Japanese people don't support whaling/Greenpeace studies whales

[Sarapva]

This is from Greenpeace:

An opinion poll carried out in Japan by the Nippon Research Centre, in June 2006, showed that 95 per cent of Japanese people never or rarely eat whale meat. More than two-thirds of Japanese do not support whaling on the high seas.

To prove that you don't need to kill whales for research, Greenpeace is collaborating with a team of scientists on the "Great Whale Trail" project.

Data from satellite tagging of whales, harmless skin biopsies and fluke identification has already yielded valuable information about the migration patterns of threatened humpback populations, without a single harpoon being fired.

We will display the location of the whaling fleet as it is tracked south by the Esperanza on the same map on which it is tracking humpback migration routes from their breeding grounds in New Caledonia and the Cook Islands.

"Japan's whalers are deceiving the Japanese public by painting the word "research" on their ships," said Junichi Sato, Greenpeace Japan Whales Project leader. "Real scientists don't need to kill whales to study them. This is commercial whaling poorly dressed up as science."

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campai...hale-defenders

[centrajapan]

Although I would not take Greenpeace propaganda at face value because they use the whaling lie to milk money from the ignorant masses.

If 99% of the people in Japan are against whaling then thats a better reason to let some people eat non endangered ecological whale. The whaling debate from shifting from an environmental debate has shifted into if eating whales is morally accepted or not. Ofcource it is morally accepted to eat whales. We humans also eat pigs, cows, sheep, goats.

As long as western imperialistic mind set is trying to impose their will by using non sceitntific emotional argumants then that will simply backfire.

A non event is becoming politicalised and that is due to western countries who have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people prefer to have a piece of whale on their plates while the same western people criticising are wearing leather sneakers. In English. This is called double morals.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Great news Sara:

I actually used to ask my students and friends in Japan about the topic and I didn't once here anyone who would eat whale so it used to amze me why on earth the JP government is so determined.....

Maybe it's all those old concrete minds in the government..

I once heard, the only qualification for becoming a minister in Japan is that one should be over the age of 70!

[kame]

Originally Posted by Sarapva

This is from Greenpeace:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campai...hale-defenders

I had never heard of "Nippon Research Center" and when I looked it
up, sure enough, it was a private marketing research company. As for the 2006 poll that Green Peace refers to, GP was a client who paid for
that "research".

I browsed through the original Japanese report on their site, and not surprisingly, the interpretations presented in the report are clearly written to please their client. Even then, their numbers show that 35% of the respondents are in favor of commercial whaling whereas 26% were against (the rest were undecided). Well they don't cite that number in their press release, do they?

[kame]

Originally Posted by Kyoto Returnee

Great news Sara:
I actually used to ask my students and friends in Japan about the topic and I didn't once here anyone who would eat whale so it used to amze me why on earth the JP government is so determined.....
Maybe it's all those old concrete minds in the government..
I once heard, the only qualification for becoming a minister in Japan is that one should be over the age of 70!

Many Japanese are often too shy to express their opinions that would result in a heated debate or confrontation. That tendency becomes even more apparent when they are dealing with foreigners and/or in a foreign language they aren't entirely comfortable with. And imagining from your die-hard anti-whaling attitude in this forum, I can easily imagine your students sensing which side you are on (even if not, it's much safer to assume that you are agains whaling of any kind) and wouldn't risk their impression as your students. If you haven't noticed this in Japanese with your past experience, you must be really insensitive (honne and tatemae).

I wouldn't argue with you about the old concrete minds in the Japanese government. But do you think that youtube video was put together by a 50 years old Japanese man? Do you think all those million immature comments were written by middle-aged-and-up Japanese?

If anything came out of this Australian mess, it really made a bad impression of Australia in Japan especially among the younger citizens.

[Chi65]

"Japan's whalers are deceiving the Japanese public by painting the word "research" on their ships," said Junichi Sato, Greenpeace Japan Whales Project leader. "Real scientists don't need to kill whales to study them. This is commercial whaling poorly dressed up as science."

Could have been from me. . .and one does not even need Greenpeace to find this out. . .
Truth hurts, right?

I had never heard of "Nippon Research Center" and when I looked it
up, sure enough, it was a private marketing research company. As for the 2006 poll that Green Peace refers to, GP was a client who paid for
that "research".

And who is the client for the so-called "research" now and acts and pays how?...

A scale has two sides. . .

[kame]

Originally Posted by Chi65

Could have been from me. . .and one does not even need Greenpeace to find this out. . .
Truth hurts, right?

I don't really care to argue whether the research whaling is scientifically necessary or not. It's true that you can get data that can only be obtained by killing whales such as eating habits, reproductive states, and exact age. It's also arguable if it's worth killing 1000 whales just to get those data.

The truth is that Japan wants to hunt whales to eat and some countries don't want them to. Research whaling was a political (and perfectly legal) compromise which had kept the balance for the last decade or so. At this point, I am pretty sure that Japan is not ready to give up whaling. If the naive Aussie administration is determine to break that political truce, they had better know what they are risking.

And who is the client for the so-called "research" now and acts and pays how?...
A scale has two sides. . .

It's no secret that the current whaling operation is govenment sponsored. So what? I just pointed out the fact that wasn't obvious from Sara's post.

[Chi65]

Originally Posted by kame

The truth is that Japan wants to hunt whales to eat and some countries don't want them to.

You mean, one of the truths. . .its not the main point at all, not even the most important one, and its already known worldwide.

[Kyoto Returnee]

Originally Posted by kame

Many Japanese are often too shy to express their opinions that would result in a heated debate or confrontation. That tendency becomes even more apparent when they are dealing with foreigners and/or in a foreign language they aren't entirely comfortable with. And imagining from your die-hard anti-whaling attitude in this forum, I can easily imagine your students sensing which side you are on (even if not, it's much safer to assume that you are agains whaling of any kind) and wouldn't risk their impression as your students. If you haven't noticed this in Japanese with your past experience, you must be really insensitive (honne and tatemae).

I wouldn't argue with you about the old concrete minds in the Japanese government. But do you think that youtube video was put together by a 50 years old Japanese man? Do you think all those million immature comments were written by middle-aged-and-up Japanese?

If anything came out of this Australian mess, it really made a bad impression of Australia in Japan especially among the younger citizens.

Half asleep here so ahh me suffice to say, It's true.
I have never once met a Japanese person who had eaten whale.

I should do some interviews and post it on You Tube. You guys I'm sure would love that LOL..

I'm surrounded everyday..

[Dogen Z]

According to a recent news article, there's still 6,000 tons of whalemeat left from last year's expedition. In that case, why is there a new expedition? Although I've seen a few whalemeat restaurants, I don't think Japanese are demanding to eat the stuff. It's not a tradition because Japan was largely vegetarian before William Perry forced open Japanese trade with the world. I was told Japanese were aghast that Americans ate cows!

So, this leaves the question of who is forcing the issue? If it's the government, who in the government? Most importantly, who is paying for the ships, the fuel, and the crew? As they tell young law students in law school, you have to follow the money.

[Chi65]

This may help you further:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Glenn_Inwood

In March 2003, Inwood was the organiser of a tour of Australasia by the former secretary of the International Whaling Commission, Dr Ray Gambell, who was urging an end to the moratorium on commercial whaling. The tour was sponsored by the World Council of Whalers. The New Zealand Herald identified Inwood as a PR consultant to the Treaty of Waitangi Fisheries Commission and Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR), the Japanese agency which is responsible for its commercial whaling operations. As of 2007 Inwood continues his work with the ICR.

In January 2006 the New Zealand Herald reported that Inwood also works for Te Ohu Kaimoana, "the sole voting shareholder in Aotearoa Fisheries (AFL), which owns a 50 per cent shareholding in Sealord. The other half-share in Sealord is owned by the Japanese company, Nissui, which is a major shareholder in Japan's Antarctic whaling fleet.

plus more to think abut:

http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35454

An interesting interview with Inwood can also be found here, particularly watch out what he refuses to answer:

http://www2b.abc.net.au/4corners/for...opic56103.shtm

plus how he describes the organisation:

Japan has been whaling for many many generations, and will continue to do so. What Australia should be doing, instead of ignoring its obligations under the Whaling Convention, is helping to bring about the return of commercial whaling. That's what the Whaling Convention is about. It was certinaly never signed to promote whale watching. If the Australian Government wanted to promote whale watching, it should leave the IWC to those who want to hunt and eat whales

Its mainly a commercial interest, if you follow all the way through, (mis-?)using the label old culture plus suggesting all Japan, like the government. . .
And additionally they are trying to justify any killing with "science"-labels.

The interest seems to be more and more clear. . .money, combined with some ego trippings, very dangerous fuels. . .

[kame]

It's not a mystery at all that "commercial" whaling is driven by profit. The goal of Japan is to resume commercial whaling. There's nothing wrong with pursuing profit by hunting or farming animals. Americans do it, Australians do it, pretty much the whole world does it. After all, we are all capitalist nations.

Just to be fair, money drives Green Peace as well. They need loads of money to send ships and to feed thousands of employees. Anti-whaling is a major money magnet. I never heard of them campaigning against kangaroo hunting or any other endangered terrestrial animals for that matter.

Commercial whaling means that the whaling companies would have to make money to keep whaling. If there is no demand for whale meat, they will cut back on whale hunt. The current situation is that Japan has to keep hunting in part to keep it on record, otherwise IWC is going to use it an excuse to totally ban whaling.

I agree that there is not a big market for whale meat in Japan, so if IWC let Japan catch whales commercially and have them stop using tax money to subsidize it, there may very well be fewerwhales hunted than now. After all, no company would want to keep a huge inventory of whale meat in energy-hogging deep freezers.

Commercial whaling can and should be done in a regulated way, and that is the best way to preserve the whales as a marine resource.

[kame]

Originally Posted by Ocean Dude

According to a recent news article, there's still 6,000 tons of whalemeat left from last year's expedition. In that case, why is there a new expedition? Although I've seen a few whalemeat restaurants, I don't think Japanese are demanding to eat the stuff. It's not a tradition because Japan was largely vegetarian before William Perry forced open Japanese trade with the world.

You are partly right. Demand for whale meat is low in Japan, but there still is. I sometimes see meats of baffalos, rabbits, emus, ostriches, deers, frogs, and other exotic (as food) animals in the market here in the US, but I hardly come across people who eat it. We don't ban hunting deers because there is little demand for its meat. As long as deers are not on the verge of extinction, we allow hunters to hunt them.

I was told Japanese were aghast that Americans ate cows!

Japanese did not have the habit of eating beef, but they never launched an war against (or any other form of protest) the Americans to save cows.

[Sarapva]

Originally Posted by kame

Just to be fair, money drives Green Peace as well. They need loads of money to send ships and to feed thousands of employees. Anti-whaling is a major money magnet. I never heard of them campaigning against kangaroo hunting or any other endangered terrestrial animals for that matter.

Money doesn't drive Greenpeace, but they need it to do what they do. They're not getting rich like others who are involved in commercial enterprises (like whaling):

Our Funding

Greenpeace does not solicit contributions from government or corporations, nor will we endorse political candidates. Our 250,000 members in the United States and 2.5 million members worldwide provide virtually all of our funding through individual contributions. Your support provides the backbone of our organization and is invaluable to our efforts.

Greenpeace is an environmental group, not an animal rights group, so the fact that they're involved in trying to stop whaling means that there's a threat to the oceans from whaling.

posted by Ocean Dude:

So, this leaves the question of who is forcing the issue? If it's the government, who in the government? Most importantly, who is paying for the ships, the fuel, and the crew? As they tell young law students in law school, you have to follow the money.

This is a good question. I think we need to do more research. You're probably on the right track, Chi - it sounds like Glenn Inwood is behind some financing for the Japanese whaling.

[Chi65]

Originally Posted by Sarapva

Money doesn't drive Greenpeace, but they need it to do what they do. They're not getting rich like others who are involved in commercial enterprises (like whaling):
Greenpeace is an environmental group, not an animal rights group, so the fact that they're involved in trying to stop whaling means that there's a threat to the oceans from whaling.
This is a good question. I think we need to do more research. You're probably on the right track, Chi - it sounds like Glenn Inwood is behind some financing for the Japanese whaling.

Definitely, absolutely. How can anyone doubt this anymore?

And as for the marketing aspects, the more trouble, the more press and then also more demand for the whale-meat from pro whalers.
I happen to also know professionally(twice even) about marketing for new markets and building up new(!) demands etc.etc.
Its naive to think, it all happens by itself or to make people think so..thats sand in the eyes once more. Same with the science label. Or the dolphin meat under whale name etc. All simple marketing strategies misusing "culture". (I feel very sorry for those Japanese, who are now hooked onto this, they may not even have started it?)
We call such people vultures. . .it fits very well here.

Thanks for the Greenpeace explanations, Sarapva, you put it absolutely right about the drive etc., it cannot be compared. Another sand in the eyes of the public, to even try so.

[Chi65]

Another good basket of questions, that I found somewhere:

I would also ask Mr. Inwood a simple question...

...what scientific interest can Japan possibly have in studying the economci viability of a waterway not its own?

What right do they think they have to treat an international / Australian territory as their own personal ATM?

Would the Japanese dare undertake such a "scientific" study in American waters? In British?

One could argue that whaling is legal inside the Japanese EEZ. There is absolutely no argument that can be made to justify commercial whaling (which JARPA is and its stated aim to be) in an international sanctuary.

Also related to my point somewhere else, what makes them think, the whales belong to them and nobody else has a right to step in??

[butakun]

This is an interesting poll. I wondered how they got these figures so I checked the original poll. I imagine it's the response to Q17 that lead to this two-thirds figure. Using the same data, I can also conclude more than two-thirds support whaling. From the response to Q18, I can also say more Japanese support resuming commercial whaling than against. This even from the obviously misleading series of questions, I particularly like Q10.
Personally I've never eaten whale meat and I couldn't care less. But the kind of anti-whaling argument I see in the media is definitely radicalizing pro-whaling Japanese.

(I don't have enough posts so I can't post the link to the original survey)

[Chi65]

Originally Posted by butakun

Personally I've never eaten whale meat and I couldn't care less. But the kind of anti-whaling argument I see in the media is definitely radicalizing pro-whaling Japanese.

And vice versa.. . . . .

[pipokun]

It is a good poll for casual anti-whaling activists to know it is quite rare for most Japanese to eat whale meat.
Some of them unreasonably believe that Japanese would eat whale meat everydays.

And the coverage would be much better if it would tell that anti-whaling countries are suffuring from obesity much worse than Japan.

[Chi65]

There is an interesting post from a Japanese in this older thread about eating whale meat and how and why some hate it:


http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75

[butakun]

But that cannot be a reason for banning whale meat.

[Chi65]

It was just a voice fron within Japan, one of many more, at least of that age with similar experiences.
It made me remember the taste of our Lebertran (Wale oil) from childhood times, baah, igittt, spit.

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hi pipokun,

I absolute believe you when you say that the Japanese people hardly eat any whale-meat at all. I also believe that most Japanese want this whaling to stop, just as most of us on earth want it to stop it.

As a complete layman, I see it more as an economic item. Maybe it is just a delicacy for the very rich and spoiled ones on earth.
We never see it in our supermarkets, now do we?

A very important point is: how do we kill the whales. As they are mammals, just like us they feel all the pain we cause them and that is really cruel.

[kame]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen

Hi pipokun,
I absolute believe you when you say that the Japanese people hardly eat any whale-meat at all. I also believe that most Japanese want this whaling to stop, just as most of us on earth want it to stop it.

Sorry to interrupt. The first sentence is true, but your second sentence is not. Even according to the Green Peace-sponsored poll discussed above, more Japanese people want commercial whaling to resume than to have the moratorium continue. Please look at the numbers.

As a complete layman, I see it more as an economic item. Maybe it is just a delicacy for the very rich and spoiled ones on earth.
We never see it in our supermarkets, now do we?

It is becoming some kind of a delicacy but it's not like caviar. They can be found in some specialty food markets that ordinary people can buy and cook at home if they wish. Again, being a delicacy doesn't mean that we should stop eating it.

[Goldiegirl]

My take on the Japanese and whaling is more that there is an apathy do anything pro or con. It is what it is. They follow more than they lead. Just my opinion, and it's not meant to be mean. I have just noticed that kind of personality is all....