Dutch parliament demands Japanese compensation for "comfort women"

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Dutch parliament demands Japanese compensation for "comfort women"



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7119543.htm
2007-11-21 11:07:12


I couldn't believe my eyes when I received this news from a friend in Canada.
For the first time in 62 years I am proud of a Dutch government!

I like to know what you think of this news!

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Funny you should find this on a Chinese website ! I googled it and all the results were from other Chinese websites... Suspicious...

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

It was also on the website of the Tweede Kamer ( House of Lower Parliament):


Motie-Van Baalen inzake erkenning lot troostmeisjes unaniem door Kamer aanvaard

De Kamer heeft vanmiddag, dinsdag 20 november 2007, met algemene stemmen de Motie-Van Baalen aanvaard. Deze motie eist van Japan dat dit land het lot van de troostmeisjes, die tijdens de Japanse bezetting van, ondermeer, toenmalig Nederlandsch-Indië, tot prostitutie werden gedwongen, volmondig erkent.

De Kamer wil dat de Japanse regering de troostmeisjes excuses en een directe vorm van compensatie voor het aangedane leed aanbiedt. De Japanse regering dient er voorts voor te zorgen dat de Japanse oorlogsmisdaden, waaronder het lot van de troostmeisjes, op objectieve wijze in de Japanse schoolboeken worden vermeld.

De Nederlandse regering heeft bij monde van minister Verhagen van Buitenlandse Zaken, de motie-Van Baalen omarmd. Zij zal er bij de Japanse regering met klem op aandringen aan de in de motie gestelde voorwaarden te voldoen.

Informatie uit de Tweede Kamer gecombineerd met achtergronddossiers en het laatste politieke nieuws.
Informatie ter oriëntatie op een bezoek, uitleg over hoe wetten tot stand komen en een rondgang door de geschiedenis van de Staten-Generaal.
================================================== =============

The Chinese in Brussels translated it all very well.

[pipokun]

The San Francisco treaty and bilateral treaties settled all disputes.

The parliament comes to know it will boomerang them, for it was just four years ago when the Dutch foreign minister apologised the colonial rule.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello Pipokun,

Each time you telling me that the Dutch had a colonial rule. Of course you are right!
So did Japan, North and South Korea and Taiwan.

The Dutch foreign minister Ben Bot aplogised in 2005 and in 2008 the president of Indonesia will visit Holland in order to rebuild a friendship between the two countries.
This has nothing to do with Japan.

The San Francisco Treaty is a farce! America was very scared that Japan would turn into a Communistic country. America made Japan a so called democratic country.

[pipokun]

Did the US demand the compensation like your government?

Japan did compensate for what we did to your people, though I don't know how your government spend it. If they would have spent it for rebuilding the nation and kept it secret to the public for many years like the South Korean govenment, I understand what you feel.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun, You ask me if the US demands a compensation from Japan just like the Netherlands did yesterday?

Why should they, the Japanese governments have protected America against the Communism. The San Francisco Treaty was there to protect Japan economical.
And maybe also because Japan suffered horribly from the two A bombs. Fact is that the Kempeitai didn't reach the American ground.

Now the Dutch government!! Just before my husband and I immigrated to South Africa in 1956, I received almost 400 guilders from Japan. I was poor, so for me this was a fontune in those days. That was not even € 200 per person. A compensation for all the horrible sufferings and illnes I had to go through during the Japanese occupation? A compensation for killing my father by the Kempeitai?

Maybe Japanese money has been used by the first governments after the war to rebuild Holland. That is very possible!
But how much did Japan plan to give us, me? Maybe € 400 each?

Shame on the San Francisco Treaty, because Japan was not poor at all after WWII.

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Originally Posted by pipokun

Did the US demand the compensation like your government?
Japan did compensate for what we did to your people, though I don't know how your government spend it.

I heard a story of an Italian guy who lended some books to a Dutch friend who worked in Indonesia at the time of the war. The books were burnt by the Japanese soldiers. Who will pay for that, eh ?

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

An answer is simple.
The Dutch government pays money of his loss.
Japan already hands those money to the Dutch government.
He proves that his book was baked,
Afterwards,
He receives money of damage from the Dutch government.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hiroyuki N,

Japanese soldiers burned some books during WWII in Indonesia.
The books were not from a Dutchman but actualy from an Italian ( in those days a friend from Japan).

In 1956/57 Japan paid some "money of damage" as you call it. From that money the Dutch government must pay the Italian, because Japanese soldiers burnt his books??

Very funny!

[pipokun]

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/netherlands-00.html
Probably I asked you the similar question, but do you still think Japan did nothing to the victims in your country?
If Dutch lawmakers also think the treaties are farce like you said, why don't you abolish it?

And if possible, please tell me if all lawmakers, 150, voted the resolution? (This question is just out of curiosity, for the US case was just 10 members mean "unanimous". It is true in a way, but...)

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Pipokun,

Of course, Japan paid something for the Dutch war victims from the former D.E.I. As I wrote before, that was about € 200 for each of us. You are also right about the Dutch "comfort women", that was offered by a Japanese fund, not by the Japanese governments. Only a few women accepted that money.

Ah, you ask me why I don't abolish the San Francisco Treaty. That Treaty was not set up in Holland but in America. How on earth can I or any other one from the D.E.I. change that Treaty? And besides that, I have no authority at all. I am just an old lady who once long ago grew up in Indonesia, one of the countries that was occupied by Japan during WWII.
No one would even bother to answer me!!

There are two type of Dutch people: 1: The Dutch from Holland
2: The Dutch who lived in the D.E.I before WWII

The Dutch from the former D.E.I. were not welcome in Holland afer the war. We were called the exploiters from the Indonesians. Strange, when you think that most of our fathers worked for Dutch firms in Holland and that their income tax went to Holland.
The Dutch government in exile in London ( Holland was occupied by Germany) did declare war on Japan 8 December 1941.
The British women and children could be send to England, via South Africa.
The Dutch women and children had to stay where they were, Holland was occupied by the Germans.

The Dutch in Holland had suffered under the German occupation, especially the Dutch Jews of course.
When the Dutch refugees from Indonesia came to Holland ( the country from one of our parents , or both of our parents) they realized that they were not one bit welcome.
We all kept very quiet, those who tried to tell about "our" war in the Far East were laughed at. The Germans were cruel during WWII, not the Japanese.
Nobody cared about signing the S.A.Treaty. We, the Dutch from Indonesia, were all rich enough so we were told.

Japan doen't like us either, we must stop crying about that occupation of Indonesia, it was a Dutch colony. It wasn't as bad as we are saying. And the bad things we saw were just hallucinations and overdone stories.

I think that the first Japanese government after the war,( most certainly Mr.Yoshida) did want to compensate the Dutch people from Indonesia more than € 200. But that was not allowed.

I also learned very young that there are far more kind and good Japanese in this world than war criminals. But that "we" from the former D.E.I. have been badly treated by the Dutch from Holland and the Japanese government in cooperation with America ( S.F.Treaty) after that horrible war, that is a fact.

What do I expect from Japan?

I would be very happy when Japan will accept its not so nice WWII history. By trying to hide dark history, it always gets worse.
Dark histories happen ever since our world exists. Look at our world of today.

[tokapi]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen

Dutch parliament demands Japanese compensation for "comfort women".

For the first time in 62 years I am proud of a Dutch government!

Early last month, the Dutch Lower House passed a unanimous resolution to seek from the Japanese government an official apology to and restitution for the comfort women.

Now the Dutch women probably have the most clear-cut case against the Japanese government on the comfort women issue .

http://son-of-gadfly-on-the-wall.blo...ory-dutch.html

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen

Of course, Japan paid something for the Dutch war victims from the former D.E.I. As I wrote before, that was about € 200 for each of us.

Damn, you can't even buy a plane ticket to Japan with that, even from Korea !

[Sihanssi]

I’ve always thought that the claims made on Japan because of the occupation of Dutch East Indies a bit peculiar, to say the least. Lambert Giebels, a Dutch historian, also reached the conclusion that these claims were unjustified. First of all, the war was declared by the Dutch authorities of D.E.I. It follows from there that the subsequent war, Dutch surrender and even the internment of citizens were acts in accordance with the law of war. After the war the Japanese paid 10 million dollars US to the Dutch government in compensation.
Secondly, D.E.I., present day Indonesia, was a Dutch colony and involuntarily so. Although we have been told stories about the blessings Dutch rule has brought to the natives of the “Emerald Belt” as the Indonesian islands were poetically called, the facts of their conquest and the price the natives paid for Dutch rule are talked about in very general terms, if at all during the history lessons I’ve received in school.
Dutch rule was responsible for a structural undernourishment among Javanese farmers that lasted for decades on the isle Java due to the so-called ‘cultures policy’. The latter compelled the Javanese farmers to grow indigo, tea and sugar for the sake of the Dutch economy instead of rice and so causing a long lasting situation of under nourishment among the population. We can only guess what the consequences must have been for the Javanese.
The Dutch territorial claims to Bali and Sumatra caused the extermination of the Balinese royal families and a war in Aceh that cost many, many lives, among them hundreds of thousands of forced (native) laborers working for the Dutch army. That war shows many similarities with the Vietnam and the present-day Irak wars and lasted from the end of the 19th century until the Japanese invasion.
The laborers on the tobacco plantations of Sumatra were virtual slaves and had to live and work under inhuman conditions subject to the whims of whomever was put over them. A report on treatment of the laborers has been buried very deeply in the national archives and until today is very hard to get permission to read it.
The mortality rate of the forced (Indonesian) laborers was on the average higher than that of the forced laborers under the Japanese military.
Of course unsavory things happened under Japanese military rule: the kempei, for instance, were pretty heavy-handed with the people that drew their attention and the internment of civilians was badly organized resulting in much suffering; and of course there were the occasional rape and summary executions. As for certain internment camps in Java criminal intent could be proven. That having said, there is a distinct tendency among certain groups to exaggerate and they even make up stories about the Japanese occupation of D.E.I.
As for atonement and apologies, let it be noted that, compared to other places, a remarkable high percentage of Japanese were executed after the war by the Dutch. This is more indicative for the vindictiveness of the Dutch than justice.
It could hardly be denied that IMTFE (Tokyo tribunal) has all the characteristics of a kangaroo court. The case of general Yamashita is an example of that.
And the Japanese have apologized over and over again. So how many apologies do we need?
It is true that the Japanese armed forces were responsible for many atrocities, notably in China and Korea, but on balance it is fair to say that those were no different than the atrocities for which all major imperialistic and colonial powers, including the Netherlands, are responsible. And I think it is also fair to say the Japanese have already paid a heavy price for their misdeeds: Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
I do think, however, that the Japanese government should take responsibility for and compensate the still living ‘comfort women’. But then again the Dutch government is still to pay and/or help the Eurasians who have fought and suffered for them and who where abandoned in abysmal circumstances when the Dutch lost their colony.

[hanachan]

Sihanssi, thank you very much.
I think that your opinion is very objective and really fair.
Which opinion is the majority in your country, yours or Elizabeth van Kampen's?

[Sihanssi]

Well Hanachan, that’s a bit difficult to say. First of all, many people don’t know much about what happened in the Dutch East Indies, neither are they very interested. However, there are very active groups of people, who were in the D.E.I. during the Japanese occupation or who are their (grand)children, who more or less hijack public opinion. If a politician has the courage to accept the historical facts and says so in public he’ll face a lot of flack from this group.

The peculiar thing is that many people who have witnessed and lived through these events were quite objective in their views of their former captors. My father among them. And he has seen the worse as a POW working at the railroad in Thailand.

[Astroboy]

This news interested me very much...... As far as I know, Dutch Gov Never made compensation to Indonesia for their 300-years colonization. They only apologized.
So I will push my Indonesian friends to claim "Compensation" against Dutch Gov. If Indonesian succeed, Vietnam will claim against France, and India will do the same to UK, and Aboligine will do the same against Australia.....
Of course, Japan needs to claim against USA for their dropping nukes.
Let's enjoy Compensation War!

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Good luck Astroboy!

The Dutch didn't even compensate the Dutch people who were living in the former Dutch East Indies while working for Dutch firms. And that while the Dutch government in exile in England declared war on Japan. They left us in the cold.
Only never forget that only Japan had the KEMPEITAI and that was quite a cruel troop, you know.

I sugest that we all should help poor children to school so that they get a good education and later on good jobs. I am helping 12 Indonesian children to school.
7 in Malang, East Java, 3 from the island Sumba and 2 in Kalimantan.
Helping the future is the best that we can do.

[Astroboy]

What a convenient history interpretation... You are always right but we are always wrong.

Then Ask Indonesian! (not living in Holland but living in Indonesia).

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen

Good luck Astroboy!
The Dutch didn't even compensate the Dutch people who were living in the former Dutch East Indies while working for Dutch firms. And that while the Dutch government in exile in England declared war on Japan. They left us in the cold.
Only never forget that only Japan had the KEMPEITAI and that was quite a cruel troop, you know.
I sugest that we all should help poor children to school so that they get a good education and later on good jobs. I am helping 12 Indonesian children to school.
7 in Malang, East Java, 3 from the island Sumba and 2 in Kalimantan.
Helping the future is the best that we can do.

Yes, I agree. Japan has been the largest donator of economic assistance for Indonesia. Indonesian economy is doing much better, and more kids are being able to go to school.

[Astroboy]

"The San Francisco Treaty is a farce! America was very scared that Japan would turn into a Communistic country." ---- Probably right, and then all of us can modify any treaties when we don't like it.

"America made Japan a so called democratic country." --- Japan introduced a limited but universal suffrage in early 1900s. Today USA is a so-called democratic country but many believe that it is not and they are causing wars/flictions. Germany was the most democratic country after WWI, but took over by ultra-nationalist. Holland was also one of the old democratic countries but their definition of democracy was limited to Europe.

Interesting isn't it?

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

I sugest that we all should help poor children to school so that they get a good education and later on good jobs. I am helping 12 Indonesian children to school.
7 in Malang, East Java, 3 from the island Sumba and 2 in Kalimantan.
Helping the future is the best that we can do.

It is very splendid.

Please help her.
"Dutch diplomat in Hong Kong returns South Korean girl adopted 7 years ago."
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...l-Returned.php

http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20071210000062

[caster51]

what a selfish ..Is she a dog?

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hiroyuki N,

I am shocked when I read stories like this. Such people should never have adopted that poor girl! In my eyes they have destroyed the girl's life.

I have a adopted son and a dauhter from India, who are now 35 and 30 years young.
I can asure you that I love them with all my haert. Both were also accepted from the beginning by my whole family. My mother also considered both from the moment they arrived in Holland as her grandchildren. That is how it should be.
Both my children love me too.