meets have ever really had with a foreign person.

This is what I object to.

[caster51]

"when are you going back to home?"
I also have questioned toForeigner like that.
How to associate is different because of the period.
It will be to say that it cares about you

A person not interesting oppositely doesn't question.

[Mrjones]

Well to most questions like: When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.

[caster51]

When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.

it is good answer. ppl are not getting to ask about you

[nice gaijin]

Originally Posted by Mrjones

Well to most questions like: When are you going home? I nowadays answer, when i want. To question why did you come to Japan? I answer becouse i wanted and i can--and i wanted to prove that on the first place. I can go anywhere i want.

gee, I wonder why you have trouble making friends.

[yukio_michael]

I've never been asked when I was leaving... but then, I was sort of presented as my girlfriend's beau, so that wasn't much of a topic... I've been asked about my skills with hashi, enjoyment of sushi, ability to eat natto, etcetera, but whatever... this doesn't bother me anymore.

One frequent question was for girlfriends to be introduced to other American men... not to perpetuate any myths....

[Mikawa Ossan]

"So, when are you going home?" is just the Japanese equivalent of "So, how long are you staying?"

[Karamuucho]

If they asked you in Japanese, or in English with the scentence structure of Japanese, it will probably come out as "when are you leaving". This is more to do with the language I guess.

One question though, not taking sides with anyone ofcourse cos hey, they really might have wanted you to leave, I don't know. However, did you ask? Did you imply that it sounded rude to see if you got a reason?

[taehyun]

If they asked you in Japanese, or in English with the scentence structure of Japanese, it will probably come out as "when are you leaving". This is more to do with the language I guess

.

In Japanese, "When are you leaving ?" is " Itsu kaerimasuka?" or "Itsu kikoku shimasuka?"

"How long will you be staying?" is " Dore gurai nihonn ni imasuka?" or even more particular "(Ato)Dore gurai Nihonn ni iru yotei desuka?"

Even if somebody doesn't understand Japanese will get the difference.Btw, I have never been asked Itsu kaerimasuka or Itsu XXX he modoru yoteidesuka?
There are different nuances in Itsu and Dore gurai, and the Japanese know them very well.

[Mikawa Ossan]

The "when are you going home" question is one of those things that I think a lot of foreigners are adept at taking far too seriously and making a mountain out of a molehill in the process.

1. If you are a student, chances are you are only staying temporarily. When you are leaving is a valid question.

2. We do the same at least in America. I remember a bunch of foreign students to whom I asked "So when are you leaving" or something similar.

3. Although in Japanese there is a way to specifically say, "How long will you be staying," from my experience at least, that is not the preferred way of asking even when Japanese are talking amongst themselves when it is assumed that their counterpart's stay is temporary.

4. There is a different view towards home in Japan. I get asked a lot, "Don't you ever go home?" That's because Japanese people traditionally go back to thier hometowns during the summer for Obon and also for New Year's to a large extent. Going home is something to be looked forward to, even if it's only temporary.

[Mrjones]

Originally Posted by taehyun

.
In Japanese, "When are you leaving ?" is " Itsu kaerimasuka?" or "Itsu kikoku shimasuka?"
"How long will you be staying?" is " Dore gurai nihonn ni imasuka?" or even more particular "(Ato)Dore gurai Nihonn ni iru yotei desuka?"
Even if somebody doesn't understand Japanese will get the difference.Btw, I have never been asked Itsu kaerimasuka or Itsu XXX he modoru yoteidesuka?
There are different nuances in Itsu and Dore gurai, and the Japanese know them very well.

Of course they know, but they just decided not to be friendly at beginning and at the end.
Note that this has probably happend only in my small city, so probably these rules dont apply to other universies or other Japanese people who have been extremely friendly. Its just the people I had to work with wanted to be more scumbags.

[taehyun]

2. We do the same at least in America. I remember a bunch of foreign students to whom I asked "So when are you leaving" or something similar.
3. Although in Japanese there is a way to specifically say, "How long will you be staying," from my experience at least, that is not the preferred way of asking even when Japanese are talking amongst themselves when it is assumed that their counterpart's stay is temporary.

So it is not a question of language but of choice?Why do they prefer "itsu" to " doregurai"? To save air and muscle contractions?

4. There is a different view towards home in Japan. I get asked a lot, "Don't you ever go home?" That's because Japanese people traditionally go back to thier hometowns during the summer for Obon and also for New Year's to a large extent. Going home is something to be looked forward to, even if it's only temporary.

I absolutely second this.Although, the understanding of the other's values should not be one-sided.
Both phrases have not only different meaning, but also different psycological connotation.White bread and rye bread are both bread, but you get heart disease with the white one.

[Mikawa Ossan]

Originally Posted by taehyun

So it is not a question of language but of choice?Why do they prefer "itsu" to " doregurai"? To save air and muscle contractions?

I have no idea. That's just how it seems to be done, which has always been enough for me.

I absolutely second this.Although, the understanding of the other's values should not be one-sided.
Both phrases have not only different meaning, but also different psycological connotation.White bread and rye bread are both bread, but you get heart disease with the white one.

We are not on our "home-turf" as foreigners. I've always assumed that this simple fact means we are to play by the "house rules" so long as we are here in Japan. I expect the same any time I travel to any other country.

Incidentally, I understand your point, and even agree to a large extent. I guess I just don't get bothered by it much. Also, I noticed that I used to get asked that a lot more when I had only been here for a short time. Now I rarely get asked when I'm leaving, although as aluded to before, I do get asked how often I return to America.

In terms of the word "kaeru", I use it for visiting my parents in America of course, but also for coming back home to Japan. No one has ever even batted an eye at this, as I clearly reside in Japan.