Discrimination/racism in Japan vs non-Japan

[Astroboy]

Because of advice from Dutchbaka, I would like to start this thread....

In order to study something, multilateral approach must be essential for better understanding. This is very scientific approach indeed.

Today we see many racism in the world, and we must fight with racism. However, racism is often found in the countries where the people claim anti-racism against other countries.

Any comments about racism/discrimination in Japan vs non-Japan countries are welcomed.

eg. I had a look at racism in XXX and I also experienced the same racism in Japan, or I know racism in XXX but I don't see it in Japan. Then we can see more behind the scene.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Astroboy]

Violence at Cronulla Beach as 5000 people gather
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Violence..._people_gather

NSW Deputy Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione says police believed neo-Nazi and white nationalist groups were among the crowd. "That in fact is something that we're following up," he told the Nine network.

Skinheads wearing boots, braces and neo-Nazi emblems were among the protestors. Three far-right organisations: "Australia First Party", "Patriotic Youth League (PYL) and the Newcastle-based "Blood and Honour" - all handed out pamphlets. PYL describes itself as a "radical nationalist" group with links to the German-based skinhead group Volksfront, British Nationalist Party and the New Zealand National Front.

I thought that Australia is a peaceful country of kangroos & koalas, but the reality is not look like, while I don't see NEO-NAZI & their racial conflict in Japan. WHY did Asutralian become such racists? or always racist?

[Astroboy]

Aboriginal Holocaust

http://aboriginalrights.suite101.com...caust_document

This text from a 19th century Queensland newpaper needs no comment. The blatantly racist, genocidal ideology speaks for itself. But has anything changed? ....

I thought "Holocaust" was a name of TV program about Jewish in Europe, but Australians have longer tradition of holocaust. Probably history of Australia must be a history of Holocaust against local Aboligines. I am more interested in Australian mentality --- They are heavily against Japanese whaling, telling Whale is intelligent & cute, but they send Aboligines into transparent cages with bloody history.

Maybe their mentality is like this: Whale is Better than Aboligines. Killing Whales is not allowed but Killing XXX may be OK.

Very confused.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

Violence at Cronulla Beach as 5000 people gather
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Violence..._people_gather

I thought that Australia is a peaceful country of kangroos & koalas, but the reality is not look like, while I don't see NEO-NAZI & their racial conflict in Japan. WHY did Asutralian become such racists? or always racist?

Hello again Astroboy:

It would appear that you have a thing with Australian's discrminating and being racist's.

I wasn't in Australia at the time of the Cronulla Riots.

Cronulla is a coastal suburbs South of Sydney.

My parents have good friends that live in a Southern suburb named Blakehurst.

I may add, these friends are of Greek Descent, and my parents coming from the UK, met this couple on the cruise liner, the Canberra when they migrated to Australia.

These riots, shocked all residents of nearby Southern Suburbs and were sprked by some Lebanese Yankees/Yahoos/Yobos.

It was Islam/Muslim orientated, as neraby is a suburb named Lakemba which has a large Mosque and Muslim community.

I believe a lot of the hatred stems from world affairs then and now, although I really cannot justify your constant accusations of Australia being racists, simply because of these riots.

Australia is a large country. This small town is like a needle in a haystack in Australia.

If you go to Darwin in the Northern Territory, you will see it is dominated by many Asian and Island cultures. You would not survive their if you were a racist.

Many suburbs and towns in Australia are very ethnicly different, so to say that Australia is racist is simply ridiculous.

To be a racist in Australia would mean that you would have a very hard time living here as it just would not work due to our country being so culturally diverse and spread out.

The entire country was built on migrants from China and Europe.

Of course, all these people within Australia, may have their own racist attitude, although it is up to each individual to justify it.

Like I said, racism in Australia is against the law. Are you getting my comments as I have mentioned this previously to you but you continue to fail to respond.

Discrimination is something entirely different to racism in many ways.

I believe manyt people dicriminate in some way, shape or form, although it's done in a discreet, personal and quite manner. It generally leads more towards favouritism over here.

Once again, discrimination is against the law within Australia, that's not to say that some people do not discriminate.

As for aboriginies, they are looked after. They have free housing, hostels, money, education, healthcare, their own police, social workers, counsellors, land, tourism, etc.

I see aboriginies all around me everyday where I live. They are all happy, fine, all is good, no problems.

On my bike ride back from the convenience store a few days ago, the bag containing my milk was breaking and going to fall of my bicycle handlebar.

I rode past a house, and noticed a happy aboriginal family playing in the front garden. I approached, said g'day, and politely asked for a shopping bag to update the breaking one containing the milk.

We had a good yarn and laugh, and all was good.. Did not matter who or what they were, they were nice people..

Like I said, I had never experienced racism and discrimination on a personal level until I lived in Japan.

I lived in Kyot which is very proud and conservative, so IO guess I experienced more than let's say Tokyo, which I have no experience with.

I think you will find if you get into Japanese law, you will find that non Japanese in Japan would have a vwery hard time winning legal cases as like I said, discrimination in Japan is rife, it's open, exposed, it's not a secret..

You seem quite young to me and I am guessing you may be very naive and do not undertsand the truth, simply becuase you do not want to..

[tokapi]

Originally Posted by Kyoto Returnee

Like I said, I had never experienced racism and discrimination on a personal level until I lived in Japan.

Would you elaborate further,detail some racially-motivated incidents you experienced over there.

[Astroboy]

Kyotoreturnee: Thank you for your advice

Australia is a large country. This small town is like a needle in a haystack in Australia..... so to say that Australia is racist is simply ridiculous.

You better keep this words in your mind when you hear/experience racism/discrimination in Japan. In short, it is dangerous to generalize.

You seem quite young to me and I am guessing you may be very naive and do not undertsand the truth, simply becuase you do not want to..

Same to you. If you don't want to see ...., you can view that all is fine in your country.

Sleep well.

[centrajapan]

Its hard to experience racism if you are say white in Australia. I am not sure what your race is but... If you are a white Norwegian chances are probably not that high that you will experience much racism in Norway. It would be irnoic to tell a white Norwegian. Oi white boy. Go home. I am home. You go home.

But if you come from a Middle Eastern or Japanese decent chances are higher to face discrimination in Norway. Japan is still a very homogenous country and the majorit of them want to keep it that way. Where as in Europe people are encouraged to think multi culturalism is a good thing. There are now 3rd generations Norwegians with Middle Eastern ethnicity. They are Norwegian more or less. I regard them as Norwegians. From time to time I get some hillbilly speaking to me in English in Norway and I reply in Norwegian and then they look embarassed. IN Japan I got that too. They would speak English to me and Id answer in Japanese and they would say why do you speak so good Japanese? Well I am Japanese. Thats just one of those things that at times irks me a little.

[Astroboy]

centraljapan: Thanks for your interesting experience.

Except Tokyo and tourists in Kyoto or similars, foreigners are still rare in Japan. People don't expect foreigners (or foreign-looking persons) to speak Japanese. So speaking in poor English and replying in good Japanese often happens. And People may look at those foreigners with much curiosity. Well .... sometimes must be annoying, but cannot be helped.

Please enjoy your life in Japan rather than exploiting racism.

[Sarapva]

In the U.S. discrimination is illegal too, though we have come a long way in a short time. There also a mixture of original nationalities here, but I think most of the people who used to be discriminated against (and still are in some places) are African-Americans. Schools and public places were segregated until only the 1960s. When I was in school, it was alongside whites, blacks, Asians, etc.

I'm "white" I guess, but I had good friends in school who were black. My parents' next door neighbors are a really nice black family - you couldn't ask for better neighbors than they are. Inter-racial couples and marriages are more and more common these days.

I think some of the worst discrimination in the U.S. has been toward Native Americans. They lost their land and now most live on reservations in different places around the U.S. Things still aren't equal with them.

[centrajapan]

Americans, Australians like to exploit racism in Japan because they like to project their history to make themselves feel better.

[Goldiegirl]

Wow, I guess you haven't read my post that say there is definitely racism and segregation in the USA. To me it's natural, just like when I get stared at in Japan or people move away from me on the train. I am different, there aren't that many different looking people in Japan overall. It's not legal in the USA to discriminate against people based on there race, creed, sex, age, or really anything else. I do believe in Japan they can post job openings with age limits? The "No Foreigners signs" not acceptable or legal in the USA. Not renting apartments to foreigners not legal in the USA. My Japanese husband, without residency here in the USA was able to rent an apartment, get a cell phone and house phone, turn on the gas and electricity, without having to have a cosigner or having an American citizen vouch for him. I wouldn't be able to do the same in Japan. As for the history of the USA my family wasn't in the USA until the 1920's, so they weren't a part of the history. And really if you knew Americans better, most don't even know HISTORY! They can't tell you what day the 4th of July stands for, they can't even pick their country out on a map. You sure do give them credit for being smart!

[hideway]

My-flag-is-better-yours boy strikes again.

Just to state something that seems to confuse some people. When someone is against something, like racism, it really doesn't matter if in his country the thing that someone is against exists or not.

[centrajapan]

I think racism is different from place to place. In some places some things can be regarded as racism while in other places the same topic will not be regarded as racism.

Not that I am the most political correct person on this planet and I am very opinonated. But when foreigners keep on ranting on about Japan this and that this and that. Then there comes a limit and as a defense mechanism you start to attack their country. I should have said some Americans and some Australians and not Americans and Australians.

Everyone sees things differently and from their angle. What is true for them does not have to be true for others. From my perspective. Americans seem to be much more sensitive towards their flag than the Japanese or Europeans. They also take their national anthem much more serious than others. It seems sacred where as others just look at their flag as a piece of cloth.

If anyone has seen English tabloid news paper and their football reporting. For anyone who isnt English it is quite shocking. When England play Germany there are these head lines stating. We beat you in 2 world wars and now we beat you again. If I was German not sure if I would like it.

Due to the history of Jews in Europe it is much more tabboo to criticise Jews than Muslims for instance in Norway. Then last year some Scandinavian drew a carricature of the Prohet and Muslims in Scandinavia and around the world got very upset. This was the classic example of freedom of speech versus blasphemy/racism. It sure did not unite the people but rather polarised the people. I could see that incident from two different angles.

In Europe each year people mark the Chrystal Nights. To honor the Holocaust victims but then when someone started waving the Israeli flag there broke out riots.

Its quite tricky. Then I think some people are more proud of their nationality than other people and I think some nationalities are more proud of their nationality than others. Americans and Australians seem to be very proud of their country from my perspective where as Germans seem to be more laid back about their nationality than both English and Scandinavians.

Someone was telling me that the reason why Canadians have their flag on their back pack when traveling is not to tell everyone that they are Canadian but rather to tell everyone that they are not American. Is this ture?

In Japan if I said I was Norwegian at times people would start to speak German. I thoght to myself what an ignorant ****. I got this from time to time by not Japanese but other westerners. And then I also got. Where are you from and Id say Norway and they would say you are the funniest Norwegian I have ever met. Or but you are not even white. Id be like. hmmm. while smiling on the outside.

[MadamePapillon]

I wonder if you really had to start a whole new thread with the sole purpose of pointing out the racist problems of western countries (specifically Australia) in an effort to make Japan seem better.

There are plenty of threads that have discussed the subject inside and out, maybe you could have revived one of them or even have put a different spin on the subject. Maybe something pointing out the positives of how far each country has come in dealing with rasicm and how far left you think they have to go.

As much racism as there is, you can't deny many countries have improved vastly in a very short time in their efforts to put aside differences and make all races feel welcome. There's room for improvement yes, but to focus on the actions of a idiotic group of neo-nazis is degrading the success of the country as a whole in accepting people of differing races and cultures.


EDIT:

Someone was telling me that the reason why Canadians have their flag on their back pack when traveling is not to tell everyone that they are Canadian but rather to tell everyone that they are not American. Is this ture?

It's partially true, there are times when Canadians are embarassed to be associated with America so we feel the need to distinguish. Also, Americans often wear the Canadian flag when going abroad to avoid being hassled for being American.
But people sometimes just wear the flag to let people know they are Canadian. You wont often find any canadian that isn't proud of their country and don't want people to know where they are from (even immigrants have this attitude after living here for awhile and have said so to me).
You'll often see people wearing the Canadian flag here....I've seen people getting drunk and singing the national anthem on the skytrain, it wasn't long before everyone was laughing and singing along....good times XD

[centrajapan]

I wonder if you really had to start a whole new thread with the sole purpose of pointing out the racist problems of western countries (specifically Australia) in an effort to make Japan seem better.

Have you seen how much Kyoto Ret critises Japan?

The race ritos in Australia was not just about these gangs. The reason why they became gangs in the first place was that white Australians did not give them the respect they dersved and the Lebanese took that respect into their own hands. And it just escalated and then the bubble bursted. The Lebanese Australians felt alienated from society.

[Chi65]

Hehe, as for Germans in Japan, we often have a kind of bonus, even if we did not always had good times with Japan, (yet I read here lately, that even if imprisoned, the germans were handled with extra care).
And spare me the details of the "best" times during our sidings under Hitler in this thread..
But in general, Germans seem to be welcome, as long as we are not seen as coming from the US at first hand. Our german story with Japan is long and mostly good. That helped a lot, I suppose.
Since I additionally have a certain outer resemblance with some filmstars (not half as beautifull, but the type seems to appeal, and I was often told, whom they had in mind, and it was the same ones every time), this never gave me any feelings of discriminations over there, in contrary.
Since I have mainly foreign friends myself (out of sheer curiosity) and many asian ones amongst them (they reacted in the same way in China and Korea, by the way), I am additionally very familiar with their behaviour and tend to just let them come by themselves, which they happily do. Any loud or broad actions are not my thing anyhow, but I love to laugh and join in, when asked to.
I have as many friends in Japan, that have lots of foreign friends, but those are mainly artists. . .

This may nevertheless not be the norm, but I visited Japan 5 times and made only and only good experiences myself.

(the my flag is better-one here is already known, thus I do not feel to discuss Germans with him, he is once more so much off the road and generalising in that relation, that it only makes me laugh. . .)

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by hideway

My-flag-is-better-yours boy strikes again.
Just to state something that seems to confuse some people. When someone is against something, like racism, it really doesn't matter if in his country the thing that someone is against exists or not.

I don't deny you.

[Chi65]

Ok, if you meant Astroboy, I meant someone else. . .

[Astroboy]

From my experiences in Europe, North America and Asian countries, I always think why our language - Japanese - does not have enough words for bashing others or insulting others comparing to other launguages.

When I was a kid, I was a big fun of Hollywood movies, and it was good experience to learn "American" English somewhat. However, the words acters/actress use were very limited to so-called dirty words. Typically "F**", "Mother F**", "Dam it" "Sh*t", "Bull S**" more and more.
So I thought USA must be an interesting country.

On the other hand, when I look at Japanese language, dirty words are rare. Probably "Baka" or "Aho" (Stupid) only. It is very difficult for us to translate dirty English words into Japanese because we don't have proper equivalent in Japanese.

I am not linguistic scholar. So maybe I am wrong, but this is one of Japanese characteristics. i.e. Being not Good at Bashing Others/Discrimination.

What do you think?

[Glenski]

Today, 3:11, centrajapan wrote:

Americans, Australians like to exploit racism in Japan because they like to project their history to make themselves feel better.

Yesterday, 11:30, centrajapan wrote:

Its different US and Japan. Ill stop this Japan rules US sucks talk. http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5063&page=4

Stick to one side, will you?

Goldiegirl wrote:

It's not legal in the USA to discriminate against people based on there race, creed, sex, age, or really anything else. I do believe in Japan they can post job openings with age limits?

This may not be true anymore. One major site advertising for university positions has stopped that aspect of ads.

The "No Foreigners signs" not acceptable or legal in the USA.

Same here, but they are still up.

Not renting apartments to foreigners not legal in the USA. My Japanese husband, without residency here in the USA was able to rent an apartment, get a cell phone and house phone, turn on the gas and electricity, without having to have a cosigner or having an American citizen vouch for him. I wouldn't be able to do the same in Japan.

Sure you can. It's not easy, but human rights advocates have made it happen, and the practice is growing.

[Goldiegirl]

My husband didn't a human rites advocate to get what he needed. It may not be legal, but if those things are allowed and not enforced saying they are illegal really means nothing!

[Chi65]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

From my experiences in Europe, North America and Asian countries, I always think why our language - Japanese - does not have enough words for bashing others or insulting others comparing to other launguages.
When I was a kid, I was a big fun of Hollywood movies, and it was good experience to learn "American" English somewhat. However, the words acters/actress use were very limited to so-called dirty words. Typically "F**", "Mother F**", "Dam it" "Sh*t", "Bull S**" more and more.
So I thought USA must be an interesting country.
On the other hand, when I look at Japanese language, dirty words are rare. Probably "Baka" or "Aho" (Stupid) only. It is very difficult for us to translate dirty English words into Japanese because we don't have proper equivalent in Japanese.
I am not linguistic scholar. So maybe I am wrong, but this is one of Japanese characteristics. i.e. Being not Good at Bashing Others/Discrimination.
What do you think?

Well, thats an interesting aspect indeed.
And additionallly, if someone like me comes to Japan, just smiles and cannot speak Japanese very well, but also does not use such american bashings in general, I will be handled with friendly respect. I see. . .another point.
But I felt so good in this and never needed any offence or defence, and that again speaks at least (if not more) as much for the Japanese, that I met, I think.

But I learned something in Korea first, amongst my friends there:
many games go via helping each other up in contrary to westerners (even if artists), who did not understand this and continued with their degrading games and also tried them on me when I was successfully cooperating with the Koreans. Well, the Koreans simply went on, so did I, and we managed.

This I also expected in Japan, it was not exactly the same, but almost in a way and more so in other ways even (it included respect for my own privacy, which was a bit of a problem in Korea and even more so in China).
I don't mind being watched, visibly or not, but if immediate respectfull help comes without asking, when I am really sick or in trouble, I am very thankfull of course. And Japan was extremely "helpfull" on that level, also when I really needed to be alone, for which I am very thankfull, still.
You feel handled like a human, not just like a foreign curiosity then.
Or not at all, if there was an aversion or understandable unsure feeling maybe, but never degrading.

No words for this? Could be. But anyhow, thanks, it works.

[MadamePapillon]

Originally Posted by Astroboy

From my experiences in Europe, North America and Asian countries, I always think why our language - Japanese - does not have enough words for bashing others or insulting others comparing to other launguages.
When I was a kid, I was a big fun of Hollywood movies, and it was good experience to learn "American" English somewhat. However, the words acters/actress use were very limited to so-called dirty words. Typically "F**", "Mother F**", "Dam it" "Sh*t", "Bull S**" more and more.
So I thought USA must be an interesting country.
On the other hand, when I look at Japanese language, dirty words are rare. Probably "Baka" or "Aho" (Stupid) only. It is very difficult for us to translate dirty English words into Japanese because we don't have proper equivalent in Japanese.
I am not linguistic scholar. So maybe I am wrong, but this is one of Japanese characteristics. i.e. Being not Good at Bashing Others/Discrimination.
What do you think?

Well, this could also be because English is a melding of several different languages so we have a greater vocabulary. Maybe Japan is just more polite than us in not saying it to your face but that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it.
Japan has different behavioral requirements than us. To maintain harmony and not rock the boat. I've never been to Japan but I don't think it would be acceptable to tell someone to f**k off and then start fighting. Not that it's acceptable here but...sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
Personally, if someone is in my face I wont hesitate to start throwing out the 'naughty' words. I've been known to punch people in the face when they get on my last nerve...but hey, at least I'm not a bullsh*ter.
It's just cultural differences. I don't believe the Japanese are any less discrimanitory than the rest of the modern world simply because you don't have swear words. You just don't air your views in public like we do...well, except with the 'no foreigner signs', I guess Maybe you just go about it differently.


Here's some possible origins of the F-Word
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/38520

[Astroboy]

Dirty words are not exclusve feature of English. Maybe Russian is worse. Plus Chinese language may be more or less. I also learned that Dutch language includes a series of dirty words.

I don't know Arabic, Hindi, Spanish, German, etc. But I imagine they will be more or less the same.

In short, except Japanese language, All may be similar. Thus, they are all good at bashing/discriminating each others, while Japanese are left in open-mouthed amazement.

Does this make sense?

[Goldiegirl]

I think any word can be made foul, it depends on how you use it. So maybe you don't have exactly foul words, but they can be spoken with a foul mouth and intentions.