Officially Sickened

[Ewok85]

As the title says, I have been officially sickened by this news article that I have just read on Japan Today. I do no suggest reading the entire thing unless you are sure that you want to, I skipped a bit.

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/shukan/395

And I'm not sure what to say. Its hard to blame the passengers outright, for all we know there was noone but 80yr old women in the same carriage, but noone said, reported or did anything at all, including the victim.

And this disturbs me. Greatly. Because in the end those women could be anyone, it could be someone close to you like your wife or children. It could be a friend. Even though I don't know them I am still outraged that nothing was done at all to prevent this despite it happening in public, in full view.

I am not going to start a rant about Japanese specifically, because this sort of stuff happens overseas, and I'm not going to start a "what if I was there" rant either, because fact is, I wasn't. We can all talk big here, but thats not where it matters. Reading this would be a start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Personally this is one waste of oxygen that I hope gets the rope, or the very least some vigilante justice.

[maushan3]

Very disturbing to read, yet this needs to be talked about, a serious issue. Well, this thing certainly shows what the world has come to. It shocked me to read that the rapist didn't care there were over 40 passengers on the train at the same time. I could understand to some extent the bystanders to not do anything supposing they were threatened by the rapist and that many of them didn't know what was going on as they were minding their own business. But, I bet some people knew what was going on, and the thing that shocked me most is that no one, except the victim reported this to the police. That's the least they could do to help as citizens.

We should be very worried about this since anyone close to us could be next, right, Leon?

Mauricio

[Dutch Baka]

It makes me sad to read this, that nobody did a thing. If you are afraid to stand up and say something to the guy is one thing, but if you can't even report it to the police or call the train conductor... It's crazy.

[nice gaijin]

Absolutely sick; a lot could have been done to prevent this from happening, and here it's happened multiple times.

[Mike Cash]

Don't know what happened, and seriously do not want to know. But the content of the thread thus far made me think of relating something that happened on the train back from the JREF meet the other day.

A school sports team got on the train in Maebashi. From their conversation I could tell they were going to Kiryu, as I was. Halfway there, the person next to me got up and their teacher sat down next to me. A little farther along, more seats opened up and a couple of the boys plopped down on the bench across the carriage and threw their rather massive backpacks down in the aisle of the train, completely filling the aisle from side-to-side, and lengthwise to the extent that no one could possibly step over them to get to the door.

I leaned over and quietly made sure the person next to me was in fact their teacher. He said he was. I asked him shouldn't he instruct the boys to put their bags on the overhead rack. He said yes, then sat there like a bump on a log. So in a loud and firm voice I called the boys and told them to put their bags up. They quietly complied. A few people seated nearby looked pleasantly surprised and gave me smiles.

I asked the teacher what school they were from. It happened to be one I used to live across the street from for several years. I had long experience with that school's arrogant disregard for the inconvenience they caused everyone in the neighborhood, and voiced that to the teacher loud and clear.

Outside the station the kids' parents had come to pick them up. While they were having a brief meeting with the teacher I debated walking over and talking with the parents. But I decided that if they hadn't taught their kids common decency and consideration for others by now, the likelihood that they would start was nil, so I dropped it and went home.

[RockLee]

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave
The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by RockLee

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave

The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

Was that directed to me in particular? Or was it a general commentary?

[Uncle Frank]

2 years ago a mentally ill 23 year old stomped and kicked an old man to death in the parking lot of a big grocery store. When the police got there there were over twenty people watching but no one had the courage to step in. I guess sometimes peoples minds are too shocked to react? I guess these things can happen anywhere in the world, not just in Japan.
Uncle Frank

[marsans]

That story is horrifying! The poor women, I cant even begin to imagine the trials she will have to endure for the rest of her life, fear, paranoia, and probably a loss of faith in humanity!

It disgusts me that human beings can commit these sort of heinous acts to other human beings, Japanese or not!

[MeAndroo]

Certainly the murder of Kitty Genovese in the wiki link provided by the OP draws parallels to this story, but the woman on the train did not cry out for help, despite the supposed close proximity of other passengers. Was she only scared, as she told the police, or was there a subconscious understanding on her part that even if she cried out for aid, it was unlikely anyone would do anything?

I remember being on a train when a woman got caught in the doors as they closed. She had a good 40% of her person on the inside of the train and the doors wouldn't open, but nobody moved to help her. I grabbed a door and pulled and once people saw that, a couple of other young guys helped out as well. I'm sure the station personnel wouldn't have allowed the train to leave with a passenger caught in a door, but I wonder how long it would have taken for someone to help her.

This story is a truly disturbing and saddening image of any society.

[SushiShin]

this has nothing to with japanese people! in fact japanese people are very friendly! this would be more something for europe but for japanese people??? i never tought they wouldn't do anything?? pity to hear about the first victim and then about the victim in august =( i wish that somebody took crime very hard.

[maushan3]

Originally Posted by Herbal☆

this has nothing to with japanese people! in fact japanese people are very friendly! this would be more something for europe but for japanese people??? i never tought they wouldn't do anything?? pity to hear about the first victim and then about the victim in august =( i wish that somebody took crime very hard.

This has nothing to do with a nationality. It all comes down to the individual.

Mauricio

[SushiShin]

uhu like i said crime doesn't pay! i hope the crime in japan is lesser then in Belgium or the Philippines

[DoctorP]

Originally Posted by RockLee

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave

Seems that everyone who lives in Japan eventually utters these words!

The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

This is actually a good thing when you compare it to life in America, but it is sad that the Japanese take it a bit too far!

[Nall-ohki]

Whenever I hear stuff like this, I always put myself into the situation and think "Would I have done differently?" This always leads me to entertain the idea that I could be a hero, and makes me feel somewhat superior. I'm fairly sure that this way of thinking is not limited to me.

That said, I don't know what to say about this... it is POSSIBLE from what they said that only a few people did notice, and those people were cowed into not doing anything... but I'm not buying it.

Like the original poster said, there is definitely a syndrome like this that is not specific to Japanese people. One of the most famous examples of this in America is of Kitty Genovese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

Stuff like this happens, and it's terrible. Not sure what we can do about it, though - all the measures were in place - people saw what was happening, they could have went to the train people or press an emergency button, but they didn't. We can't really account for lay people's actions in a crisis.

[DoctorP]

I read the entire story, and the way it is written, I have to believe that not very many people saw anything. Probably at the most 3-4 people. That is still too many, but depending upon whether they themselves were women, elderly, or what not would depend on whether I expect them to react. It states in the article that most passengers on this train are either salarymen (who sleep on trains) or old ladies.


I had the opportunity to help two ladies who were in an accident once and were badly hurt. There were probably 20 people around watching, but no one assisted but me. A few weeks later I met the women and their families again and they all said they were grateful for my help and that they know they could not have done the same things themselves.

[Ewok85]

Originally Posted by Uncle Frank

I guess sometimes peoples minds are too shocked to react? I guess these things can happen anywhere in the world, not just in Japan.
Uncle Frank

See the wiki link in the first post ;) You are right on the money on there being a recognized psychological effect. But it still doesn't excuse them.

Originally Posted by RockLee

Welcome to Japanese society ! If you don't like it, you can always leave
The fact everybody cares only about his own business is something typically Japanese, and you can't help that.

RockLee - wonderful attitude there. To expand on this one incident, we have someone who has committed rape in public, with at least 40 witness', including the train conductor (who has failed in his duty of care to look after the safety of the passengers), and not one person said stop, called the police, or informed station or train staff. Not one.

You know what thats called? Spineless. These people are just as bad as the rapist in my own mind.

And if thats what Japanese society is, well, things are pretty screwed, are they not?

And I wouldn't say its a Japanese trait, I would say its just a trait of weak Japanese. Which leads to...

Originally Posted by maushan3

This has nothing to do with a nationality. It all comes down to the individual.

Excellent quote!

Its has everything to do with the individual.

Originally Posted by Nall-ohki

Stuff like this happens, and it's terrible. Not sure what we can do about it, though - all the measures were in place - people saw what was happening, they could have went to the train people or press an emergency button, but they didn't. We can't really account for lay people's actions in a crisis.

Its simple - why did it happen how it did? Because not one of those individuals on the train spoke out. Why? Because not one of them have the courage and confidence to do so. So whats the solution? Give people the courage, make people gain the confidence.

Individuals make up a society. And a society where everyone lacks courage and confidence will be run by the one who can bully them into doing what they want, and we'll be off bombing Pearl Harbor and invading our neighbors again in no time.

[storeyinallinanyways]

This is just awful

The more I see and learn about how crime is handled in Japan, the less I like. I can't believe that no-one came forward or at least reported the first incident - it probably would have prevented the further incidents in January. And if Ms. A reported it after she got off the train why didn't the police pursue the matter - rape is a serious allegation, not something that one would make up for the fun of it!

Brings to mind other recent events (Carita and Lucy).

Sometimes I really don't like this country.

[thistle]

I had read this story a few weeks ago and felt sickened, but had not seen this more detailed report.

It is very easy to look the other way, turn a blind eye, and it is something the japanese are very good at. The lack of courage and how apathetic the japanese people are is something that never ceases to amaze me.

[Dutch Baka]

Originally Posted by RockLee

Welcome to Japanese society !

Well my wife is Japanese and I know that she would do something (she maybe wouldn't jump into it but she would for sure got some train conductor. ) My mother in law would do that same.

Don't say 40 Japanese are the same as the whole Japanese society, that's too easy.

[Ewok85]

Originally Posted by Dutch Baka

Don't say 40 Japanese are the same as the whole Japanese society, that's too easy.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the double meaning when he brushed off this topic like nothing happened at all.

[Mike Cash]

An American friend of mine, a fellow who was previously employed helping Japanese professional wrestlers train, once encountered on the subway in Tokyo a chikan who was starting to put his moves on a Japanese woman.

He rather forcefully helped the fellow off the train.

[hanachan]

Originally Posted by CC1

I read the entire story, and the way it is written, I have to believe that not very many people saw anything. Probably at the most 3-4 people. That is still too many, but depending upon whether they themselves were women, elderly, or what not would depend on whether I expect them to react. It states in the article that most passengers on this train are either salarymen (who sleep on trains) or old ladies.

He explained more about this case. Thanks.
But I have to say for their honor.
The rapist and victim girl were seated on the second row.
The nearest lavatory was the forward car.
Do you understand?
They passed only one row before them. Almost 40 people were behind.
August 3, 2006 was Thursday. People worked and were going home.
It's easy to imagine that they were sleeping or listening to music with headphone set.
Really they didn't notice what happened... I think.
If they noticed the unusual thing, they would do something.

The victim girl went to the police at Osaka terminal? (I'm not sure)
40 passengers also got off there and went away.
Can they be identified later?

I think that media is sometimes unfair.

[Dutch Baka]

Originally Posted by hanachan

It's easy to imagine that they were sleeping or listening to music with headphone set.
Really they didn't notice what happened... I think.
If they noticed the unusual thing, they would do something.

When someone is getting sexually harrased I am pretty sure someone will hear that, if they have headphones on or if they are sleeping.

I am sure that not everyone have heard it, but some must have heard something wasn't right.

Some passengers probably heard her crying. There has been a lot of criticism that no one noticed what was happening between the two. "Apparently, some passengers did notice what was going on, but they decided to look the other way when Uezono yelled at them: 'What the hell are you looking at!’” police said.

These people who were looking the other way could have walked to the train conducter or could have reported it later on at the train station.

The media have their tricks sometimes but don't think this is such a small thing because i'm sure it have happened a lot more (where was the media at that time) that something happened and people just didn't do a damm thing... (it happends a lot in the Netherlands as well recently)

[Philip]

This is shocking... I hate rapists, they are the lowest. But, why on earth didn't anybody interfere! Maybe it's becuase, people don't want to get hurt. But then again, so many people, and they are afraid of one person!? I don't get it...