The Hunt has started & so has the chase!

[Kyoto Returnee]

Well guys, the Aussies are pursuing this to the end and good luck to them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7178257.stm
Let's hope we eventually see an end to the barbaric slaughter of whales by Japan for "scientific purposes".

[Sarapva]

If they can save even one whale, it will be a victory - best of luck to the Oceanic Viking, The Sea Shepherd, and Greenpeace!!

[Chi65]

It plans to kill about 900 minke whales and 50 fin whales by mid-April 2008 as part of what it calls a scientific research programme.

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now!

And killing for that reminds me on other real bad methods, with other animals plus humans. Combined with using a word like "harvest" it only makes me vomit.

[centrajapan]

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now

The only way Japan can hunt whales is if they conduct scientific research. The reason why IWC was established in the first place was so that countries and people could harvest the whales without making them go extinct.

Countries who become members of IWC sign a declaration that they will work towards the best interest of the whaling industry in accordance to scientific numbers. Therefore. The problem lies not with Japan but others for opposing Japan.

[Chi65]

That was not meant with my question. . .

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by Chi65

I don't understand what that amount has to do with scientific research.
That really finally does it to me now!

This is the whole controversy - Japan wants to hunt commercially, but can only get permits for scientific research. But everyone knows those numbers are commercial hunting in disguise. This is the reason Japan is having "company" out on the sea!

[Chi65]

I know that, I mean it more like a symbolic question. . .since its obviously a fake to cover other interests...indeed.
. . .and not racism related ones, as some fanatics wish us to believe either.

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by Sarapva

This is the whole controversy - Japan wants to hunt commercially, but can only get permits for scientific research. But everyone knows those numbers are commercial hunting in disguise. This is the reason Japan is having "company" out on the sea!

I disgree with you.

Long time ago, whaling was banned by IWC because of number of catch and disappearing whales. So "Protecting species of Whales" was subject. It was not either research or commercial.

When whales increased in the ocean, anti-whalers said "commercial" is a problem, but research is possible.

Today anti-whalers says "ecology" is a problem, or "whale is cute" or "because Inuits are special" "Norway and Iceland are not Japanese".

As I said, anti-whalers (mostly Westerners) always change the rule in order to justify their claim. This is very hopeless to Japanese, and only hatred remain.

Probably Japanese wish never be attained because Whites are still majority in this planet and ruling this planet.

And this is the same root in the conflict between West and Middle East.
Australian and othet anti-whalers are lucky because Japan is modest and they know Japanese are always stepping back when they speak "Loud".

However, others (other Asians/African) look different. Future must be interesting.

[Chi65]

I wish, someone would explain more properly, what "scientific research" in this really means, in detail, what kind of accepted research, and is there really one and why there are so many whales needed. That still sounds awkward to me, sorry to say.

By the way, in the "west" there are also people that think, that many Chinese, who have spread out all over the world, are much more a leading force than the whites, even if not on the surface, be it like sleepers. . .their strong family ties work all over the planet. Since Dshinghis Khan there is also a subconscious fear of the "yellow race" in the european part at least, easily transported to America as well.
(I am kind of blue eyed in this and "embrace" other "colours" and influences as an artist, but had to learn, that these hidden levels very well exist in many).
Just to keep this additionally in mind, dear astroboy. Fear can grow strange flowers, on all sides. But they can as well be pointless on the scales.

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by Chi65

I wish, someone would explain more properly, what "scientific research" in this really means, in detail, what kind of accepted research, and is there really one and why there are so many whales needed. That still sounds awkward to me, sorry to say.

The scientific research is a decision by the International Whaling Commission (IWC) to study whale populations, etc. I don't know all the details about what's done in the research, but here is a link to the "Scientific Whaling Permits" page from IWC:

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm

Since the ‘moratorium’ came into effect after 1986, Japan, Norway and Iceland have issued scientific permits as part of their research programmes. In recent years, only Japan and Iceland have issued permits. Recent discussions have centred on accusations that such permits have been issued merely as a way around the moratorium decision; these have been countered by claims that the catches are essential to obtain information necessary for rational management and other important research needs.

As part of their response to the decision for a pause in commercial whaling, some member governments have implemented major research programmes which may include the sampling of whales caught under special permits which the Convention allows them to grant.

posted by Astroboy:

When whales increased in the ocean, anti-whalers said "commercial" is a problem, but research is possible.

This has all been decided by the countries who belong to the IWC, including Japan. It's not just "anti-whalers" "telling" people what they can or can't do - it's countries voting on what decisions to make.

[Chi65]

And that "scientific research" needs the kill the amount of "900 minke whales and 50 fin whales" ?? Those regulations to me are more like throwing sand into the watcher's eyes under the given circumstances.

I can't help. Its kind of unbelievable. . .

Particularly if you consider some whales for sure just been eaten or sold, at least those who do this should not mix up with any research program rules to give the usual child another name nor complain about any commity rules as long as they are travelling under their flags.
They clearly should allow and always be prepared to be watched at least. If not, there is something very foul. . .

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by Chi65

Particularly if you consider some whales for sure just been eaten or sold, at least those who do this should not mix up with any research program rules to give the usual child another name nor complain about any commity rules as long as they are travelling under their flags.
They clearly should allow and always be prepared to be watched at least. If not, there is something very foul. . .

Yes - they should be prepared to be monitored under these circumstances. This is the reason for the disapproval of Japan's whaling - too many whales, and whale meat being sold and eaten even though they were supposed to be for research.

[caster51]

 too many whales, and whale meat being sold and eaten even though they were supposed to be for research

You should eat if it rots it.


http://www.whaling.jp/english/index.html

[kame]

Japan is the only whaling country that still has a tiny bit of faith in IWC, hoping that someday IWC would return to its original mission. If anti-whaling nations will blow that hope away by taking the reasearch whaling away from Japan, I think Japan has no choice but to say final sayonara to IWC and will go their own way with Norway and Iceland.

I don't think that would be a good senario for the whales, but the Japanese government is too far invested in whaling and definitely not ready to give it up just yet. Scientific whaling has been an unwritten political truce between Japan and the rest of the IWC for a long time but the rather naive new Australian administration decided to breach it.

[centrajapan]

While I think Japan has every right to whale it is also due to their incompitence in the negotiation process that there is such strong anti Japan sentiments. I am not sure exactly why Norway dont even have to request for a whaling quota yet Japan is getting hammered for sceintific research.. I think it was because Norway lodged an objection to the whaling ban in 1990 or so while Japan didnt because they didnt want to be too controversial. Now for not objecting it has back fired on Japan.

[kame]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

I think it was because Norway lodged an objection to the whaling ban in 1990 or so while Japan didnt because they didnt want to be too controversial. Now for not objecting it has back fired on Japan.

Exactly. But if Australia thinks they can pressure Japan to totally give up whaling, they are totally miscalculating the situation. First of all, Australia is not the US. If they think they can pressure Japan like Americans do, they are pathetically overestimating their influence.

Americans are good at coarsing Japanese into doing what they want, but they know enough to push the button when they should. The US government is not willing to risk US-Japan relationship on few thousand whales Japan hunts as long as they call it is for research, when they can't even tell their citizens to stop hunting endangered whales.

A politically savvy move for the anti-whalers was to maintain the formal restriction on Japanese whaling and let them call it what they want. Australia is trying to push Japan off the cliff now, which could totally undermine the IWC-led control regime which was dysfunctional but has served more to the anti-whalers' interests than those of the pro-whalers. Very naive and politically stupid move.

Just so you know, those ugly youtube movies (from both sides) are getting quite a lot of attention in Japan, especially among younger people. Nobody in Japan had really seen those brutal kangaroo slaughter videos, and hardly knew that they were killed in millions every year until the naive Prime Minister started talking like the head of anti-whaling NGO/NPOs. That really hurt the public image of Australia, which I am sure will have a negative impact on tourism.

[centrajapan]

Exactly. But if Australia thinks they can pressure Japan to totally give up whaling, they are totally miscalculating the situation. First of all, Australia is not the US. If they think they can pressure Japan like Americans do, they are pathetically overestimating their influence.

The Australian government is pissing me off to tell you the truth. Basically it is due to their imperialistic, close minded, emotional arguments they think they can pull it off. No scientific or environmental justification.

In a way I hope this escalates. To start boycotting each other in trade. Japan having a much greater economy and Australia being more dependent on Japan than visa versa. Make Australia go bankrupt and they can go walk about Waltzing Matilda.

A bunch of racist fanatics. Really close minded.

Australians kill kangaroos for fun and they say. Ah, the whales are great animals. It could be because they are afraid that Japan will import less meat. Whale meat can become a direct threat to their un eco beef business.

Japan should have lodged an objection back then. Iceland even left IWC at one stage and then there was world wide boycott. The biggest non incident in world history.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Greenpeace has caught up with the whalers and has em on the run

Hopefully with all the international pressure, Australia and the US included, we will put a stop to this

[Chi65]

I am with Greenpeace in this here, not with those who project onto others, what they are themsleves. . .
The amount of whales for "scientific research" is much too high and thats a fact.

[centrajapan]

I did not know you guys supported violence. Thats quite scary. If people are against whaling they should do that by coming with argument rather than violent tactics. People should have a right to disagree but people should distance themselves from using violence.
I thought Greenpeace was a non violent organization. Due to violent tactics by groups like Greenpeace the IWC came with a resolution condemning these acts of terrorism.
RESOLUTION ON THE SAFETY OF VESSELS ENGAGED IN WHALING AND WHALE RESEARCH-RELATED ACTIVITIES

WHEREAS the safety of vessels and crew and the order of maritime navigation are, and have long been, the common interest of nations worldwide.

MINDFUL of the fact that issues relating to confrontation between vessels at sea and in port have been discussed by this Commission as well as other international fora including the International Maritime Organization.
RECOGNISING the fact that domestic and international concerns have been expressed concerning confrontation at sea and port relating to whaling and whale research activities.

SERIOUSLY CONCERNED that dangerous confrontations risk human life, property, and the order of maritime navigation, and may lead to grave accidents.

http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/re...tion2006.htm#2

Not only is Greenpeace using violent tactics but they are trying make Japan use violent tactics. They are using violent tactics to provoke Japan into answering Greenpeace in the same manner.

Thats what Hitler did too. And you support them. Fanatics.

[kame]

Originally Posted by Kyoto Returnee

Hopefully with all the international pressure, Australia and the US included, we will put a stop to this

Good luck with that. US will never risk its relationship with Japan on just a thousand whales. It's just not worth it. Australia may jump ahead and regret its consequences.

[centrajapan]

Please explain again. Chi.

By the looks of things US is siding more and more with Japan n the whaling issue as they probably will vote in favour of Japan resuming a commercial hunt. The African countries will start joining IWC and they too are in favour of a sustainable hunt of a natural renewable resources.

The only thing Australia and Greenpeace can do is to use violent tactics in return.

[Chi65]

No, I did at length, but you keep on ignoring and using violence
in words and twisting meanings into the opposite.
Maybe you should read the forum rules?

[centrajapan]

Why do you support violence? You said you support Greenpeace. Please explain.

[Chi65]

I do not support violence at all, thats why I now support them.
And if you just read back, you know why.