Whaling is Not A Conservation Issue according to Australians

[centrajapan]

This story just shows how hypocritical Australia’s stance on whaling really is:

Australian animal protection groups questioned on Monday a new government guide for the humane killing of kangaroos which recommends "forcefully swinging" the heads of young animals against a vehicle tow bar.

A proposed code of conduct for shooting young kangaroos, called joeys, and smaller wallabies released by the Department of Environment also recommended a single close-range shotgun blast.

"These changes are basically saying the federal government believes it’s okay to blast a defenseless joey to bits with a shotgun," Pat O’Brien, President of the Wildlife Protection Association, told local newspapers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scien...D8247920080107

A further hit to the anti-whaling lobby came from an unlikely source Australian of the Year Tim Flannery:

ENVIRONMENTALIST and 2007 Australian of the Year Tim Flannery has declared his support for the hugely unpopular Japanese whaling program.

As Australia prepares to monitor the whaling fleet in Antarctica amid rising diplomatic tensions with Japan, Professor Flannery says there is nothing unsustainable about its annual cull of up to 1000 whales - particularly the common minke whale.

"In terms of sustainability, you can’t be sure that the Japanese whaling is entirely unsustainable," Professor Flannery told The Daily Telegraph. "It’s hard to imagine that the whaling would lead to a new decline in population.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001021,00.html


The anti-whaling lobby has been spreading the disinformation that the Japanese were going to hunt whales to extinction even though the Minke whale which they are authorized to hunt 935 of is not endangered. Neither is the hunting of 50 Fin whales going to impact its population as well. In fact both whales species numbers continue to grow and as Tim Flannery says are sustainable. So this completely destroys the other anti-whaling argument I hear over and over again that Japanese whaling effects the Australian whale watching industry which is now obviously not true.

The whaling issue has nothing to do with the protecting the environment and conservation as the anti-whaling people are trying to lead people to believe. This whole issue is that these people find whales cute and intelligent and feel that there lives are worth more than other animals. If they would just come out and say that I would have more respect for their argument instead of hiding behind the phony environmental angle.

The fact of the matter is that they need to hide behind the environmental angle because protecting animals because they are cute and smart isn’t likely to mobilize people against whaling. However, when you pass propaganda that the Japanese are hunting whales to extinction, torturing them, violating Australian territorial waters, and going to wipe out the Australian whale watching industry then that will mobilize people even though it is all rubbish.

The actions of the anti-whale lobby may have mobilized people in Australia but it has now also mobilized people in Japan which whaling has now become an issue of nationalism. Additionally the Japanese government has now included whale meat in school lunches in show of solidarity with the whalers. If the anti-whaling people had actually approached this issue in a responsible and mature manner, the eating of whale meat probably would have naturally died off in Japan because the older people that grew up eating it would eventually age and pass away over the years. Now due to the anti-whale people, a whole new generation of Japanese children will now grow up eating whale meat.

Remember this all happening not because of environmental reasons, but because whales are cute and smart. Kangaroos are cute but I guess they are just not smart enough for these people.

http://dailyboomerang.com/2008/01/12...rvation-issue/

[Kyoto Returnee]

I'm still at a loss Centrajapan why on earth you keep bringing up Kangaroos.

Totally Irrelevant to whales...

Could it possibly be that you are trying to justify the slaughter of the oceans whales because some in Australia inhumanely kill kangaroos?

Nothing to do with the whale issue as far as I can see..

I seriously think you need to druft away from You Tube, and all the other sites you seem to keep copying and pasting..

[centrajapan]

I unlike you value all animals equal. Its not me btw who is pointing out the double morals. Its open minded Australians who are saying it.

[Rose Selavey]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

I unlike you value all animals equal. Its not me btw who is pointing out the double morals. Its open minded Australians who are saying it.

Yes it is! Centrajapan you are using the fact that Kangaroos being slaughtered in Australia is a cause for the slaughter of whales. Australians do not have double standards as you put it, the environmentally aware and those which care for all animals are against ANY type of slaughter. And has I have said before, the more people become aware of what is happening in other countries then all the better for the environment. may I ask a question since you are so keen to attack vegetarians and animal rights activates, what is your BMI, and where does your meat come from?

[centrajapan]

I am as I have alreay stated before. I am illustrating the hypocrasy of the Australian government. It is worse to kill kamgaroos for fun than whales for food.

Please follow the link. Its Australian. Good to see that there are some rational Aussies.

[Chi65]

The point is not who is worse, but why at all. . .and there you better start where you are.
And others where they are.

Even WITHOUT Australians the situation in itself would be the same and has been there before the Australians.
Face own responsibility first finally.

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by Rose Selavey

... the environmentally aware and those which care for all animals are against ANY type of slaughter. And has I have said before, the more people become aware of what is happening in other countries then all the better for the environment.

That's right! We all have the right to criticize and question what other countries are doing - thank goodness, because we live in free countries for the most part (I know that can be argued, but let's not do that here - those are arguments for other threads). And it does help a country to know what other countries think. I'm sure Australia has plenty of criticism within it from animal rights groups.

But I wonder whether there is criticism of Japan's whaling within Japan? Shouldn't people feel free enough to criticize their government and other things within the country?

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

I found such a video in a net.
I cannot believe contents of this video.
Racist Australia and Japanese whaling Vol.1 (ver.1.0)
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=e8lvep0-Ii0

A JAPANESE pro-whaling video condemning Australia as a racist nation using images of the infamous Cronulla riots has been launched onYouTube
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...05-421,00.html

[centrajapan]

the video makes a good point about dingos being more endangered than humpback whales. and the treatment they give to kangaroos. so it is odd that they have so much higher thoughts about whales than for instance the kangaroos or dingos.

[Kyoto Returnee]

I am trying not to play into Centrajapan's hands but here we go:

Dingoes are a protected species, Kangaroos have to be controlled due to over population and damage to the environment.

Their are strict measures in place for the humane culling of Kangaroos and this is for their own good so the younger can survive.

Their was a time where the Kangaroos were burnt, then we realized that Japanese tourists would eat them along with crocodiles, also taking into account Mad Cow diseases and a large overseas export market, not to mention the meat being much healthier than beef, or so the experts say.

Any in-humane killing of Kanagaroos in Australia IS illegal.

I still cannot see what this has to do with the slaughter and killing of endangered whale species in international waters, which so many countries are against, even more so for "Scientific Purposes".

Have you seen the dolphin slaughter video?

That is definitely something I wouldn't show my kids.

[centrajapan]

the number of whales japan wants to hunt has no impact on the stocks as a whole. despite japan hunting whales the stocks increase each year. so as far as the sustainable argument goes the hunt is sustainable. the whaling debate has become more symbolic.

the reason why it is called scientific is because japan goes down there and calculates how many whales they can hunt. thats what scientific about it. iwc is a whaling organization. countries are bound by an agreement to work towards the best interest of whaling according to scientific data. including australia.

each hunt and each kill of the animal is registered. everything from the time of the kill, if the whale is a male, female etc. in comparison there are no exact numbers of kills in australia of kangaroos. just broad estimates.

dingos are critically endangered but yet they are being killed and many get stuck in fences and traps.

the australian animals are killed due to pest management. in other words they are regarded as pests.

i dont think it is fair of australia to stop japan killing whales for food while they at home turf do not have such a good track record of animals.

apart from that. i would like to visit australia. it seems like a nice country.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

Originally Posted by Kyoto Returnee

Dingoes are a protected species, Kangaroos have to be controlled due to over population and damage to the environment.

It is the too selfish logic.
A method to save life of a kangaroo,
Australian population increase?
An emigrant is more necessary from China and Korea.


If your family moved to Japan ,
A kangaroo is killed?
Head count the same as your family.

[kame]

From the first article:

Former lawmaker and conservationist Richard Jones said the code could backfire on the government in its campaign against Japanese Antarctic whaling, despite the fact kangaroos are not internationally protected like whales.

"We can hardly take the high moral ground on animal welfare and whale conservation when the government is prepared to condone barbaric practices regarding our native wildlife," Jones told the Canberra Times newspaper.

The Reuters article is relevant to whaling.

If you are really against slaughter (of whales or kangaroos) as a principle, you should catch a million kangaroos and spay/neuter them like you would with stray cats. That's more humane, isn't it? No, it's too expensive to birth control kangaroos so we kill them by blowing their heads off.

You can't argue morals when you are doing that.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima

An emigrant is more necessary from China and Korea.

And Japan . . . . . . . .

[Kyoto Returnee]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

apart from that. i would like to visit australia. it seems like a nice country.

It's a popular part of the world!

You can see FULL breed Dingoes around Fraser Island. Do a search for scenery and photos. beautiful place.

Unfortunately, full bred Dingoes are breeding at a rapid pace with wild dogs.

These are dogs that people have let go free in the bush and they have turned wild and in turn have become very dangerous for the human type of animal that may venture to close.

It's a fine line between Kangaroos, tourists, Dingoes, farmers and fences..

[centrajapan]

Dingos are probably like wolves. We got wolves in Norway but the sheep farmers kill them because they are regarded as pests by sheep farmers .

[Rose Selavey]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

the number of whales japan wants to hunt has no impact on the stocks as a whole.

Please provide the science for this statment. Japanese whaling has no science to it, their original reasons of why kill to the whales has gone from 'data' to simply a census, whale counting.

[centrajapan]

Tim Flannery the Australian of the year said an Australian who are known to be the most racist anti whalers on this planet said that the Japanese hunt pose no threat and is sustainabnle.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

Tim Flannery the Australian of the year said an Australian who are known to be the most racist anti whalers on this planet said that the Japanese hunt pose no threat and is sustainabnle.

Does who know that he's correct?

[centrajapan]

Rose asked me for scientific arguments. I gave her the Australian of the year. If he is not correct then Australia is not correct.

[Chi65]

Rubbish. . . . .. . .

[Rose Selavey]

Time Flannery is not a whale expert, his comments where taken out of context, the next line of his statment is we have more important things to worry about as far as Global Warming is concerned and the need to address climate change. He regrets saying it, but then again Tims main aim as a scientist is too bring scientific issues to the public forum, so a bit of controversy never hurt. The IWC even states re the population size of the Southern Hemisphere Minke whale: The Commission is unable to to provide reliable estimates at the present time. A major review is underway by the Scientific Committee.

[akita]

I hope I'll not offend anyone here. It seams this whaling matter brigs all the time the race problem front. It may sound naive but killing no matter what wild animal that don' t pose you an immediate danger such as killing your family or something like that wrong? You don't protect a specie or another just because it's cute but because is part of nature and killing a part of that nature it's destroying the whole equilibrium. An example of interfering in nature was given below with dingos. It will not be necessary to kill them if humans would act more rationally and not live behind dogs. In the end is all about as not animals.

i don't think that should be a problem of race here like who is more evil. Should I hate Great Britain because some of English people like to hunt fox? Should I hate Koreans because some of them like to eat dogs but others like them as pets? We all have a law that might be consider strange for others or even offensive.

What I don't understand is why is necessary to hunt weals or kangaroos in the first place? Neather of those countries need more food to survive or more resources. What is that a weal can give you and you can't replace with something similar? If you need to eat fish there are fish farms so there is no need to go in the Ocean. As for kangaroos I think there is enough meat around without hunting a wild animal.

[Rose Selavey]

I think you are right akita, it is not necessary to kill either whales or Kangaroos for meat. It is time we took a new approach to food, world wide, local in season and low impact would be best for as all.

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by akita

You don't protect a specie or another just because it's cute but because is part of nature and killing a part of that nature it's destroying the whole equilibrium.

Thanks, akita - I think this is the main argument against whaling. It's also the same for any other environmental destruction like cutting forests down to build on the land. Rose is right - we need to rethink all these things we're doing that only destroy the earth, and try to live with a "light footprint" with as little damage to the environment as possible.