USA the biggest threat to world peace.

[centrajapan]

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on more than 20 countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia1969-70, Guatemala, 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-2007, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998-2007, Yugoslavia 1999, Pakistan 2005.

The United States has also assisted in over 20 different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen assassinations of political heads of state.

Some examples.

Iran - 1953 - The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of democratically elected Mossadegh and restored the Shah to power.

Guatemala - 1954 - The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Arbenz and placed Colonel Armas in power.

Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing President Allende who had been popularly elected. The CIA helped to establish a military regime under General Pinochet.

Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian passanger planes over the Persian Gulf.

Throughout the world, on any given day, a man, woman or child is likely to be displaced, ... More often than not, the United States shares the blame.

Amnesty International.

http://www.tanzeem.org/

[tokapi]

Anti-Yankee rant

Ur next post .... eh .... America is merchant of deaths for being world's #1 arms peddler

[centrajapan]

Criticism of the country's foreign policy is dealt with by assigning dismissive labels to the critics anti-American, communists, terrorist. The criticisms themselves are never addressed.

[RegDunlap]

Considering that Marxism and Communism were responsible for more than 100 MILLION deaths in the past century,I dont think the USA needs to apologize for very much.

[Hezam]

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on more than 20 countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia1969-70, Guatemala, 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-2007, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998-2007, Yugoslavia 1999, Pakistan 2005.

The United States has also assisted in over 20 different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen assassinations of political heads of state.

Some examples.

Iran - 1953 - The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of democratically elected Mossadegh and restored the Shah to power.

Guatemala - 1954 - The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Arbenz and placed Colonel Armas in power.

Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing President Allende who had been popularly elected. The CIA helped to establish a military regime under General Pinochet.

Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian passanger planes over the Persian Gulf.

who can say this is wrong ?

no one ^^ , so that is right ,the fact is fact ...it wonn't change .....

i agree with you centerjapan

[centrajapan]

Considering that Marxism and Communism were responsible for more than 100 MILLION deaths in the past century,I dont think the USA needs to apologize for very much.

You don't need to support Marxism to find out that US has done alot of terrible things to other people. What you say is like. Since the Nazis killed Jews it is OK for us to do the same. Therefore US does not need to apologize.

When I see a person who owes his freedom and right to speak out that was won by the deaths of thousands of Americans(WWII/Nazies) who forgets it all and backstabs the ones who fought and died for what he has now. O well, guess it's all forgotten history to a young pup?

No it is not forgotten and I think many in Europe are very thankful for the sacrifices Americans made during WW2. However this does not make US entitled to do what they have done the past 50 years.

[Hezam]

i wanna say we should not speak about the past ...

let's be friends, we have to forget the dark past

I ( Hezam ) would see the world and the people live in peace ....

best wishes

[Mars Man]

The presentation in the OP of this thread needs to be backed up better, with more direct reporting, sitations, and bibliographies. I will take the thesis to be 'USA is the biggest threat to world peace.' Also, before we go further, I'd like to settle the definitions of the terms. This may call for a little embedding, but think it would still be in line with the theme of the thread. I'll ask centrajapan to offer definitions first.

I will also point out here, ladies and gentlemen, in that the subject matter of this thread is capable of drawing out emotions, that we all keep our heads on our shoulders please, and keep this discussion calm and fit for the Serious Discussion sub-forum. Thank you. MM

[Uncle Frank]

I'm home sick with a bad cold and under the influance of too many cold medicines.

Uncle Frank

[Mars Man]

I hope you feel better soon !! I always tell my students to eat fresh garlic when the colds come to visit...that chases them away real fast...along with the student's friends as well !!

I will present the definition for USA, as used in the OP title, as being the general government of the USA in the present 21st Century. How's that?

[tokapi]

Originally Posted by Mars Man

I will present the definition for USA, as used in the OP title, as being the general government of the USA in the present 21st Century. How's that?

How about ... http://www.newamericancentury.org/

[Mars Man]

Nah...I'll keep it the same, because those behind that project are government related, and in my definition, I allowed room for such with the usage of the word 'general.'

Thanks for the link !! It takes all kinds, doesn't it. I hope to hear from the OP too.

[Mycernius]

Why is the OP so shocked at this? Whoever is the most powerful nation at the time will act aggressively. The UK is an excellent example. The British Empire whent around acting as if the entire planet was its own for centuries. Before that Spain, France, The Mongol empire, Romans, China, The Ancient Egyptians. As for world peace, I doubt you can lay all the worlds evils at Amercas doorstep. One of humans greatest acheivements is that we can be nasty little buggers when we want to be and we have plenty of excuses just to be nasty to each other. The US is currently King of the Castle at the moment, but someone always knocks the top dog off.

[Mars Man]

While that was very well put, Mycernius, and obviously very correct, I had hoped (and still do) to make this into a full-blown academic-like discussion. For that reason, I would reason that we do need definitions and all. Well, it's lights out time here, but I'll catch it tomorrow.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

My biggest problem with the american government and military is how they have handled the war in Iraq. Whether you agree with the reasons over why america went to war with Iraq or not, you have to admit that it has really screwed the country up and has made many mistakes with it and overal could have and should have done a much better job with the country. My sympathy lies with the people of Iraq, they have suffered so much...

The "war on terror" as Bush put it has been a fantastic **** up- America is now more likely to be targeted by terrorists right now than what it ever has been, how could Bush ever believe that he could subdue violent terrorists with violence when the reason why the terrorists are so violent is because of america's violent, arrogant and heavy handed tactics in their countries and more? The peaceful Dalai Lama has done far more for world peace than what any powerful politician like Bush has done in this day and age.


I do like america, most americans i have met are good people, but i do not agree with its government and the way it is been run.

[RegDunlap]

One very big difference with the US is that they have never tried to colonize anyone or steal their land. Sure, they wave a big stick once in a while, but thats a bout all. Sometimes mistakes do happen, c'est la vie. Most of the time, though, it involves killing people who need killing, such as Saddam and his evil brood.

If the US is such a nasty predatory place, why is it that so many millions of people around the world try so hard to get INTO it?

[tokapi]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

One very big difference with the US is that they have never tried to colonize anyone or steal their land.

***************** **********************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Wars

*Hawaii
*The Philippines
*Puerto Rico

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

One very big difference with the US is that they have never tried to colonize anyone or steal their land. Sure, they wave a big stick once in a while, but thats a bout all. Sometimes mistakes do happen, c'est la vie. Most of the time, though, it involves killing people who need killing, such as Saddam and his evil brood.
If the US is such a nasty predatory place, why is it that so many millions of people around the world try so hard to get INTO it?

Of course the americans have tried to colonise places, america itself used to belong to another race before we all imigrated there and kicked the natives off the land and set up our lodges and gold mines.
And what about japan? You don't forget that the americans occupied japan after the japanese lost the war and many americans went to live in japan, changing its government and the way its people lived.



Iraq's Health Minister Ali al-Shemari said in November 2006 that since the March 2003 invasion between 100,000-150,000 Iraqis have been killed. Al-Shemari said on Thursday, Nov. 9, that he based his figure on an estimate of 100 bodies per day brought to morgues and hospitals.


Do you honestly think the killing of saddam justified all these deaths in the process? If you think that most of the time america kills people that need killing, then this is hardly the case at all if you look at the massive civilian casuality statistics from the war in iraq.


Saddam may have not been that great, but at the very least at least people were leading a better quality of life and more stable and prosperous existance under his regime than under the regime the americans now have iraq under.

The americans have failed to instal democracey or any kind of order in iraq, democracey is a nice thing in concept but it simply doesn't work in countries such as iraq where there has always been such opposite religious tension between the people.
Saddam might have been quite heavy-handed in his tactics at times, however it was the only way to run the country and keep it prospering and focused on the same goals. The americans did and do not respect the people of iraq nor the many cultural and political problems they had and have, they blundered into the country demolishing buildings and killing people left, right and centre, the current government and systems of law collasped around them and with that collasped any stability the country had under Saddam. Its no wonder why so many people hate America.


And no offence, but to say "If the US is such a nasty predatory place, why is it that so many millions of people around the world try so hard to get INTO it?" is one of the most arrogant and dumbest things i've heard in ages. Immigration into the country has very little to do with people's feelings over its government and the way it is run. As much as i dislike many aspects about what america has done, if i was some starving african living in a slum i would still probably go to america if i had a chance, where this is a lot of work and employment over there in comparsion to many other countries, even if i hated the bush regime.
edit: As long as there are places worse to live in than america, there will always be some who want to immigrate to it.

[RegDunlap]

I thought the scope of the discussion was the post WW2 years. In that time, the US has not, AFAIK, colonized or conquered anyone. Every country, were you to dig far enough into its past, has nasty stuff. Mea culpa and move on.

Yes, the US occupied Japan after WW2. Then THEY LEFT. Voluntarily. They did not demand territory or tribute.

Frankly, most of the hatred of the US seems to come from the left, NOT from the world. How else could you explain Sarkozy, a great admirer of the US, getting elected? Or Harper in Canada, or Aznar in Spain, etc.

As to immigration, the obvious answer is that there is no nation on earth as accepting of strangers as the US. Why dont the poor and downtrodden try to go to Sweden or Switzerland or Germany? Because they know that they will be accepted with open arms in the US. Be welcomed into the social fabric as soon as they choose to embrace the society and mores of the country. This applies to citizens of all nations, not just "starving Africans".

Similarly, were the US to be so bad, one should see a huge flight OUT ofthe US to other, more progressive, nations. Strange how that doesnt seem to be happening, eh?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

Yes, the US occupied Japan after WW2. Then THEY LEFT. Voluntarily. They did not demand territory or tribute.

No, americans still occupy japan. If they left, then why are there all the american military bases in japan? Why is there so much land in japan owned by the americans?
Example;

"The case is likely to fuel resentment that 26,000 of the 48,000 US military personnel in Japan are hosted in Okinawa, even though the islands makes up less than 1% of the Japanese landmass."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/2993492.stm

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

As to immigration, the obvious answer is that there is no nation on earth as accepting of strangers as the US. Why dont the poor and downtrodden try to go to Sweden or Switzerland or Germany? Because they know that they will be accepted with open arms in the US. Be welcomed into the social fabric as soon as they choose to embrace the society and mores of the country. This applies to citizens of all nations, not just "starving Africans".
Similarly, were the US to be so bad, one should see a huge flight OUT ofthe US to other, more progressive, nations. Strange how that doesnt seem to be happening, eh?

Lol, where do you base your beliefs that america is the most accepting nation of strangers on earth? And for a start i wouldn't exactly describe germany as "downtrodden".

If immigrants are all so happy and satisfied in america, then why did over a million of them boycott work and turned out at May Day protest rallies? Why are there so many americans unhappy with the levels of immigrants entering their country? You should read up on this article for more info;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4968398.stm


"Similarly, were the US to be so bad, one should see a huge flight OUT ofthe US to other, more progressive, nations. Strange how that doesnt seem to be happening, eh?"



Why would there be a fightout between america and one of the more powerful nations? These countries aren't run by morals, they're run by trade, power and profit, as long as it is profitable to be on the good side of america then there will never be such a war based on whether america is morally "bad" or not etc.

[Derfel]

You only need to compare two numbers.
The OP is the kind of person who compares Liechtenstein to the USA.
Say there were 30 murder cases in Liechtenstein last year and 10 000 in the USA.
What does this mean when asking the OP? There are 333.333 times as many criminals amongst the inhabitants of the United States... well yeah, continue toking please.
But we forgot one thing, Liechtenstein's population is probably several hundred times smaller than the USA's. What the hell is so surprising about the fact that loads of things happen in, and due to a country with such population, military power and in general significance?

[RegDunlap]

Sorry, the US doesnt occupy Japan. They have bases in Japan. A very different situation, as most people with a junior high school education would probably realize.

Asfor the May Day situation, you may find that many of those bitching and complaining are illegal aliens. Hardly representative of the generations of immigrants that enjoy life in the US. As for immigration,the vast majority of Americans welcome legal, controlled immigration of people who want to make America their home. They do NOT favour lawbreaking, illegal activity, and the like. There IS a difference.

I did not say a "fight" , I said a "FLIGHT". As in people fleeing the US and heading for other, better, more peaceful and morally sound, nations.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

Asfor the May Day situation, you may find that many of those bitching and complaining are illegal aliens. Hardly representative of the generations of immigrants that enjoy life in the US. As for immigration,the vast majority of Americans welcome legal, controlled immigration of people who want to make America their home. They do NOT favour lawbreaking, illegal activity, and the like. There IS a difference.

I'm sure there are many happy immigrants in america, but why shouldn't over a million immigrants be representive of at least some of the problems with immigration in america? Or do you choose to believe that almsot every immigrant is happy in america and that america is the best thing since sliced bread?
Of course america doesn't favor lawbreaking and illegal activity, but a large percentage of those million+ immigrants that attended that protest were actually lawbiding and respectful citizens, or do you just choose to ignore their voice because there may be some illegal immigrants in the mix?

Originally Posted by RegDunlap

I did not say a "fight" , I said a "FLIGHT". As in people fleeing the US and heading for other, better, more peaceful and morally sound, nations.

Why would people want to flee the US? Just because its politically done some bad things, doesn't mean that its otherwise a good place to live in certain respects. And you forget my country- in England we have had a huge influx of immigrants since that war your country declared in Iraq.....


If america killed 5million people in iraq would you pack up your bags and immigrate to another country? Probably not, but then why do you argue the point that if america's done bad things politcally then people would move out of the country?


And anyway, i'm sure we will start to see many americans moving over to places like England, what with all your increasingly weak dollar and housing mortgage problems and all......


I'm not saying america is a bad country, i never have, but on the other hand i am not naive enough to believe its the best thing sliced bread and better than any other place on earth etc. America has to take responsability for all the sh*t and suffering its caused in Iraq and answer to its people and be honest with them over serious problems like why its dollar its becomming record-breakingly weak, or why they're one of the hottest targets for terrorists in the western world at the moment etc...

[Goldiegirl]

More people try to get into the USA illegally than any other country in the world. If my country is that bad why do so many people want in, and to top it off WE can all LEAVE if we want to. There isn't a giant exodus out of the USA. There is a giant exodus INTO the country. Wow, we must be so warlike that people are forced to come here. Isn't it amazing that the country you say is the threat to peace allows foreigners off all kinds into it's borders. Isn't great that you can bring the Koran, a Bible, into my country and it's not illegal. Isn't in great that a British teacher is in jail for having her students name a teddy bear Mohmmed? Not every American believes in war, but here we have the RIGHT to VOTE, both men and women and all faiths, we can end our wars through the power of the people. It may take time, but at least it's a civilized and orderly process, with out the fear of being car bombed, or killed by a suicide bomber. We also don't support terrorism, we actually face our enemies, not attack them with bombs strapped to our youth or hidden in cars and trucks.

[Derfel]

There are always people coming and going. Its not like the US is a huuuge aquarium with unbreakable walls.