Race, whales, and anti-Japanese propaganda

[hiltonjapan]

I know this topic has been hot recently, but I'm really starting to wonder if the claims of Australian racism against the Japanese are true, whether they know it themselves.
This article talk about the whaling protests in Australia:
w w w .hiltonjapan.com/2008/01/more-than-conservation-motivates.html

And these videos (maybe you've seen them) show a Japanese response:
w w w.hiltonjapan.com/2008/01/japanese-whaling-protests-must-see.html

I'm just wondering what the general consensus is (if there is one). And I'd like to hear from Australians: how do you feel about your country's actions against Japanese whaling? Proud, embarrassed, or indifferent?

[pipokun]

All I know is the two activists claiming they were kidnanapped love tempura and Australian skiers or snowboarders enjoy winter without any problems here.

*snip
If you want to hold an anti-G8 or anti-whaling demonstration in Hokkaido this year, some activists would be pleased to tell you how. But I highly recomend you should enjoy the best season of Hokkaido, instead.

[hiltonjapan]

Actually I support sustainable whaling..but that's not the point. The question is are Aussie's anti-Japan, or anti-whaling? I'd like to know what Australians think...

[kameron]

To think that a whole nation thinks the same way is racist in itself.

I love Japan, Japanese culture, Japanese people, the language, everything.

The amount of people who generally dislike Japan in Australia for whatever reason would be insignificantly low. Even those living in Darwin (bombed by the Japanese air-fighters in WW2) would have little or no hostility towards Japan.

I would have to say most Australians are anti-whaling, maybe this is because of the Australian media (we do have free press, so there's no government propaganda), i don't know. We are definately not anti-Japanese.

[brave_new_world]

For me, whaling is not acceptable.
Anti-whaling is not necessarily racist.
The purpose of anti-whaling is to protect whales since there are not many whales left on earth.

[Bucko]

I'm Australian, and while I dislike the idea of whaling I think that the way Australia is going about its anti-whaling cruscade is a bit wrong. I don't like the idea of meddling in other countries' affairs, and I think it's rather hypocritical considering the amount of cows, sheep, kangaroos etc are slaughtered in Australia each year (and I don't buy the "they're bred!/they're pests!" arguement - they're all sentient beings that feel pain). I'm not a vegetarian and I think the only people who have the right to protest against whaling are vegetarians.

These protesters are also showing a complete ignorance about the culture of the people they're protesting against in my opinion. In Japan saving face is extremely important. And if Australia goes goes about trying to embarrass Japan into stopping its whaling then Japan will only try harder and harder. So either the Australian protesters are culturally ignorant, or they just want to get their 15 mins of fame.

The image of Japan is still quite good among most Australians. Even my grandfather who fought on the front line against them doesn't *hate* them. Relations have been extremely good over the last 30 years and I don't see something like whaling changing that.

And for what it's worth, no, this has nothing to do with race. There are Asians everywhere in Australia, there's even an Asian women in the federal government (Penny Wong).

[caster51]

i think this is very important for the Japanese from history of disgrace


when japan concluded an unequal agreement at end of edo era by Military power of Western nations, To escape colonizing, Japan took the rule of Western. that is ,The law of the jungle


then Japan did same thing as western..
accoding to Helen Mears, Japan was a honor student of the Western civilization.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%...97%A5%E6%9C%AC

However, even if the same thing is done there by the racial discrimination,
ruler's Western Europe nations did not accept it.

The Australian might still have such an idea to others.
The Japanese is fighting by the same rule now.

The whale is poor ,the kangaroo is poor and every animal is poor.

And, China might be pleased.

http://jp.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B92CF80A794895B6

[Pepe]

Originally Posted by brave_new_world

For me, whaling is not acceptable.
Anti-whaling is not necessarily racist.
The purpose of anti-whaling is to protect whales since there are not many whales left on earth.

OK, that is a rather craptastic statement. Are all whales on the verge of extinction? The answer is most likely no.

However, even if one were to support current efforts to curtail Japanese whaling based on such an assumption, would not pursuing the enactment of a sustainable whaling policy be the better option, versus infringing on a nations sovereignty?

Back to the topic at hand - I was in Oz a couple of months ago and must say that, apart from an irrational love for Holdens (), I was never under the impression that Ozzies would be the type of people who would hold grudges or irrational beliefs about other nations people.

One should always remember: All generalisations are wrong.

[nice gaijin]

Originally Posted by Pepe

One should always remember: All generalisations are generalisations.

There, I fixed it for you.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bucko

I'm Australian, and while I dislike the idea of whaling I think that the way Australia is going about its anti-whaling cruscade is a bit wrong. I don't like the idea of meddling in other countries' affairs, and I think it's rather hypocritical considering the amount of cows, sheep, kangaroos etc are slaughtered in Australia each year (and I don't buy the "they're bred!/they're pests!" arguement - they're all sentient beings that feel pain). I'm not a vegetarian and I think the only people who have the right to protest against whaling are vegetarians.

These protesters are also showing a complete ignorance about the culture of the people they're protesting against in my opinion. In Japan saving face is extremely important. And if Australia goes goes about trying to embarrass Japan into stopping its whaling then Japan will only try harder and harder. So either the Australian protesters are culturally ignorant, or they just want to get their 15 mins of fame.

The image of Japan is still quite good among most Australians. Even my grandfather who fought on the front line against them doesn't *hate* them. Relations have been extremely good over the last 30 years and I don't see something like whaling changing that.

And for what it's worth, no, this has nothing to do with race. There are Asians everywhere in Australia, there's even an Asian women in the federal government (Penny Wong).

I agree, the fact of the matter is that a lot of this anti-whaling nations are highly hypocritical when viewed upon in the light of their animal killing habits.

I have to say though, with the kangaroo thing its basically a choice of either cull them or let them die through natures means like starving to death- a lot of people on the pro-cull kangaroo side of the debate see culling as a more humane form of killing the kangaroo's than letting them starve to death.

My only issue with the whaling thing is that none of the methods of killing whales at current are particularly humane- however if this was sorted out, then i would have a lot less issue with whaling in general as long as no endangered/threatened species of whales were killed etc .

Another thing that a lot of people do not take into consideration is that these animal rights activist organizations are making huge profits off their anti-whaling campaigns from all the donations they get from their media coverage. So its not an entirely innocent plight at times- there's a lot of money involved too, although few would probably be willing to openly admit this.

As long as the Japanese use humane methods of slaughter to kill their whales and hunt them in a responsible manner (for example do not over-hunt them) and don't hunt endangered/threatened species of whales, then i think we should just butt-out of Japan's business- we not right to think that we can just barge in and interfere in Japan's affairs whenever we want to. So much of this whaling business has been treated in such a disrespectful and biased way, its not going to do anything good for relations or sincere productive progress.

[MadamePapillon]

The fact that the whaling debate now is now riddled with politics and racist accusations just shows that this whole issue has been blown waaaay out of proportion.

The original reason for all this was that Japan was hunting whales while other countries (more specifically, the environmentalists) thought that whales should be protected because of ethical/ environmental issues. The intent wasn't racist, after all, these people go after the kangaroo killings of Australia, the seal killings of Canada ect, any place they see what could be considered the unethical killings or treatment of animals...Japan was just one of a long list off offenders. For some reason or another Japan took this as a personal attack and a matter of national pride. I can only assume it's because they haven't seen those Greenpeace types in action and so though the anti-whaling protests were a racist attack on the grounds of 'western ideals'.

The fact that Japan is a non-western country seemed to inflame a lot of people when it shouldn't have and turned this into a cultural debate and an international issue. I personally don't think it should have gone that far but both sides keep stepping up the attacks and turning a simple animal protection issue into a three ring circus.

[otoko]

Originally Posted by MadamePapillon

The fact that the whaling debate now is now riddled with politics and racist accusations just shows that this whole issue has been blown waaaay out of proportion.
The original reason for all this was that Japan was hunting whales while other countries (more specifically, the environmentalists) thought that whales should be protected because of ethical/ environmental issues. The intent wasn't racist, after all, these people go after the kangaroo killings of Australia, the seal killings of Canada ect, any place they see what could be considered the unethical killings or treatment of animals...Japan was just one of a long list off offenders. For some reason or another Japan took this as a personal attack and a matter of national pride. I can only assume it's because they haven't seen those Greenpeace types in action and so though the anti-whaling protests were a racist attack on the grounds of 'western ideals'.
The fact that Japan is a non-western country seemed to inflame a lot of people when it shouldn't have and turned this into a cultural debate and an international issue. I personally don't think it should have gone that far but both sides keep stepping up the attacks and turning a simple animal protection issue into a three ring circus.

Being against whaling ethically and being against it for environmental reasons are two different things. Many people are against the killing of whales because they think whales shouldn't be killed. They don't view whales as a food source. Some of these people also claim that whaling should stop for environmental reasons. That is just oppurtunism.

From your post:

For some reason or another Japan took this as a personal attack and a matter of national pride.

I think this sums up what is wrong in this situation. For some reason...I don't see why it can't be for a good reason. I think that it would help the situation to actually understand why the Japanese react the way they do. It doesn't seem like people are interested in finding out. Isn't insanity doeing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result?

[pipokun]

You can debate even "What about other animals' rights?" in the whaling section here.

Whaling in Japan Articles, statistical data and personal opinions related to whaling in Japan.

I don't know why this thread has not been moved yet, though I know politics is deeply related to ethics.

[Sarapva]

Part of the outcry against the Japanese whaling is that it's being done in the whale sanctuary that many countries want left alone. The whaling itself is one thing, but going so far and into other countries' territories is another thing. Racism has nothing to do with being against this.

[Mars Man]

I tend to agree with the following propriety:

Originally Posted by Sarapva

Part of the outcry against the Japanese whaling is that it's being done in the whale sanctuary that many countries want left alone.

Whether that particular area of ocean actually belongs to any one political national group or not is seemingly still open for debate. However, herein we find one more part of the problem, namely that if other political nation-states wish to have any whalers refrain from whaling in such a designated area of ocean, those governments should go through the common political means and methods in working with the political nation-state in which the whaling individuals reside, and not non-government organizations of any sort.

On top of that, actually, those nation-states which would like to see whaling prohibitied in such areas of ocean, should actually take action so as to prevent what are clearly unproductive, juvenile tactics carried out by such NGOs or self-appointed activist groups.

That those political nation states which wish to protect any said ocean sanctuary, are not doing the two things mentioned above with any greatly noticable resolve, the 'problem' is mostly amplified and over emotionalized.

[MadamePapillon]

Whether that particular area of ocean actually belongs to any one political national group or not is seemingly still open for debate. However, herein we find one more part of the problem, namely that if other political nation-states wish to have any whalers refrain from whaling in such a designated area of ocean, those governments should go through the common political means and methods in working with the political nation-state in which the whaling individuals reside, and not non-government organizations of any sort.

Whether or not the waters ARE recognized by Japan as a whale sanctuary the fact remains that by going into those waters and staying there they are knowingly causing international controversy and definitely not showing the same respect to the Australian Government that they demand for themselves. If it was simply about them wanting to peacefully hunt whales it wouldn't be such an issue, they wouldn't be in a disputed whale sanctuary and they certainly wouldn't be engaging Sea Shepard (who most agree are trying to stir up trouble themselves) in any sort of confrontation.

That they are hunting in disputed water, refusing to leave and actively taking part in antagonizing Sea Shepard and still try to play themselves off as the victim just screams hypocrisy.

[Mars Man]

If we say that it ( the area of ocean) is disputed as to the relation of any political nation state and that area of ocean, we are saying that the concept is in debate, are we not? In a state where a certain area of ocean cannot be said to belong to any single political nation state, I reason it would be very hard to argue to any materially definitive degree that any group of whalers or fishers going into that area and fishing or whaling, is describable as being something not peaceful.

However, again, we must be more careful here. I am not that all certain that the political organization that is Japan, has either endorsed or has frowned on those private whalers--other than to supply 'overseers' in the form of National Coastguard members.

It is not the case at all, that the Japanese vessels have engauged the vessels which belong to those private NGO groups, in the strictest sense, but rather that those vessels came out to meet, and thus engauge the ships from Japan.

So before we try to make conclusions, we should be more careful with the details. The first one would have to be the state of the area of ocean in the eyes of the United Nations, and the degree to which the aggregate of indepenent political states see, support and adhere to the understanding of the UN.

[david@tokyo]

Originally Posted by MadamePapillon

definitely not showing the same respect to the Australian Government that they demand for themselves

The Australian Government only created their domestic whale sanctuary less than 10 years ago. Japan on the other hand has been operating whaling fleets in the Antarctic since 1934, and continues to do so in accordance with international agreements to which both Japan and Australia are signatory. It's Australia's fault for making domestic legislation that conflicts with international agreements to which Australia has adhered to.

If it was simply about them wanting to peacefully hunt whales it wouldn't be such an issue, they wouldn't be in a disputed whale sanctuary

I think you've got the sequence of events around backwards.

The situation is that some people didn't like nations hunting whales in the Southern Ocean, so they sought to have a sanctuary established. The IWC made it's sanctuary in 1994. However it's worth noting that IWC sanctuaries only apply to commercial whaling, which due to the 1987 moratorium means that sanctuaries are ineffective because commercial whaling is currently banned anyway.

But now, 14 years down the track, the general public of Australia has become used to the idea of those waters being a "sanctuary", if only in hope, but it does not change the fact that Japan has been there whaling since 1934, and continues to do so in accordance with international agreements.

So it's not Japan, by continuing it's activities that made the situation confrontational - the situation is due to Australians and others who came in later trying to make up reasons why whaling should be banned. Imagine what the world would be like if people could get away with this sort of thing. If it was an issue of more direct importance than whaling we could see wars occur because of such bad faith.

and they certainly wouldn't be engaging Sea Shepard (who most agree are trying to stir up trouble themselves) in any sort of confrontation.

I'd like to see whether other governments would respond in as restrained a manner as Japan has when confronted the way that they have been.

Canada has issued warnings to SS protest vessels, and I understand that there's a good reason why Paul Watson doesn't go near Norway anymore.

[outspoken_plimpy]

I don't think that Australia on the whole is racist towards Japan in particular, however over 99% of the population are against whaling despite have no evidence provided other then what they are told on the news. I have yet to meet a pro-whaling Australian, having lived there for 75% plus of my life. Not that long ago I was anti-whaling as well, but only vaguely, I didn't care particularly.

I got an English assignment, which was a speech on a controversial topic. I chose pro-whaling for kicks, and looking at a particular site (representing the Institute for Cetacean Research) convinced me over to the "dark side". From then on, when I see something on the news condemning Japan/whaling or similar I get frustrated.

[Chaostic Pen]

It is true that the matter is about Japanese whaling in Australian waters and it's nothing about Japanese whaling at all.

Australian have their rights to defend their reputation and they cannot allow anyone to fish on their own waters and they have their rights to accuse Japan over whaling within their own waters. As most Australian were saying "they whaled in Australian seas" and not by saying "the Japanese always whaling, how disgusting".

From this point of view I can tell that the Australian are feeling insulted over the incident of whaling in the Australian seas.

We Vietnamese have our fishermens cross bothered over into the Chinese's waters and our fishermens were shot dead by them for countless of times.

But the problem for australia is that "are they prepared to loose Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and even Vietnam on their side?". The communist China are raging power against the Western world and constantly threaterning the world's order. The only reason why you Westerners invaded our countries were to stop the spread of communism and to have democracy influenced on us.

If we have to keep on enduring racism over such stupidity then we might as well betray the Western countries and work with China to strengthen our position in the regions. Since white people are viewing us all the same then there is no reason for us not to accept China weather it's communism or not

[Chaostic Pen]

Now, let's pretend that we are Australian.

Perhaps, Australia, America and Britain are the most generous countries when it comes to taking immigrants and those white people felt that they are being extremely generous to the outsiders so something like whaling should upset them alot.

But hences, most immigrants are not Japanese, Korean or even Vietnamese people so we don't really feel those generousity and not to mention the racism we have to always endure in those countries.

White people have always invaded our countries and committed alot of war crimes against us. Just for us South Vietnamese alone, I still don't understand the true meaning of Democracy, the thing that my people keep fighting for. How come we have to suffer from so many invasions and in the end democracy have ultimately destroyed our country and the relationship between N and S, and when we lose the war we fled on a little boat for without foods or drinks for days and then finally we were putted into reeducational camp and then were finally accepted into those countries to suffer from more racism. For being on your side, it's not like we get special treatments, but instead we keep getting harassed by white people blindlessly.

If you white people can do such things to our people then why should we care about some damn whales?

[nice gaijin]

We white people don't really like it when you talk about us as a group. It's not like we had a meeting and decided to **** on your people. Try to savor the irony of talking about racism when you yourself are being racist.

[grapefruit]

Originally Posted by Chaostic Pen

It is true that the matter is about Japanese whaling in Australian waters and it's nothing about Japanese whaling at all.

I didn't know that Japanese were whaling in Australian waters. Is it true?

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by grapefruit

I didn't know that Japanese were whaling in Australian waters. Is it true?

It is Antarctic Ocean - the open sea.

[Ukonkivi]

There's quite a lot of things I think are Japanophobia. Anti-whaling is not one of them.

Whaling is something we in the West have not liked in a long time.