Virginia Tech school shooting

[maushan3]

Today, something really awful happened: 32 students were killed in a college shooting.

A student or students killed 33 people and wounded 29 on a shooting rampage on VT campus in Virginia, U.S. Look into more details for this ongoing event. It's still a developing story, many victims haven't been identified and the suspect's name has been withheld.

This is the deadliest school shooting ever in the United States.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vte...ing/index.html

Any comments. Why do you think someone would do such horrible thing?

My condolences to all people affected by this.

Mauricio

[Uncle Frank]

The thing that caught my ear was the shooter was an Asian male. Let's hope there are no copy cats who decide to beat the record. As much as I like guns, things like this are scary. I feel sorry for all the family and friends who are suffering from their lose.

Uncle Frank

[Duo]

Tragedies like this are always horrible. It would be interesting to know what pushed this person/persons do do such a thing. Having so many guns being so easily accessible certainly doesn't help to prevent such things, i think that's also a big part of the problem

[den4]

always sad when idiots take the lives of others along with their own....

[misa.j]

So many fatalities and injured people...how could anyone do such a horrible thing.

It said that there had been two bomb threats, one earlier this month and another last Friday causing the cancellation of the calsses and evacuation of the building, which made me wonder if the shooting was related to those threats.

[Uncle Frank]

it started with the guy killing a girl, maybe his girlfriend? After he shot the two women in a dorm he disappeared for an hour before he showed up on the other side of the campus to kill again. The media will probably tell 10 different stories before the real truth comes out.

Uncle Frank

[Dutch Baka]

Terrible that this happened (it's even worse than the Columbine shooting), I haven't read much about it yet but I did see something on the Japanese news about it.

I don't think it's a gun thing, but a society thing.

[Supervin]

I just read too. Quite shocking. With that, the gun issue would definitely be under fire again.

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by Duo

Tragedies like this are always horrible.

They are aren't they, and in no way am I trying to belittle the events that occured there today I would like to add, that unfortunately stuff like this happens nearly everyday in Iraq and all we get are the body counts in the news.

I pray for all the victims of violence such as this, not only in America but everywhere else in the world as well. I also pray in my own way for the survivors of both the victims and the culprits.

When will American's wake up?

[Sarapva]

This happened in my own state, Virginia, and I even attended this college, Virginia Tech, for a year in the '80s. It's shocking that this could happen there - it's such a peaceful, mountain college town. But then there was the shooting of the Amish children in Pennsylvania, people who are peaceful and didn't deserve this kind of thing coming into their community. I have no idea what causes a person to end up killing himself and others - it's akin to the suicide bombings in Iraq. There must be a lot of anger from somewhere, and a feeling of not having control, so this is the way they take some control. Any psychologists out there who might shed some light on why a person would do this sort of thing?

[maushan3]

always sad when idiots take the lives of others along with their own....

It is sad, but, I mean, I know it sounds harsh, if someone wants to suicide, he doesn't have to tell everyone he'll suicide (like for example, when someone jumps off a bridge and the cops have to come in action to tell him to please stop doing), those people just should suicide and not make a fuss off it. But this is very sad when someone kills innocent people just because he's angered at the world.

I don't think it's a gun thing, but a society thing.

Which reminds me: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are just an easy way to kill, but even if they don't existed, people would kill anyways.

Also, this might go into a whole different thread... but I've noticed that the vast majorities of school tragedies among teens in America are with guns, and in Japan are with knives. Any thoughts on this??

Mauricio

[KirinMan]

but I've noticed that the vast majorities of school tragedies among teens in America are with guns, and in Japan are with knives. Any thoughts on this??

Quite simply.......it's due to the gun control laws.

A Japanese friend of mine said to me today, in his opinion, "If the gun laws here were as lax as they are in the states then shootings like this one would occur here as well".

Which reminds me: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are just an easy way to kill, but even if they don't existed, people would kill anyways.

True enough, if somebody wants to kill someone else they don't need a gun to do it, just ask all those human IED's.

[justin]

God be with the families of the victims. Poor kids just going to college reaching for the stars.

[Elizabeth]

It said that there had been two bomb threats, one earlier this month and another last Friday causing the cancellation of the calsses and evacuation of the building, which made me wonder if the shooting was related to those threats.

They should obviously also have cancelled classes and locked down the campus after the first shooting. That part of the security response I think is going to be very difficult for a lot of people to ever accept.

In the same way, its a lot more efficient to prevent crimes like this from happening with stricter gun control than to try and change society, dangerous people from the inside or take the calculated risk that a situation is under control. The latter is what appears to have happened here and all my thoughts and prayers to the victims and their loved ones tonight.

[ArmandV]

I just read about it. Naturally, the usual knee-jerk reaction from liberals will be for more gun control.

My feeling is that the school was caught flat-footed in not having an effective reaction. Surely, after Columbine, schools would have put into place reaction plans. How can they allow a rampage like this to go on for so long? Obviously, there's a story that is developing.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by ArmandV

I just read about it. Naturally, the usual knee-jerk reaction from liberals will be for more gun control.
My feeling is that the school was caught flat-footed in not having an effective reaction. Surely, after Columbine, schools would have put into place reaction plans. How can they allow a rampage like this to go on for so long? Obviously, there's a story that is developing.

Frankly I could really care less how long it went on and whether the school had an effective reaction, whatever. My workplace is also very vulnerable to something like this. If a dangerous person with a gun walks into a class or workplace determined to kill as many people as possible, most likely a lot of people are going to die. Period.

And the only way to stop it before with absolute certainty before it happens is with gun control. But I guess we'll have to wait for the disproportionate power of a small number of hunters and sportsman to diminish before the absolute right to own a handgun built to kill humans is gone. It really is a bizarre and unjust world out there.

[KirinMan]

You know there is one solution that just might work, make it a law that all US citizens of voting age MUST carry a personal defense device, a handgun, whenever they go out of the confines of their place of residence.

Make it an offense punishible by lets say 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine if caught without one.

And to the people that say "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns..." that's right, no matter where one lives in this world it is impossible to prevent all actions like this.

Quit making excuses about "rights", these kids that died today had the "right" to live. I am truly saddened by this shooting, and will be the next time it happens, because I'll bet one year of my earnings that it will happen again.


Heck even in Japan, here tonight, at @8:00PM the Mayor of Nagasaki was shot by a gun weilding "person".

[Sukotto]

i got this forwarded to me

"Worst Mass Shooting in US History"

History differs from the claims of the corporate media.

Bear River Massacre January 29th, 1863, Col. Patrick Connor leads a regiment killing at least 200 Indian men, women and children near Preston, Idaho.

Gunther Island Massacre, February 26th, 1860, At least 100 Wiyot Indians, mostly women and children, are slaughtered by white settlers in Humboldt County, California, during one of three simultaneous assaults on the Wiyot

Bloody Island Massacre Spring 1850, The murder of up to 200 Pomo people on an island near Upper Lake, California by Nathaniel Lyon and his U. S. Army detachment, in retribution for the killing of two Clear Lake settlers who had been abusing and murdering Pomo people.

Wounded Knee Massacre, December 29th 1890, Around 300 Sioux men, women and children are massacred by US soldiers at Wounded Knee, South Dakota.

Marias Massacre, January 23rd, 1870, White Americans slaughter 173 Piegans, mainly women, children and the elderly.

Virginia Tech Rampage, April 16, 2007, A lone gunman killed at least 31 people at Virginia Tech campus.

[KirinMan]

Hey Sukotto nice post......another incident of selective journalism.

[Pachipro]

So, the killer was a 23 yr old exchange student from S. Korea. As a foreigner he cannot legally buy a gun therefore he had to get them illegally. It will be interesting to hear how he obtained them. I wonder how many people thought it was just another crazy American?

As has been said above, Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. Many countries have outlawed the sale of firearms and their crime went up. Austrailia is one example. After they outlawed the private ownership of guns, crime (not necessarily gun crime) went up substantially as the criminals were now not afraid to rob someone or rob their house as they were pretty sure their victim wouldn't have a gun. Also, the criminal needn't have a gun to commit his crime. A knife or screwdriver will do well as long as he's sure his intended victim is probably not armed.

With the millions and millions of guns already sold in America it will impossible to ban them. Besides, it is guaranteed by the second ammendment. Also, in cities and states that allow you to have firearms in your home, crime has significantly decreased. In fact, I believe there are even a few cities here in the US that request or require all households to have firearms and that the citizens can legally have them on their person. And in all cases the crime in those areas has dwindled to almost nothing. Why? Because criminals are afraid of being shot that's why. It's only when the criminal is pretty sure that their intended victim doesn't have a firearm do they strike.

Again, as in any country, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns! Guns are forbidden in Japan, but the Yakuza can easily obtain them. Obeika even mentioned that the mayor of Kawasaki was shot yesterday. Same in England and other countries that do not allow firearms. Many cities in the US forbid the private ownership of guns and crime is way up.

The S. Korean student could've easily strapped explosives to himself and blew himself up in a class room. Same outcome.

He could've easily brought two cans of gasoline to the classroom and lit a match. Same outcome.

He could've easily had explosives in his car and blew it up on campus in a crowd. Same outcome.

He could've easily driven his car into a crowd of students at high speed and kept on doing it. Same outcome.

He could've easily made some pipe bombs and placed them strategically around school. Same outcome.

There are many ways he could've killed many people. The point is that if a person is really intent on killing many people he will find a way. If not by gun it will be some other way. To blame it solely on guns and their easily availability in the US shows severe ignorance and a severe lack of common sense. It is so easy for others in other countries to put America down because of it. As has been said before, Guns don't kill people, people do!

You can't just outlaw guns thinking that crime will go down because in a country like America it won't. Where there is a will there is a way. If a criminal wants to commit a crime or kill many people he will whether he can get firearms or not. What is needed is more stringent enforcement of the laws already on the books and let's face it, here in America, unlike Japan and many other countries, people just don't give a damn about the next person because the laws are too lax and there are too many repeat offenders. America has the highest percentage of their population in jail than any other major nation on earth and the majority of them are not in jail because they used a gun when commiting a crime! The problem goes way deeper than that, to the core of society, to family and social values. That's what needs to be addressed first.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Pachipro

So, the killer was a 23 yr old exchange student from S. Korea. As a foreigner he cannot legally buy a gun therefore he had to get them illegally. It will be interesting to hear how he obtained them. I wonder how many people thought it was just another crazy American?
As has been said above, Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. Many countries have outlawed the sale of firearms and their crime went up. Austrailia is one example. After they outlawed the private ownership of guns, crime (not necessarily gun crime) went up substantially as the criminals were now not afraid to rob someone or rob their house as they were pretty sure their victim wouldn't have a gun. Also, the criminal needn't have a gun to commit his crime. A knife or screwdriver will do well as long as he's sure his intended victim is probably not armed.

The number of victims is going to much less in these types of offenses for the simple reason it is a one on one attack. No spray of bullets richocheting off buildings across the street, no accidental deaths from poorly stored weapons....and potentially much more time to react to the draw of a knife or screwdriver.

The S. Korean student could've easily strapped explosives to himself and blew himself up in a class room. Same outcome.
He could've easily brought two cans of gasoline to the classroom and lit a match. Same outcome.
He could've easily had explosives in his car and blew it up on campus in a crowd. Same outcome.
He could've easily driven his car into a crowd of students at high speed and kept on doing it. Same outcome.
He could've easily made some pipe bombs and placed them strategically around school. Same outcome.
There are many ways he could've killed many people. The point is that if a person is really intent on killing many people he will find a way. If not by gun it will be some other way.

That's true if a potential perpetrator has the means to secretly plan and execute a complicated method of attack to kill themselves as well themselves and others and where there are no restrictions on the purchase of bomb making materials. You aren't likely to find many people fired from their jobs in the morning that come back at noon to blow the office down by an improvised explosive, however.

[Han Chan]

Originally Posted by Pachipro

So, the killer was a 23 yr old exchange student from S. Korea. As a foreigner he cannot legally buy a gun therefore he had to get them illegally. It will be interesting to hear how he obtained them. I wonder how many people thought it was just another crazy American?

I do not think that all the gun violence in USA is happening because the americans are particularly crazy. However, everywere people go crazy for all sorts of reasons - often jealosy. In countries with easy access to guns things tend to go really bad.

The americans are not crazy, but the gun culture is.

[Pachipro]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

The number of victims is going to much less in these types of offenses for the simple reason it is a one on one attack. No spray of bullets richocheting off buildings across the street, no accidental deaths from poorly stored weapons....and potentially much more time to react to the draw of a knife or screwdriver.

You have a point, but....

Originally Posted by Han Chan

The americans are not crazy, but the gun culture is.

The gun culture is not crazy. If people want to commit mass murder they will, regardless of the availability of guns or not. You can say the gun culture is crazy because maybe guns are not allowed in your own country and you don't completely understand the US culture, but even if all guns were outlawed tomorrow and none were available, there would still be mass killings on the same scale that would cause others to think we are a crazy country. They would just use other means. It's the society and culture in general, not guns.

[sabro]

This is truly senseless. Condolences, prayers and thoughts for all the victims and the people who love them.

[kirei_na_me]

This happened just an hour and a half drive away from me. Many people I know go there, including someone very close to me(and a member of this forum), Hideki_Matsui_Beast.

Thank goodness he is ok, and everyone else I know is, but there are so many more people who have been affected by this. It's so hard to imagine this happening in this area, which is always seemingly so serene.

Virginia Tech is a beautiful, and normally, peaceful campus. It's in Blacksburg, which is a town much like the one HMB and I are from. It has been very difficult to swallow for everyone around here.

HMB is covering the story for our county paper, which is a weekly publication, and when it comes out online tomorrow, I'll post it so that you all can read it.

So tragic.

Oh, and by the way, in the state of Virginia, an alien can buy a gun if they can prove that they are a resident of the state and if they have never committed a felony.

It's way too easy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_...LaQrIHRfNH2ocA