Is sumo wrestling fixed?

[craftsman]

An investigation is under way in Japan after allegations were made that the country's top sumo wrestler has been fixing matches.

Sumo's Grand Champion is a Mongolian called Asahoryu who won his 20th career title recently.


The allegations come from an unnamed wrestler and another man said to be connected to the Grand Champion's training stable.


They claim, in a magazine article, that Asahoryu has been paying his opponents around $6,500 (￡3,318) a match to let him win.

Continued

It would surprise many people I'm sure if it was ever found not to be corrupt. But even suggesting there is match fixing can lead to strange illnesses and early - totally natural, I'm sure - deaths.

The last time there were match-fixing allegations, in 2000, the two wrestlers who made the claims died within days of each other of mysterious liver complaints.

So I guess that it's not whether bouts are being fixed, but who stands to gain the most if Asashoryu comes out badly. Perhaps because of his nationality? His success? Any ideas?

[Uncle Frank]

Talk about messing with a national treasure; I find it hard to believe someone could put the "fix" in on major televised tournament. I guess if you could come up with enough dirty money you can corrupt anything in the world. I prefer to believe Sumo is still clean.

Uncle Frank

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Frank

Talk about messing with a national treasure; I find it hard to believe someone could put the "fix" in on major televised tournament. I guess if you could come up with enough dirty money you can corrupt anything in the world. I prefer to believe Sumo is still clean.
Uncle Frank

I agree with you here Uncle Frank, I would prefer to believe that Sumo is clean too. I know many Japanese people that are upset that their "National Sport" is being overrun with foreign participants that are generally speaking advancing at a more rapid pace than the Japanese rikishi. Hence the institution of the rule that each Sumo beya's can now only have, I think, 2 foreign members.

It sounds to me anyway that some Japanese person somewhere is overly jealous about Asashoryu and his accomplishments so far in Sumo. I hate to think what will happen or what he will be accused of, or what will happen to him personally, if he comes anywhere close to breaking the all time tournament victory record. It's not a sport like baseball where they can walk him everytime so the player wouldn't be given a chance to break a "hallowed" record, like what happened to Randy Bass.

With society the way it is here in Japan now-a-days younger Japanese boys are not interested in the rigid formality that sumo has traditionally required. A complaint often heard is that many of the Japanese rikishi don't have the "hungry-seishin" frame of mind that is necessary to compete at the same level as the foreigners that come here to Japan to wrestle. It isn't just sumo either, it is a comentary about sports in general here in Japan. I personally don't think it is from a lack of training or ability, but rather an attitude bred from having a lifestyle that doesn't personally challenge people to succeed at the level needed to be a "champion".

In my opinion Japanese people are just going to have to get used to seeing foreigners do better and succeed at what they, up to now, considered to be "their" sport. Either that or the country as a whole is going to have to learn or relearn what it took to get them to that level in the first place.

[craftsman]

Asashoryu blasts sumo match-fixing report

Asashoryu is not a happy man:

It's very disturbing the report was about something that could never ever happen...I'll sue them if they write nonsense like that...I've won 20 titles, and I want to say what's the problem with getting strong.

Of all the current sumo wrestlers he is probably the least in need of any assistance in defeating his opponents so he's quite right to be angry.

However...corruption is thought to be widely suspected in sumo and although it has been very difficult to prove, reports like this one give "overwhelming" statistical evidence that match rigging in sumo wrestling is common place.

Here are some of the conclusions:

• The system of promotion whereby 8 wins are needed encourages corruption- wrestlers win a disproportionate share of the matches when they are on the margin of the 8 wins. Increased effort cannot explain the findings.
• Match rigging disappears in times of increased media scrutiny.
• Wrestlers who are victorious when they need their 8th win, lose more frequently than would be expected the next time they meet that opponent, suggesting that part of the payment for throwing a match is future payment in-kind.
• Reciprocity agreements between stables of wrestlers appear to exist, suggesting that collusive behavior is not carried out solely by individuals.

[KirinMan]

craftsman thanks for the update however the link you provided in this paragraph

However...corruption is thought to be widely suspected in sumo and although it has been very difficult to prove, reports like this one give "overwhelming" statistical evidence that match rigging in sumo wrestling is common place.

gives this error message;

The document you searched does not exist or has been moved or deleted.

I hope he does sue them and that he is found to be not guilty. I like Asashoryu and want to continue to see him win.

Thanks again for the information.

[craftsman]

Sorry. It was the PDF file. Try this link

The PDF file can be downloaded from this site.

[KirinMan]

Thanks, this one worked. Looks interesting.

Oh I wanted to add, do you happen to remember back when Takanohana and his older brother Wakanohana fought each other on the last day of the sumo tournament?

It was the first time in sumo history that brothers, from the same beya faced off against each other. As you probably know, in sumo, wrestlers from the same beya never face off against each other unless they both finish with the same record and are fighting for the championship of a major tournament. "Yusho ketei sen"

Anyway in this case Wakanohana beat Takanohana but the manner in which Takanohana lost seemed to me at least to look like Takanohana just fell down "letting" his brother win, and through winning gain promotion to Yokozuna, because the victory gave him as an Ozeki two tournament championships in a row.

I don't recall anyone ever "officially" logging a complaint against either one of them at that time because they were considered to be "prince's" of sumo at the time.

In my opinion the allegations against Asashoryu stem from the fact that he is Mongolian. I also think that if he, Asashoryu, happened to be a native born Japanese wrestler people would never think to make these kinds of accusations.

[Uchite]

Originally Posted by Obeika

In my opinion Japanese people are just going to have to get used to seeing foreigners do better and succeed at what they, up to now, considered to be "their" sport. Either that or the country as a whole is going to have to learn or relearn what it took to get them to that level in the first place.

Well, that is a natural thing to be expected with Japanese Budo being exported world-wide. But I think Sumo is an exception. Maybe I just don't know about it, but I have not heard of any Sumo stables outside of Japan. Maybe there are.

But when Anton Geesnik won the 1964 Summer Olympics defeating Akio Kaminaga, it shook Japan. But on the other side of the coin, look at what has happened to Judo since then! It is not what Dr. Jigoro Kano intended it to be originally by any means.

So my point is, even if gaijin do start beating the Japanese in their own sports and/or martial arts in competition, it does not necessarily mean they are improving them as a whole.

[KirinMan]

So my point is, even if gaijin do start beating the Japanese in their own sports and/or martial arts in competition, it does not necessarily mean they are improving them as a whole.

I think I see the beginings of an interesting discussion here. Thank you.

I would like to ask the question of what do you consider needs to be done to improve upon the sport? Do you think that by keeping sumo "Japanese" only will or could improve the sport as well? I'm not too sure because I don't see younger Japanese boys being interested in the lifestyle that sumo wrestlers must lead until they rise in the ranks. Even the "famous" former rikshi, now an "oyakatta", Takanohana is having a hard time finding wrestlers for his beya.

I think one could use the example of baseball and basketball in the US as an example here. Currently two of arguably best basketball players in the NBA, if you accept that league as being the best in the world, come from Canada and Germany. Yet the game is traditionally accepted as being an American sport. Baseball too, one of, if not the best player in that sport comes from the Dominican Republic. So one could argue that by increasing the number of participants world wide in the sport one is "improving" it. But I guess it depends on what your definition of improvement is right?

I know that there are amateur sumo wrestlers in many places in Europe. They even have held tournaments where women participate as well. So even though sumo is a Japanese martial art people in other countries are participating in it as well. So in effect, to me at least, they are helping to improve the sport by making people around the world more aware of Japan and one part of it's cultural heritage.

Oh after I get past the magic point of 20 posts I will come back and include a link to the European Sumo Union, or you could google sumo in europe and hit the link yourself. It's eurosumo.com Sorry about that. Oh I also forgot to add that there is also an American Sumo Union as well which you can find at sumoamerica.com.

[Iron Chef]

Re: improving a traditonally Japanese sport, one could look at Kumdo which was developed/derived from Japanese Kendo by the Koreans about a hundred years ago. Every three years they send a national team to compete in the WKC (World Kendo Championships) and are consistently at or near the top. They are also the only other country other than Japan (which traditonally dominates) to hold the honor of having won the men's team championship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumdo

p.s. Asashoryu would never fix a match imo. I've followed his career the last couple years and i'm always amazed watching him dominate consistently time after time with the occasional loss. I would suspect his amazing success is due to his incredible physical prowess as an athelete and strict regimental training over anyone's suggestion of match-fixing. Watch the way he wrestles--always a 110%, and if he loses no one is more dissapointed than himself, it's pretty self-evident. Although... this does raise some interesting issues and i'm sure matches have been fixed before in the past and most likely will continue to be by certain less than scrupulous stable owners, officials, etc. at all levels of competition.

[leonmarino]

All I know is I read "Freakonomics", a book by Levitt, and he discusses the probability that the whole sumo thing is fixed.. It sounded pretty reasonable.

[Uchite]

Originally Posted by Obeika

I think I see the beginings of an interesting discussion here. Thank you.

You are welcome!

Originally Posted by Obeika

I would like to ask the question of what do you consider needs to be done to improve upon the sport?.

I really am not sure. I would think mainly to try to keep its traditional values alive within it and not let it become something so money-orientated as boxing has become.

Originally Posted by Obeika

Do you think that by keeping sumo "Japanese" only will or could improve the sport as well?

Not necessarily. But I understand the Japanese reluctance to let it become Westernized. I think what could improve Sumo is to not let Western sporting ideals and rules start governing and changing Sumo from what it originally was and was meant to be.

Originally Posted by Obeika

I know that there are amateur sumo wrestlers in many places in Europe. They even have held tournaments where women participate as well. So even though sumo is a Japanese martial art people in other countries are participating in it as well. So in effect, to me at least, they are helping to improve the sport by making people around the world more aware of Japan and one part of it's cultural heritage.

An interesting and good point. As long as is not a Westernized version of Sumo that would be pretending to be the real thing.

[KirinMan]

I really am not sure. I would think mainly to try to keep its traditional values alive within it and not let it become something so money-orientated as boxing has become.

That's a great point as well, yet I haven't seen that happen so far. But you never know. If the popularity of the sport continues to fall, mostly due to the lack of Japanese wrestlers wrestling in the upper ranks, particularly Yokozuna, money may become a problem.

But I understand the Japanese reluctance to let it become Westernized.

I agree with this as well, however certain traditions, like not allowing a female onto the ring, in my opinion, is one tradition that should be let go by the wayside. I am not suggesting that they allow female sumo wrestlers, but allow females to present awards on the final day of the tournament. A few years back this became an issue as it is tradition for the Prefectural Govenor to to give a prize to the tournament champion and the Gov. at the time, in I think it was Osaka was a female. The Sumo Association absolutely refused her the "honor" of presenting the trophy.

I think what could improve Sumo is to not let Western sporting ideals and rules start governing and changing Sumo from what it originally was and was meant to be.

I agree, however I don't see what rules or traditions that could be "westernized" in the actual practice of sumo. Maybe some training and diet techniques, but other than that I don't know. I know that sumo, as much as many people enjoy watching it, is not a sport that promotes long life, many of the wrestlers are diabetic and have bad backs purely because of their diet and excessive weight. Many also do not live beyond the age of 50 or 60, and this is in a country that has the longest life expectancy rate in the world. I think that part of the appeal of sumo is the size of the wrestler and their agility when they are so big, but I also think that sumo could be just as appealling with wrestlers that are much more athletic and even more mobile. They would live longer that's for sure. Well I guess anyway.

As long as is not a Westernized version of Sumo that would be pretending to be the real thing

Outside of the women that participate, and from the matches that I have seen on TV here in Japan, they seem to follow the rules of sumo.

Sorry more later I have to run just now...thanks for the reply.

[Uchite]

Originally Posted by Obeika

I agree with this as well, however certain traditions, like not allowing a female onto the ring, in my opinion, is one tradition that should be let go by the wayside. I am not suggesting that they allow female sumo wrestlers, but allow females to present awards on the final day of the tournament.

I really don't know enough about the history and traditions of Sumo to comment on this, but I can only guess this comes from very old Japan traditions. On a deeper level, I think it may have do also do with keeping Sumo ever from being any kind of "exhibition", or an excuse for any kind of "exhibition", if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Obeika

A few years back this became an issue as it is tradition for the Prefectural Govenor to to give a prize to the tournament champion and the Gov. at the time, in I think it was Osaka was a female. The Sumo Association absolutely refused her the "honor" of presenting the trophy.

Now here is where it gets sticky. But actually, I have to hand it to the Sumo Association to sticking to their guns and not being "politically correct" and giving in and making an exception for a politician no matter male or female. Good for the Sumo Association!

Originally Posted by Obeika

I agree, however I don't see what rules or traditions that could be "westernized" in the actual practice of sumo. Maybe some training and diet techniques, but other than that I don't know.

I was thinking more on the lines of "Round number girls" (as in Western Boxing), use of Western clothing preferred and no longer wearing the mawashi, the gyoji wearning Western clothing and that somewhat stupid looking bow-tie that boxing referees wear, the dyuho-iri being dropped altogetger and the dyuho being changed to and/or surrounded by a wrestling mat Pay Per View type commercialism, UFC fighters, professional wrestlers and boxers being allowed to come in and "challenge" Sumo tori...that kind of nonsense. And most of all, the Shinto aspects gradually taken out. Wouldn't that be a disaster?!

Sumo is one of Japan's last traditional cultural arts that has not been changed and modified from its original form. It has to be kept alive!

Thanks for the conversation!

[maushan3]

You just cannot trust everything you read or see in tv. Rumors exist and people do it to take others down. It might be true, but you can never be too sure.

Mauricio