could the universe began with complete zero.

[cohen avshalom]

could the universe began with complete zero-??
could area change state like any other matterial done??
what is your opinion-irealy like to know?
and of course what is your favorite theory for the begining of the universe??
icarus

[Mars Man]

That...is a really hard one. I have no idea...but I kind of get hung on the 'nothing for nothing' idea. As it stands, we seem to have a firm conclusion that there is nothing in the universe that we can get for nothing...everything has a cost...which would tend to imply that likewise, that there is not a singe thing which arises from, or comes from nothing. Hence, nothing comes from nothing.

The universe it self? or the possible several universes? Who really knows...

ps--I moved this here because this is the right place for it, since it didn't have anything to do with Japan. Thanks for your understanding. MM

[Derfel]

Favorite theory? I suppose it would be the Big Bang. It seems to most realistic.

[cohen avshalom]

ok-nice to hear from till now-and hope also other will post there opinion.
and even say why.

icarus

[Annubis]

What is ZERO? Is it infinity and nothing together? Isn't that what space is? Do you mean VOID?

Isn't void something? Hahaha... Good question. What about time? Isn't time something... what about existence?

If you think of the space-time matrix of the universe and how mass and time affect every element in the universe, it is impossible to say that nothing ever existed. On the other hand, if you think of the space beyond matter, then time stands still because there are no particles being effected, since there are no particles. HAHAHA

It is known that all existence has a tendency toward entropy. Could this be the final state? Could this have been the original state... From chaos to order and the end state from order to chaos? What of Stephen Hawking and his Black hole theory?

Am I going on a tangent?

[nanook]

Cause and effect, IMHO. Big bang was caused by something. If Big Bang was the birth of our universe, then the cause must have been outside (maybe something like a cell division?). We might have to wait, until the scientists find and give us a method to see outside our universe. Then, maybe, we can find out more. Until then: guesswork, IMHO.

[Annubis]

What of the multiple universe theory and that one particle can exist in two places at once. Like the nutrino experiments in the 90s. But only when it was observed, did the nutrino exist in another place. What if nothing exists all the time and all that is exists outside of nothing at the same rate as nothing. What if we are nothing but a particle in time? What if time was the real particle and all else is nothing?

[cohen avshalom]

what will be the temperature outside the universe?(if you could get there).
but please dont give me no-"there are not having outside the universe"-let say for this conversation there are such point-now give me the guess -what will be the temperature there(you can get down from the max (min-temperature-since you are not at the universe))

till now i have find people that like to think-so keep stay with me.

cohen avshalom charly
israel /haifa
www.icarus5.com

[Annubis]

I assume our universe is active. If it is active, than a substantial amount of energy is created. If you could imagine the universe as a sort of star emitting radiation-like particles or energy, than the minimum temperature would probablby be... nothing... HAHAHA!!! hmmm... that is since the outside of the universe would not be effected by such energy, for it is like an iscolation chamber separating all other universes.... hmmm... but if our universe could effect other universes, such is the theory of multiple universes, then the temperature can range as high and as low as whichever tempereture is emitted by the reciprocal universe. NO? Of course who knows... I'm just having fun!!

[cohen avshalom]

Annubis:
could be-that outside of the universe -it will be down the max(min temperature)???

cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa
www.icarus5.com

[Annubis]

I'm sorry Cohen, but I really don't understand your question. Perhaps someone else can answer.

[cohen avshalom]

what will be the temperature-outside the universe?
could see get down from the max---min?


cohen avshalom charly
israel /haifa

[Mars Man]

If we really wanted to ponder over such things, admittedly we're gonna have to have some basic framework around which to work. With the questions presented, really, we have none.

It is not known, nor is it knowable at the moment that there is any 'outside' the universe. Even in the hypothesis of multiply universes, as far as I know, we don't yet have any 'outside' universe because of the continuum of the 'stream' of superpositions.

However, simply and only for the fun of mental exercise. . . I say there is no temperature outside the universe.

[Chi65]

Moebius, padam, padam...

[Mars Man]

Howdy there Chi65 chan... You might have to give an English rendering of that too. I'm not familiar with that one ! Thanks ! MM

[cohen avshalom]

for all the people since i have probleam with my computer- i have virus on my computer-therefore- i will reback to this topic later-after i will fix that probleam-if you like what i was writting -you can read more at icarus5-and i will reback later.
sorry that i should dial now with other thinks.
cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa

[Tsuyoiko]

Whether there is anything outside the universe depends on what you mean by 'universe'. If you mean the space-time continuum we're currently residing in, I'm quite sure there's something outside of that, in time and space. If by 'universe' you mean 'everything that exists', then clearly there's nothing outside of that: anything outside of it would exist and therefore by definition be inside it! The same goes for whether the universe came out of nothing, which is what I think you're asking in the OP. Our current universe came out of whatever was there before. The universe in the sense of everything that exists have always been and always will be. There was no 'before'. I think that's a hard concept to grasp because of the limitations in our thinking, not because it's not possible. The proof: the first law of thermodynamics.

[Annubis]

What is absolute zero?
According to Icarus5, absolute zero is negative 173.16 degrees Celsius. This is zero Kalvin. Area is empty space with no matter. The area outside the universe is equivalent to a gas state in temperature at below absolute zero.

Since this is already stated on Icarus5, I suppose that the question is how much below absolute zero is the outside of the universe. In other words in which condition can nothing exist. If the outside of the universe can be compared to a gas, than in which state will a gas no longer exist?

Well... a gas can either become a solid or a liquid.

If the universe is expanding, that would assume that space and infinity are ironically finite. If such is the case, than the outside of the universe is decreasing as the universe increases and emits heat. solid?

A new question. What grows smaller when you heat it? Usually things expand... In the case of "outside the universe", it seems to be the opposite. It has antimatter-like qualities.

In my opinion, there are planets in the shape of dolphins, so anything is possible!!

[karlyboo]

It's a very interesting topic in general. The point immediately before the big-bang becomes even more interesting when one considers that factors like cause-and-effect are a function of time, and time theoretically only existed after the point at which the universe came into being. Therefore before that there is no need of a 'first cause' for the big bang since the normal rules of cause-and-effect did not exist.
For there to be anything outside of the Universe (including temperature) is an impossibility as far as I can reason (which is not very far, I'll admit) as temperature relies on the energy within matter which in turn relies upon a set of dimensions to exist in. It seems entirely possible there may be other universes, but as for some interconnecting tissue between them (i.e. outside of any Universe), its nature would be totally alien since it would exist outside of space and time (leastways, I have a hard time imagining a substance with no dimensions and no time).
Unless all Universes exist within a larger 'Omniverse' that obeys a different set of physical laws yet provides enough for the Universes within to co-exist and for material to exist outside in a different state to that material existing within universes.
I love Astrophysics, it's something of a hobbyhorse of mine

[Sono Ike]

o . o )?
Fav theory?? well... the big bang? Althought it has some strage points > _ > ) *she doesn't know how to say them in english*
Karlyboo was saying "and time theoretically only existed after the point at which the universe came into being." hell, the first time I read that (for a school homework I suppose) I was like... " o.o?... so... the time doesn't exist since ever? wow!!"

Originally Posted by Annubis

In my opinion, there are planets in the shape of dolphins, so anything is possible!!

xDDDD LOL!!!!!! I want to live in one dolphin-shape planet!!!!

[Dimitree]

Originally Posted by cohen avshalom

could the universe began with complete zero-??
could area change state like any other matterial done??
what is your opinion-irealy like to know?
and of course what is your favorite theory for the begining of the universe??
icarus

I can't stop myself from ridiculing sciance

We say that there are phisical laws and so on yet sciantists say that the universe started with a Big Bang

Just try creating anything with a Big Bang

Another populer statment is that if you put 19137979831978139889274 parts of watches in one bag and shake them long enough sooner or later there will be a watch formed from them

Ofc no one considers that if you realy do that all these parts will smash to eachother and they will be worth for nothing.

I would sujest to you to restrain yourself far away from any sciantifical explination about anything.
As long as they have the "asuming" factor in their "theorys" i personaly don't belive a nicle of it.

And i'm still waiting sciance to tell me what gave the positive particle of the atom positive charge and the negative negative

[Derfel]

As many smilies, as little content.

Random statements.

[karlyboo]

Originally Posted by Dimitree

I can't stop myself from ridiculing sciance
We say that there are phisical laws and so on yet sciantists say that the universe started with a Big Bang
Just try creating anything with a Big Bang
Another populer statment is that if you put 19137979831978139889274 parts of watches in one bag and shake them long enough sooner or later there will be a watch formed from them
Ofc no one considers that if you realy do that all these parts will smash to eachother and they will be worth for nothing.
I would sujest to you to restrain yourself far away from any sciantifical explination about anything.
As long as they have the "asuming" factor in their "theorys" i personaly don't belive a nicle of it.
And i'm still waiting sciance to tell me what gave the positive particle of the atom positive charge and the negative negative

Would I be jumping the gun or might the belief that 'an old man with a beard clicked his fingers and made everything' be the obvious alternative theory slowly making its way towards this thread?

Yes of course all Scientists are silly silly people. Naturally none of them over the last century have been bright enough to see this all so simply the way you do. Well done. You must be smarter than all of them. We should completely abandon all our scientific achievements (including electricity, medicine and indoor plumbing) because they're obviously all founded on lies and stupidity and would never, ever work.

{Applauds slowly}

[Mikawa Ossan]

Dimitree, please do not eschew science completely because it makes some conclusions that you disagree with. Without science, there would be no Jref or internet to house it! Science may not be correct all the time, but that doesn't mean it should be ridiculed.

[Dimitree]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

Dimitree, please do not eschew science completely because it makes some conclusions that you disagree with. Without science, there would be no Jref or internet to house it! Science may not be correct all the time, but that doesn't mean it should be ridiculed.

Hmmm
Have you ever considered that Inventions don't come because of sciance ?
A vewy quick example is Mr. Albert Einstein ... do you know what grades he had in school ? In particular in the field where he made his discovery ?
Thus you don't need sciance to invent.

O well i guess i will go in read only mode from now on
I don't feel welcome in this section.