North American Culture - What do you think?

[MadamePapillon]

While the idea for this thread came from an older topic (disagreement) this thread is not meant to build on any argument but rather to stand alone as a seperate topic.

Quite a few times the subject of N. American culture (or lack therof) has come up and while I disagree that we don't have a culture I'm interested in the rest of your opinions on the subject.

Relatively speaking, N. America (being both the US and Canada) is a fairly new country, having been only truly established about 300 years ago. Even so, it's people come from old countries such as Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Poland, and, of course, Africa. This has resulted in much interbreeding among different people and a blending of the old cultures, resulting in people identifying with numerous historys and creating (as has been stated many times before) a cultural melting pot.
Myself, in addition to being white, black and native on both sides of my family, there is an intermingling of the different nationalities of those races to the point where I am completely in the dark about the majority of my roots, and my features are such that people think I'm everything from European to Asian. The only thing I'm certain of is being French...and, ironically, I have a French name, both in real life and on this forum...hmm

So, does that mean I am cultureless...or does it mean I have a claim to more cultural background than most? That is the heart of this issue. Does being N. American mean we have more or less culture because of all the intermingling?

Old traditions are often not celebrated but for some reason old stories of Ancient Greece and Rome survive, we don't wear traditional homeland clothes but many know and identify with Ancient Germanic and Greek mythology. A family may have spaghetti one day and quiche the next.

It is a definite mish mash of the old world but does it count as being a culture?

As for the more modern, it's hard to identify but to be certain many of the modern things you see stemmed from N. America but rather than staying here and becoming unique to us they were almost immediately exported across the world. So does it really count as our culture when half the world has it to?
Does rock and roll, pop, hip hop or jazz qualify as our cultural music? Or do blue jeans and miniskirts qualify as ours. How about the different technologys and medicines? Or our government policies?
Where is the line drawn between what we have a claim to culturally or what is public property of the world?

....So, bottom line, do you think N. America has a culture or has everything we would have had a claim to turned into public property, and if so, what is the future of N. American culture with the rise of globalization?

[tokapi]

N American culture is little muddy at this moment due to infusions of non-European peoples & non-Western cultures.

There is a newly coined cultural idea in the US ... salad bowl ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_bowl_(cultural_idea)

[Goldiegirl]

Christmas time was always a time when I noticed that we all celebrated differently. My family put our shoe out for St. Nick and I thought everyone did that. I guess that is from perhaps the Danish side of my family? So I think that we all retain parts of our previous heritage, although I never researched the whole "shoe" thing for St. Nick. Also food is a big part of culture. My family loves pork and saurkraut dishes, pickled pigs feet (YIKES!), braunschweiger; which are foods from the German side of our family tree and then corned beef and cabage, turnips, from the Irish side and beer, which covers all sides!

[MadamePapillon]

I've never heard of putting out a shoe for Santa (St. Nick), Goldiegirl. We always did stockings, with the traditional turkey dinner.
We always had a lot of steak and potatoes, shepeards pie, fried chicken (of course), and homemade stews. I'm not sure where most of that comes from but my sister is starting to get into making traditional southern recipes.

And, Tokapi, there is some confusion with the sudden mass asian immigration. I know it's certainly changing Canada as the two groups are very different from each other.
In fact, I remember a scandal that happened a few months ago where a Korean man refused to renew the leases of several locally owned buinesses so that they would have to leave to make room for soley Korean owned buisnesses. I'm not sure if it was resolved or not but that comes back to that "Salad Bowl" idea. I think the majority would be opposed to it as it implies that all people of different cultures would stay seperate and not bother integrating into the rest of the local population, and everyone knows situations like that only breed hostile feelings among both sides.
While nobody is expecting them to give up their cultures there is a certain expectation that immigrants will do their best to fit in and live along side the rest of us rather than retreating into their own bubble communities.

Anyways, slightly off topic but it's a definite concern in places with high immigration like N. America.

[Doc]

Our culture will be the death of us. That's how I feel about North American culture.

-Doc

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by MadamePapillon

So, does that mean I am cultureless...or does it mean I have a claim to more cultural background than most? That is the heart of this issue. Does being N. American mean we have more or less culture because of all the intermingling?

This is a good question and something I think most North Americans deal with, having ancestors that have come from different countries. I've traveled across the U.S. a few times, and even in each state there seemed to be a different culture. Just slight differences in attitudes or way of interacting with people, and even different accents.

My father is American and my mother is from England - I always felt in the middle of both of those cultures. I think what is probably happening is that our culture is being redefined all the time. I think even every family has a different culture, and then even every individual.

[scorpion da black]

the reason why the word culture is used to describe the norms and traditions of a nation is because it is same as planting ...farming...
crops take time to be made...and it also need effort..that is where the word cult comes from.
the American society has not been around for long time compared to the ages of other nations..so i would say the American society is still in the process of making a culture of its own. but it is harder than other nations since America is a society of multi racialism, multy faith..etc..
imagine how much time it would take to melt them all in one pot

[Clawn]

My mother's side of the family is entirely Polish, and my father's is Danish through and through. However, I've always experienced more Danish cultural nuances than Polish, mainly because my father was born and raised there. My mother was raised in an army family and went to a private Catholic school, so most of her culture comes from the cultural diversity of the armed forces and some of the morals of her Catholic upbringing. However, I believe that there is plenty North American culture. In fact, it seems to be so popular that things like rock and roll and blue jeans have spread across the world.

I do believe, though, that as globalization takes its hold on the world, that our various cultures will become less and less profound. Whether that's a curse or a blessing is still up for debate.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

I lived 1½ year in America, near New York.
I have very often been in New York of course. What attracted me in the U.S. was ( as Clawn mentioned) the rock and roll music, the Jazz. I found most of the Americans quite open and interested in others. I did noticed that I was found a very relaxed person and even while I was dressed like any other woman in America, it was still very clear that I was a European to everybody and that surprised me.
I really didn't like the "Time is money" attitude. I know New York is a very big city, but still.
I once crossed the Fith Avenue while I was day-dreaming so I didn't notice that I had to to wait before crossing.
I just walked on while the cars started driving and then I stood still in the middle of the Fith Avenue. I turned around towards the cars and the one in front of me stopped and so did all the cars behind him. Nobody yelled at me, people in the cars that passed me just looked at me as if I came from another planet. When I could walk on, I quickly thanked the gentleman in the first car that stopped for me and went on to the other side of the Avenue. There was a policeman waiting for me. He asked me if I was blind or something and asked me where I came from. From Holland. Then he told me that he had never seen anybody so calm standing there with all those driving cars around her.
Nobody was angry just amazed. In Holland I would have received a bill and many people would have pointed at their foreheads to make it clear that I was crazy.

The assortment of food, was a paradise for me. One finds the ingredients, the seasons, the vegetables and fruit for all recipees in the world. Really fantastic!

A negative culture in America in my eyes was; Everything is bigger and better than anywhere else in the world"

I know extremely little about Canada, but I guess that some things are quite different from the States, somehow.

[MadamePapillon]

I don't think that globalization is such a big threat to culture as many people seem to think it is. This is just coming from my experience mostly in Canada but by all reasoning, with all the many peoples of vastly different cultures and habits, many people would have expected the country to be swept away in the tide.
I think the opposite is actually happening. Our culture is certianly being influenced by others, especially by asian culture lately, but I think this has actually created a stronger sense of cultural identity and a desire among many people to not only rediscover where we come from but to start carving out our own niche in the world.
I'm not sure how the same would work with people of an already well established culture like Japan, I'm not sure if they would have the same resilience and flexibility that N. America has in that area. People of old cultures tend to be very resistant to change and get very defensive if they percieve a threat to their way of life. I suppose globalization would be a scary prospect to them.

And Sarapva, I agree with you. It's funny visiting the different states because some of them almost feel like their own county within a country, especially the southern states. We are more individualistic here so there isn't much, if any, pressure to choose between our different backgrounds, we are allowed to take bits and pieces of each and make it our own or to even choose one and go with it.

@ Doc : Why would you think N. American culture will be the death of us? Do you mean in terms of lifestyle, attitudes, consumption? That's pretty vague.


(On a funnier note, a list of the Happiest People on Earth. I thought it was interesting and wanted to share it with the rest of the class
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?...05_july29_2006)

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Thank you for the list of the Happiest People on Earth!

Do you also know that Denmark and Switzerland, on top of this list, don't want to many foreigners from outside Europe, coming to stay in their countries?

[centrajapan]

If Danes are the happiest people on this planet then how come Denmarks suicide rate is high?

Americans Are World's Most Patriotic People, National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago Finds

The United States was followed by Austria, Canada, Ireland and New Zealand in the average ranking of two national-pride scales: the National Pride in Specific Achievements scale, which asked questions related to pride in achievements in 10 areas, and the General National Pride scale, which gauged people's assessment of their country's national identity and purpose.

Americans, with a score of 38.5, rated their country tops in political influence, economic performance, scientific and technical accomplishments, and the ability of the armed forces. Canadians, with a score of 37.5, gave their country the highest rating for democratic values, while Austrians (36.5) rated their country at the top for its social security program.


http://www-news.uchicago.edu/release...triotism.shtml

[Clawn]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

If Danes are the happiest people on this planet then how come Denmarks suicide rate is high?

Perhaps, in their blissful state, the people of Denmark become so overcome with joy that they lose all ties to reality and inadvertantly kill themselves in their happy convulsions? Just a theory, but it holds promise, no?

I don't think that globalization is such a big threat to culture as many people seem to think it is.

Many people in countries where industrialization came late or the general populace has little contact with the outside world feel that Western European and American culture is overtaking their own. They see local shops put out of business by the powerhouses of Wal-Mart and McDonald's. They see a different style of dress overtaking their young people and the languages they had learned as children being forgotten in favor of English. Things like this give rise to much "bad-blood" between many "western" countries and people in nations in less developed areas such as parts of Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. These people feel their way of life is being torn apart and replaced by one that they see as strange and, in some cases, uncivilized. This has given rise to many groups and factions that wish to stop globablization, and some of them are violent.

In short, it doesn't matter if we don't think globalization is an issue, there are some who feel its is a big threat to their way of life. And, essentially, globalization is the spread of "western," aka. American, influences.

Which brings me back to the topic at hand. (knew I'd get back here sooner or later) Perhaps the original issue of North American culturelessness has something to do with the fact that North Americans have spread their influence so far and have so little else to compare with that our culture seems undistinguished and, at times, non-existant.

[centrajapan]

Perhaps, in their blissful state, the people of Denmark become so overcome with joy that they lose all ties to reality and inadvertantly kill themselves in their happy convulsions? Just a theory, but it holds promise, no?

haha.Could be.

The North American and European cultures are quite similar. It was after all the Europeans who emigrated to North America. Its probably most similar to UK. But the Scadninavian culture share lots of similarities to the UK culture and the German, Dutch. ALl in all. Its not as if I as an European go to USA I will find my self in a deep state of a culture shock, deer stare in the head light look.

You guys are probably more patriotic than Europeans. It looks like it from my perspective. North Americans dont go around killing each other over sports games. I think they have come further than Europeans on that front. But in other areas not. Such as human right violations and stuff like that. Well I guess Canada is known to be a humane country.

[Sarapva]

It's interesting to think about things from this perspective - I've never thought before about how the North American culture is diverse, whereas in some countries there hasn't been a lot of immigration or mingling of different cultures. This does throw some light on how westerners are perceived in eastern countries, and how countries like Japan could feel threatened by the western influence.

[MadamePapillon]

In short, it doesn't matter if we don't think globalization is an issue, there are some who feel its is a big threat to their way of life. And, essentially, globalization is the spread of "western," aka. American, influences.

Which brings me back to the topic at hand. (knew I'd get back here sooner or later) Perhaps the original issue of North American culturelessness has something to do with the fact that North Americans have spread their influence so far and have so little else to compare with that our culture seems undistinguished and, at times, non-existant.

The fact is that this wouldn't be an issue of people from other countries didn't buy into it. If they are truly serious about protecting their own cultures and ways of life than McDonalds and Starbucks wouldn't have a customer base there.
The fact that those companies can set up shop and flourish in other countries is testament that there's is a big market for it. I'll bet you anything there's people who whine and complain about how America is taking over the world while at the same time buying a mocha latte and wearing Calvin Klein jeans.

But I think you hit the heart of our 'culturelessness'. It's not that we don't have a culture but that our culture is everywhere, being blended into countless other countries to the point where everyone is confused about what is ours and theirs, if is can even be called that anymore.

It's funny because wasn't that the ultimate goal from the start. Why missionaries and cultural ambassadors were being sent out for years and years. It started with Britian trying to convert everyone to christianity and make the world more like them...I guess you could say we're finishing the job, and the rest of the world is eating it up faster than a 1/4 Pound Cheeseburger.

[Chi65]

Little sidemark, once it was mentioned, the shoe outside the door on the night to the 6th of december, and if possible polished well, is an old habit in Germany. I grew up with it.
No idea, where this comes from.
Also we celebrate christmas on the 24th in the evening, by the way. No stockings hanging around then, except some washed ones

[centrajapan]

Mc Donalds and Starbucks is not exactly quality is it? Hip hip hooray for North American culture. Mass popularity does not mean quality. After all Britney Spears and Spice Girls sold millions of records. In Japan I did not hear anyone who thought US was coller than Europe. But that could be because they were kind to me as me being European. Yoroppa suki. Amerika kirai was something I heard many many times.

As for pop culture. In Tokyo there is a big techno scene and most techno comes from Germany, UK, US, Scandinavia, Canada, France. And the best fashion brands are European and the uncool furniture Ikea Swedish and the coolest design Danish.

It seemed as if Europe had a better ring than USA.

As for Xmas. No stockings in Scandinavia either. And Xmas in Scandinavian is called Jul a pagan word. And presents are opened after dinner on the 24th. Santa is called the Yule Elf. St. Nicolaus was some Dutch or Germand dude.

[Goldiegirl]

I don't think culture is commercialism. I don't live in a Starbucks. I drink their coffee. My family has different values, relgion, and we eat different food and celebrate our holidays in a different style then my neighbors. I have Indian neighbors and they aren't even closely like my family. So what then is my culture and what is their culture. The only thing we have in common is that we live in the USA.

sorry, I just had to add this. centrajapan it's obvious that you can't stand the USA so why don't you just post "I hate all Americans and their country." No matter what anybody says to you, you will always disagree and can't seem to see there is more going on here than in any other country. We have the most mixed society that there is. We have people literally from every country living here. Not too many countries can say that. So I can't respect your arguments because they are all based on hatred and not intelligence.

[centrajapan]

Stop putting a label. I dont hate USA. Its just that I dont think its that great either. I think the US government is really stupid and the American public to be equally as stupid for electing that government. But just like anything else. US has its good and bad sides.

Be good if you guys stopped being so overly proud of your country and stopped killing innocent civilians.

[Goldiegirl]

That makes me laugh you don't hate the USA but the government is stupid and so are the American public. Thank-you for proving my point! Arigato!

[scorpion da black]

i regret to tell you that the first colonists were criminals given lands to establish a new world in plantations like Virginia....
and most of them are linked with Indian massacres

that is a heritage that is not be proud of...
but a lot of Americans are to be praised for realizing the faults their ancestors were doing and atoned to that through being an example for multi cultural tolerance...

of course there will always be radicals and racist fascists ...it is note easy to wipe all the racism America knew before the sixties ....and Bush centrajapan my friend is one of them....the new conservatives are all racist radicals...and they are adopting an Ideology found in modern US since president Wilson was in power

[Goldiegirl]

This is supposed to be about North American culture. I would assume that means today's culture not the culture of the American colonists. Let's get back to the issue. Bush is not the sole North American culture. The United states is full of cultures from all over the world. And as long as you aren't a cannibal, or criminal you can be whatever you want and celebrate what holidays you want. In Canada there is Quebec that has a very French feel and they speak French. There's no French speaking around me, that's not my culture. Also there are native people in Canada like the Inuits, who are in Alaska too, I am sure they live very differently from me and yet they too are Canadian and American. I suppose it's hard for people who have limited views because their countries aren't a mix of people. It must be hard to understand how different a country can be from one area to the next.

[centrajapan]

Why do you have to sing the national anthem as often as you do? I just find it to be strange. Before each sporting event you sing the national anthem. Is it because you have to keep reminding yourself that you guys are American? Why do you put your hands in front of your heart? God Bless America. wa wa wa. I saw this baseball game in US and they had war planes flying over and some dude singing the anthem and then telling what a great nation US is and people worked themselves in a frenzy. Weirdos.

North America is not diverse. You all speak the same language and there is not much difference in accents. In Europe you drive for 5 hours in car and you experience 4 languages and 18 dialects which is more different than any North American English accent. It is not THAT diverse.

The Native American culture not thriving. Most of them live below the poverty line in warn down refugee camps. Alcoholism and suicide is shy high. You have the most people in prison per capita in the world too.

Not much freedom of press either compared with the European countries or Japan. Its not bad but its not that marvelous either.

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

Before each sporting event you sing the national anthem. Is it because you have to keep reminding yourself that you guys are American?

This is one of the sub-cultures! I don't like sporting events at all.

You all speak the same language and there is not much difference in accents. In Europe you drive for 5 hours in car and you experience 4 languages and 18 dialects which is more different than any North American English accent.

Europe probably is more diverse in languages and accents, but if someone from the U.S. north goes to the south (or vice versa), they have a hard time understanding what anyone is saying!

posted by scorpion da black:

that is a heritage that is not be proud of...
but a lot of Americans are to be praised for realizing the faults their ancestors were doing and atoned to that through being an example for multi cultural tolerance...

Thank you, scorpion. I think we've come a long way, though of course it's still not a good situation for Native Americans. We still need to work harder on that.