Sexuality

[Skullcrushergurl]

What is your sexuality and what are your views on gay/bi relationships?
There is starting to be a sort of tolerance in America but other countries like Japan and Europe it isn't so common....is it?
My best friend is gay and I have no real problem with it but I worry about him sometimes.

[Tsuyoiko]

Originally Posted by Skullcrushergurl

There is starting to be a sort of tolerance in America but other countries like Japan and Europe it isn't so common....is it?
[/CENTER]

Interesting you should say that. My perception is the opposite. Gay marriage is legal here in the UK now. Not so in the US right?

[Skullcrushergurl]

No..I don't think so but people are more accepting. It just isn't legal yet.

[made of stone]

Not having been to the States, but having a very many good friends from those parts, and a long-held interest in American sociology, I feel able to offer my opinion that our tiny British Isles are far more tolerant of alternative sexual choices across the whole land mass than the USA is...

I'm straight by the way (and still single!! Hello to all the likewise-single gals of Jref, heehee ), but have always had some good friends who aren't. I care more about spirit and values than sexuality.

[Goldiegirl]

I can't agree MOS, sorry, but the USA is much larger country so it really depends on where you live. San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Seattle, basically the bigger more metropolitan areas are tolerant of homosexual people and really anybody. I lived in Milwaukee and we have a yearly "Gay Pride" parade. It was and is a big success. The East Side where I lived was a very diverse community. Some of favorite TV shows have been with homosexual people, for instance "Will & Grace". I know that certain shows in the UK are the same too...

[made of stone]

Originally Posted by Goldiegirl

I can't agree MOS, sorry, but the USA is much larger country so it really depends on where you live. San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Seattle, basically the bigger more metropolitan areas are tolerant of homosexual people and really anybody. I lived in Milwaukee and we have a yearly "Gay Pride" parade. It was and is a big success. The East Side where I lived was a very diverse community. Some of favorite TV shows have been with homosexual people, for instance "Will & Grace". I know that certain shows in the UK are the same too...

Sorry I didn't express myself clearly - that was actually exactly what I meant!!

Of course, the US has some very understanding cities across its great landmass, but it also has very (and in some cases extremely!!) intolerant areas. The UK is a minuscule place in comparison, and has its own 'pockets' of discrimination, but by and large that small land mass makes for less dramatic variations from region to region, and across the country as a whole.

mos

[Sarapva]

I think there's only one state (Massachusetts?) in the U.S. so far that has legalized gay marriage. It's hard to say, but I can understand both Goldiegirl's and made of stone's arguments. The British do seem to be more liberal, on the whole, than Americans, but then there are places like San Francisco and Milwaukee where differences are accepted. I think there is still a strictness in religion that permeates a lot of the U.S., and this is probably where the intolerance of gays comes from.

[Mars Man]

Originally Posted by Sarapva

I think there is still a strictness in religion that permeates a lot of the U.S., and this is probably where the intolerance of gays comes from.

That, Sarapva san, is THE key point. Within a social group, the elements of culture and religious belief-system that have entangled together to make the fabric of that same social group, will extend to what are called moral attitudes.

The USofA moral compass, among other attitudes as well, has played a heavy hand in not accepting homosexuality. I mean in wasn't until around 1975 that it was changed from being classed as 'mental health' problem, rather than a state of biological sexual disposition, in the US psychiatric handbook.

There is no more 'wrong' in homosexuality than there is 'wrong' in hetrosexuality, bi-sexuality, or asexuality. The belief that sexual orientations other than hetrosexuality are wrong, is a dinosaur from ages of ignorance.

[MadamePapillon]

Originally Posted by Skullcrushergurl

What is your sexuality and what are your views on gay/bi relationships?
There is starting to be a sort of tolerance in America but other countries like Japan and Europe it isn't so common....is it?
My best friend is gay and I have no real problem with it but I worry about him sometimes.

America has always been slow on the uptake when it comes to lifestyles and people that differ from the norm (the christian norm), but I'm confident they will come around. They always do. They give in ever so grudgingly and often with a big ugly battle but once the dust settles they look back and realize how stupid it all was and start going on about tolerance and acceptance.

Read American history, the rules for this kind of thing are practically written in stone

As for sexuality...I'll just say this. If Angelina Jolie came up to me right now and asked me to have sex with her...I totally would.

[Mars Man]

Which reminds me...I forgot to answer the question...although I think my bald head fairly easily gives it away. Yes, I have a storehouse of testosterone, and it has burdened me a rather strong hetrosexual drive.

Now in my youth (last of highschool, and early college) my hereditary being and looks--along with my slightly long, curly red hair--brought on a number of advances from those who I didn't and still don't mind being around (and of course hold nothing against), but who I just could not imagine myself taking part in any even sensual touching with.

And, I have once been turned down by a rather nice female who was more into relationhips of that kind with other girls--but we had some good times together beyond that, I will admit...really a good friendship like thing (but she was attractive) So...that's where I am now....

[Dutch Baka]

Interesting thread. Let me come up with my story... when I have some more time!

I'm looking forward reading some posts on this thread! Thanks OP.

[Revenant]

Originally Posted by Mars Man

There is no more 'wrong' in homosexuality than there is 'wrong' in hetrosexuality, bi-sexuality, or asexuality. The belief that sexual orientations other than hetrosexuality are wrong, is a dinosaur from ages of ignorance.

hahaha... quite agree.

[Kinsao]

I think that England seems pretty tolerant in general of non-heterosexuality, although of course not entirely 'perfect' in this respect. I would say that the impression I get is that Europe (again while not being 'perfect') is fairly accepting and becoming more so... with some cultural exceptions that I don't know of (since I haven't visited all countries in Europe, even less to enough depth to get an accurate impression of people's attitudes in the main!).

I did have the impression there are more 'pockets of fanatical Christians' in America (no offense meant by the expression!) than are found in Europe... although there are strong Christian backgrounds to a lot of 'religion' in Europe, I have found it to be (with exceptions) more easy-going and less 'militant' than the American variety - although not sure if this is more representative of Latin/Southern European countries than the more 'hardline' northern/eastern countries (such as Poland).

Also, thinking that something is 'wrong' is slightly different from failing to practice tolerance towards those that practice it (the old 'hate the sin not the sinner' argument).

Personally I know quite a number of gay people (perhaps more than average since my interests include theatre and fetish events), some of whom are 'out' and some are not.

[bakaKanadajin]

I think there are two kinds of gay people, those by birth and those by choice. Whatever you're into, as long as you don't try to push it on me, I'm fine with it. Toronto has a large gay population, nearly as large as San Francisco's, definitely top 3 in North America. Most gays are cool, but there are a few who don't know how to keep their words and actions in check and if I did the same things to a woman I'd be charged with sexual assault and harrassment, so the equality thing is in some cases warranted, no one should be discriminated against, but in some cases I think they get away with too much.

Overall I don't really care what people do in their bedrooms.

I think the whole gay marriage thing is a small time crisis compared to some of the more global and survival-related issues we should be dealing with. I was angered to see it garner so much media attention when more important things are occurring world wide. Do we really care at the moment if gays marry? How about making sure we don't nuke each other or decimate or natural resources first.

[Clawn]

For the longest time I was anti-gay/lesbian/bi/transexual, because I was sticking to what certain elders had told me. However, in one year (I believe it was 2004) two of my close friends "came out" and my perception of homosexuality was turned on its head. You see, I live in a typical southern, rural, country town; very conservative. Until that point, I had never met or talked with someone who was homosexual. Well, not knowingly, anyway. I had been blinded by some of my town's homophobia and a completely ridiculous belief that homosexuality was linked to sexual perversion.

However, after a few long chats with some very good friends, I came to the view that I have now: We should not judge someone by anything other than the content of their character. (thanks Mr. King Jr.)

So, I believe that even though parts of my country and the world are still intolerant or homosexuals, that old belief is slowly eroding away. I hope that one day the hate crimes and discrimination associated with this matter will all be an unpleasant memory.

[RegDunlap]

Whatever people do in the privacy of their own homes is no concern of mine. Straight, bisexual, trisexual, homosexual, it isn't my business.

I'm from Toronto too, and I used to work in a big hotel downtown. A goodly portion of my coworkers were homosexual, and it didnt really matter. We probably joked around about it more than we should have, but that was no big deal.

In dealing with issues like marriage, I am a little more conservative. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why the privilege of marriage needs to be extended to include same sex couples. Issues of property and the like can be dealt with through civil unions and private contracts between the concerned parties.

[Derfel]

My opinion is a little more conservative, generally I don't care about homosexual people doing whatever they wish, behind curtains like everyone else, but I find parades and such very, very disgusting, be they gay, bi or simply hetero parades to promote sexuality. Gay pride? Why the hell? If someone is homosexual he is homosexual, its not something good or bad, its a mere fact. Why would you be proud about it? Why would people be pride about being heterosexual? Someone who beats his/her chest and keeps saying "im proud about being bi/gay!" is quite ashamed about it deep inside. I don't care if they marry, let them, if they wish to marry its their decision, I won't raise my fist or voice against it, but I still find it a bit twisted. On the other hand, I would certainly deny them religious marriages, as even though gay people are people just like, but still, gay people aren't the ones to write religion, and just for their comfort it would be a dumb idea to profanate a religion. But of course, religions not against gay relationships are okay, they should let them marry under their sign.

[Revenant]

Could gay pride be similar to something like black pride? Might it be a minority group not quite accepted by everyone saying 'We're here, and we're not going away! Accept us!?'

[MadamePapillon]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

In dealing with issues like marriage, I am a little more conservative. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why the privilege of marriage needs to be extended to include same sex couples. Issues of property and the like can be dealt with through civil unions and private contracts between the concerned parties.

Funny you should say that, as I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why the 'privilege' of marriage shouldn't extend to same sex couples.

The whole argument, in my opinion, is just a not-so-subtle way of saying 'you are second class citizens and don't deserve the same rights as straight couples'

[Derfel]

Well I kinda see Reg's point. Its not that they're second class citizens, the same rules apply to them as well, after all heterosexual people can't marry their sex either.

[RegDunlap]

Originally Posted by MadamePapillon

Funny you should say that, as I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why the 'privilege' of marriage shouldn't extend to same sex couples.
The whole argument, in my opinion, is just a not-so-subtle way of saying 'you are second class citizens and don't deserve the same rights as straight couples'

The deserve the same rights as straight couples, just not married couples. See the difference?

Marriage is not an absolute right. It is restricted in a way that it will best benefit society. It is not such a simple thing as two people loving each other.

Currently, marriage is restricted by;

a/ number of participants (currently 2)
b/ age of participants (varies but generally 16 years and up)
c/ relationship of participants (no family member marriages)
d/ gender of participants (one each of male and female)

By changing one of the restrictions, the institution is changed. What then is to stop people from changing OTHER restrictions as well? The Canadian government commissioned a study that came to the same conclusion. There is no logical way to continue to criminalize polygamy or polyamory, when same sex marriage is given approval.

[MadamePapillon]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

The deserve the same rights as straight couples, just not married couples. See the difference?
Marriage is not an absolute right. It is restricted in a way that it will best benefit society. It is not such a simple thing as two people loving each other.
Currently, marriage is restricted by;
a/ number of participants (currently 2)
b/ age of participants (varies but generally 16 years and up)
c/ relationship of participants (no family member marriages)
d/ gender of participants (one each of male and female)
By changing one of the restrictions, the institution is changed. What then is to stop people from changing OTHER restrictions as well? The Canadian government commissioned a study that came to the same conclusion. There is no logical way to continue to criminalize polygamy or polyamory, when same sex marriage is given approval.

And yet we've had gay marriage for going on two years, five in some provinces, and we have yet to have experienced any true problems because of this. If anything it's been positive as Canada has been attracting gay/lesbian tourists which in turn helps the economy.

Life goes on as it always has and everybody is more or less happy, even those who were opposed don't seem inclined to bring it up again now that it's been legalized and hasn't brought forth the apocalypse or anything.

To give reason why or why not same sex marriage should be legalized is basically a non issue, it's already happened in numerous countries and I have yet to see any true downside to it, besides of course the intolerance of some people.

[Mars Man]

Regarding the public exposure by those of the homosexual orientation, I reason that Revenant is most correct in his observation.

Regarding the concept 'marriage,' I have very much come to a rather fixed understanding. Since that would not so relate to the theme of 'sexuality,' I will save that for the other thread which is still on-going, but has been resting a little recently.

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

In dealing with issues like marriage, I am a little more conservative. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why the privilege of marriage needs to be extended to include same sex couples. Issues of property and the like can be dealt with through civil unions and private contracts between the concerned parties.

(bold and underline mine)

I would hope the stressed points, would make the point, on their own.

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

There is no logical way to continue to criminalize polygamy or polyamory, when same sex marriage is given approval.

This is something to look into. I would love to get my hands on a copy of the conclusion of that study.

Originally Posted by MadamePapillon

To give reason why or why not same sex marriage should be legalized is basically a non issue,...

Thus this does, after all's been said and done, reason out to be most correct. The two truly appear to neutralize the other--cross each other out, so to speak--leaving a result of 'non-issue.' (other than that of belief-system validation/verification)


(And I will apologize for not forwarding any other argumemts on that at the moment, I am certain they will come up and be expounding on in so many threads over so many posts, among some already existing theads, and some yet to started. Please bear with me...I just wanted to keep this thread more so on topic, so have declined herein.)

[Annubis]

I've always thought of myself as a gay man in a girl's body.

Maybe it's because I never felt comfortable with girls... I don't know.

But all I know is that I like men and I feel like a man sometimes... hehe... I'm just lucky I'm a girl... cus it's easier in this day and age to find a mate of the opposite sex.

Well... HAHAHA... maybe not, I'm still single even though I'm awesome in bed.

So sex... gender and sexuality are quite contovercial topics and very personal. Throughout my life I've been friends with many homosexual people. I know one that is married. I've worked with them and well... they are the sweetest, most open minded and most fun people I can think of. I am from Montreal, Canada and it is a hub of sexuality. Perhaps that is why everyone is single. Marriage is becoming more and more rare because sex and friendship is all one wants today. Who wants the burden of raising children when you can spend your life having fun?

[Dutch Baka]

Originally Posted by [LEFT

Annubis[/LEFT];536166]I'm still single even though I'm awesome in bed.

You made me laugh (in a positive way).