Kyuma apologizes, retracts comment on atomic bombing

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I was really very surprised this morning when I read the Asahi News on line.

The Defense Minister Fumio Kyuma said that the A bombs had protected Japan against being divided occupation of Japan by America and Russia.

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...707020115.html

I hope that many of you will tell me what you think of this news

[KirinMan]

Probably just another "mis-statement" in an ever growing line of government officials here following along with the current administration's inability to keep their feet out of their mouths.

[Ewok85]

No no no no NO.

He has not retracted his statement. He has not apologised for what he said.

He apologised if he was mis-interpreted and caused offence

This is a HUGE difference!

The Asahi article is horribly worded and its translation of the Japanese is also abysmal.

""I am sorry that my remarks gave an impression that A-bomb victims were made light of," meaning is clear.

According to the Japan Times he also said "There is no need to correct the remarks. If they were misinterpreted, however, I have to explain closely."

Kyuma is a Nagasaki native. He knows the score. He was speaking his opinion, which according to some Japanese is now a crime (well, if they don't like it that is).

The best translation I have seen: "I understand the bombing (in Nagasaki) brought the war to its end. I think it was something that couldn't be helped."

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Ewok85,

I am just a layman in this field, but I guess you are right. Germany was divided in four occupied parts after the war, but Russia of course was by far the worst!
So I guess he means that if the north of Japan had been occupied by Russia, that would have been a nightmare. But this statement doesn't make the A-bombs any better of course.
That is what I understood. But I can very well imagine that the A-bomb victims are deeply hurt. They take it personally.
And as you say Ewok85, he himself comes from Nagasaki.

Thank you for your explanation, telling that it was Mr.Kyuma's opinion.

[KirinMan]

He knows the score. He was speaking his opinion, which according to some Japanese is now a crime

He should watch his mouth, he isnt Joe Blow on the street taking a survey. Opinions become policy at his level.

[Ewok85]

Originally Posted by Obeika

He should watch his mouth, he isnt Joe Blow on the street taking a survey. Opinions become policy at his level.

So? He still has a right to an opinion, and what he said was pure opinion - he wasn't making judgement or making a statement, merely "I understand that..." - explaining something that he personally felt.

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by Ewok85

So? He still has a right to an opinion, and what he said was pure opinion - he wasn't making judgement or making a statement, merely "I understand that..." - explaining something that he personally felt.

Ok then if one is to follow your logic here then there is nothing wrong with the Health minister making the statement that women are "baby making machines" either.

It is just "his" opinion.

[JimmySeal]

It's quite refreshing to see a Japanese politician show some semblance of b@11s about this matter, after all the lies and disingenuous crap thrown around about this subject. As I understand it, when Japan started losing the war, Japan turned to Russia for assistance and Russia responded by declaring war on them. Japan's military and government were pretty much off their collective rocker at that point. If the US hadn't ended the conflict quickly, the country quite possibly could have been split in half between USA and Russia.

[Ewok85]

Originally Posted by Obeika

Ok then if one is to follow your logic here then there is nothing wrong with the Health minister making the statement that women are "baby making machines" either.
It is just "his" opinion.

That was made during a diet session while he was working in an offical capacity. Thats a world apart from what happened here.

Originally Posted by JimmySeal

It's quite refreshing to see a Japanese politician show some semblance of b@11s about this matter, after all the lies and disingenuous crap thrown around about this subject. As I understand it, when Japan started losing the war, Japan turned to Russia for assistance and Russia responded by declaring war on them. Japan's military and government were pretty much off their collective rocker at that point. If the US hadn't ended the conflict quickly, the country quite possibly could have been split in half between USA and Russia.

The history of the days leading up to the surrender are interesting - there was a failed "coup" to try and stop the Emperor from delivering the radio message and deliver their own to get the people to keep on fighting.

Could have been completely different if they had suceeded.

[KirinMan]

That was made during a diet session while he was working in an offical capacity. Thats a world apart from what happened here.

Sorry once again you are mistaken here, it was in an official capacity and not as a person making "private" remarks to friends or relatives, it was in a very public setting as a public official.

On Saturday, Kyuma spoke to an audience at Reitaku University in Kashiwa, Chiba Prefecture.

"I now have come to accept in my mind that in order to end the war it could not be helped that an atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki and that countless numbers of people suffered great tragedy," he said in his speech.

[frostyg02uk]

Originally Posted by JimmySeal

It's quite refreshing to see a Japanese politician show some semblance of b@11s about this matter, after all the lies and disingenuous crap thrown around about this subject. As I understand it, when Japan started losing the war, Japan turned to Russia for assistance and Russia responded by declaring war on them. Japan's military and government were pretty much off their collective rocker at that point. If the US hadn't ended the conflict quickly, the country quite possibly could have been split in half between USA and Russia.

And im sure thats better then being A bombed....twice. The reason the US used their bombs was so that they could beat russia in the race of who Japan would surrender to.

[Ewok85]

Originally Posted by Obeika

Sorry once again you are mistaken here, it was in an official capacity and not as a person making "private" remarks to friends or relatives, it was in a very public setting as a public official.

It was a personal view given during a talk at a university. That is still a whole different world to what you say during a diet session.

Originally Posted by frostyg02uk

And im sure thats better then being A bombed....twice. The reason the US used their bombs was so that they could beat russia in the race of who Japan would surrender to.

Based on what? They would have had higher casualty rates and very defintly lost huge amounts of land (Hokkaido at the very least) to Russia. Had the war not been ended on Japans terms the country would have been carved up and "controlled" by a variety of nations.

[JimmySeal]

And im sure thats better then being A bombed....twice. The reason the US used their bombs was so that they could beat russia in the race of who Japan would surrender to.

Really? The dropping of the bombs ultimately saved far more Japanese lives than it cost, so whether it was right or not is very much a matter of opinion, and not remotely so black and white as:

And im sure thats better then being A bombed....twice.

I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the United States returned all of Japan's land once the occupation was over, whereas Russia still claims possession of the little bit that they took.

Japanese politicians, and a lot of Japanese people, like to act as though Japan had no part in the conflict and that Americans just flew across the pacific to drop bombs on them for no reason. I am overjoyed to see a politician taking the other stance and it's a pity that he had to backpedal on his statement.

[frostyg02uk]

Theres no need to draw my attention to it im aware of todays situation. IMO when people join or are forced to into the army they know they are fighting, more so during that period and still today but the women and children didnt ever sign up to burning away in their own homes. Im sure that when america dropped the bombs they were not thinking "lets save lives people". I think the words of the pilot were more simular to "I am the destoryer of worlds"

[KirinMan]

Originally Posted by JimmySeal

Really? The dropping of the bombs ultimately saved far more Japanese lives than it cost, so whether it was right or not is very much a matter of opinion, and not remotely so black and white as:

We are also using today to judge the actions of yesterday. None of us can appreciate truly the thought process that went into the use of the atomic weapons at that time.

I'd bet anything that if Japan had the bomb at the time it would have used it, as would have Germany if they had developed it in time. However it is all moot as the fact remains that the US used them.

I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that the United States returned all of Japan's land once the occupation was over,

I'd like to draw your attention to Kadena Air Base, Camp Foster, Camp Kinser, MCAS Futenma, Yokosuka and Sasebo Naval Bases, Yokota Air Base, Iwakuni Air Base among a list of other locations that still have not been returned.

Japan is still literally paying a price for the "occupation" and "WWII".

It was a personal view given during a talk at a university. That is still a whole different world to what you say during a diet session.

True what one politician said in a diet sesson carries more weight, however he was invited to speak because he is Japan's first Defense Minister. He was there because he is a public official.

His opinions and thoughts private or otherwise will come under scrutiny when given in a public forum as he did.

It's because it was in public that he made these comments that this issue arose, it wasn't as if he was having a conversation over dinner with his family.

[caster51]

there are two view.
one is crime of USA as mass kiling
the other is End of War because of that.
I think both is correct and concurrent

there is no meaning that we discuss it more.
the problem is media and stpid Democratic party though Kyuma is also stpid.

The report bends a good interpretation of their convenience.
Their article are improper.

The Prime Minister Abe warned him
and Kyuma already apologized in public.
This problem is not a thing of the properties that should show expanses more than this

Ozawa of Democratic party insist " he must be dismissed and this is a point at issue of House of Councillors election in July"

it seems it is so ridiculous

[JimmySeal]

Originally Posted by frostyg02uk

I think the words of the pilot were more simular to "I am the destoryer of worlds"

That was Robert Oppenheimer, the director of the Manhattan Project, not the pilot of the plane. And he was not bragging.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Oppenheimer lamented the weapon's killing power after it was used to destroy the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Japan provoked America's soldiers into conflict to be killed and surely would have killed American civilians, given half the chance. It surely wasn't only soldiers they were killing and raping as they steamed through East Asia. In Nanking alone, the Japanese killed 100,000-300,000 non-combatants, and Japan was the first country to bomb civilian targets, in the 1920s when until that time it was considered a heinous war crime. And what about the Japanese commanders in Okinawa who ordered civilians to kill themselves?

Why should Japanese civilians be the only people free from harm, when nobody else was safe? Why are the atomic bombings an atrocious murder of Japanese people when just as many civilians were killed in the bombing of Tokyo?

[frostyg02uk]

The director? sokka. His meaning doesnt matter but the point stays that the bombing wasnt to save lives.

No doubt if Japan had of made the A bomb they would of used it, no doubt given the chance they might of killed civilians but its not my intention to have a "my dad has more hair then your dad" arguement. Im not sure if its your intention but are you suggesting that Hiroshima was fair revenge? Its simular to asking why should 9/11 not happen when other people are dying violently throughout the world? Isnt the answer of "those innocent people were not enolved" enough? Does this reply mean that 2 wrongs make a right?

To dull it down its like a gang member commiting a crime against your family and you going into their neighbourhood and petrol bombing a random home, not caring who you hurt or kill doing so. If that justice? or rightous?

Lets not forget that a bomb is a bomb. But an A-Bomb is one that poisins the land for years affects the next generations who in this age just crave for peace. Are they paying the price of revenge for Japanese soldiers raping in other countries?
If we go witht his trend what revenge do you suggest against american soldiers who rape women today in a time of so called peace?

[JimmySeal]

The difference is that we were engaged in a war with them (which includes the entire country, including cities, as the government started the war and the cities are under their jurisdiction) and we attacked and killed some of their people, just as they would have done to us if we hadn't fought them all the way back to their side of the ocean and stopped them from attacking us further. It was all part of the same conflict. It wasn't revenge, and we didn't drop any bombs to punish them. If the Japanese had massacred Nanking, then just gone home and sat on their bums, no, that wouldn't justify dropping a bomb on them, but that's not what happened. We dropped those bombs to end the ongoing war.

No, the bomb wasn't dropped primarily to save Japanese lives, but I'm sure that the idea wasn't completely overlooked either. The fact remains that it did save lives on both sides and few Japanese are willing to admit that. Open a Japansese social studies book and you will see it jump from Hitler killing Jews to Americans killing Japanese, with nothing in between, as though these bombs just came out of nowhere. So this politician saying something somewhere in the realm of reality is a great thing, in my opinion.

[frostyg02uk]

On going? when the bombs were dropped Japan was losing resources and retreating back to Japan, its also said that they were about to surrender to russia. Im sure that the fact Russia got to dead hilter first and were about to take Japan also had nothing to do with it after all we cant have it look like Russia won the war, even if they did lose 11 million in the process.
Just a thought...at pearl habour after Japan attacked the navy do you think that they couldnt of went on the mainland america to continue bombing? Theres no proof that dropping 2 A-bombs saved lifes. They say that Japan taking over korea actually helped them develope but of course saying that is taboo in korea and just because it helped them doesnt make it right.

I still cant agree with the idea of bombing innocents because Japan started it. For many of your points you can re-read my above post.

[caster51]

but that's not what happened. We dropped those bombs to end the ongoing war.

in order to end of WAR, this excuse is very convenient.
why did not USA use it in korean WAR

[KirinMan]

It wasn't revenge, and we didn't drop any bombs to punish them. If the Japanese had massacred Nanking, then just gone home and sat on their bums, no, that wouldn't justify dropping a bomb on them, but that's not what happened. We dropped those bombs to end the ongoing war.

I agree with you here.

No, the bomb wasn't dropped primarily to save Japanese lives, but I'm sure that the idea wasn't completely overlooked either. The fact remains that it did save lives on both sides and few Japanese are willing to admit that.

I wonder if the thought of saving Japanese lives even came into the equation, but I agree here as well that in the long run it ended up saving lives on both sides.

However, in a quote taken from the link in the OP he wrote;

I now have come to accept in my mind that in order to end the war it could not be helped that an atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki and that countless numbers of people suffered great tragedy," he said in his speech.

There certainly was an option, particularly after the Battle of Okinawa, Japan could have just as easily sued for peace. America was at it's doorstep getting prepared for the final assault on the mainland. Japan had nowhere and noone to turn to for assistance.

The US was expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000,000 casualties in it's preparation for the invasion of the mainland. From that point of view alone it is hard to dispute their use of the "new" weapon at that time.

The Japanese government at the time knew the end was coming but didn't want to face that reality. That is until the reality was dropped on them in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Looking back it from the knowledge we have today, that may not have been the best choice. Once again hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by caster51

in order to end of WAR, this excuse ia very convenient.
why did not USA use it in korean WAR

It's not a convenient excuse it is a fact, plus Korea is a different story altogether, it wasnt a world war for one thing and another thing it wasn't even a declared war either.

[KirinMan]

Update here......

Defense chief Kyuma steps down over gaffe
Japan's defense minister, Fumio Kyuma, resigned today for triggering outrage with his statements that appeared to justify the 1945 atomic bombing of Nagasaki.(July.3) [more]

Defense chief Kyuma steps down over gaffe

[JimmySeal]

Originally Posted by Obeika

There certainly was an option, particularly after the Battle of Okinawa, Japan could have just as easily sued for peace. America was at it's doorstep getting prepared for the final assault on the mainland. Japan had nowhere and noone to turn to for assistance.

Yeah, you make a good point. Perhaps the bombs were the only sensible option available to the Americans, and the only way the war was going to end sensibly, because the Japanese government wasn't acting sensibly. They were busy telling their people to arm themselves with sticks and poles to fight off the invading soldiers.

Interesting hole in Kyuma's statement.

[frostyg02uk]

Ahh so in essance..its like the Japanese leaders bombed their own people right?