Why do You Oppose Whaling?

[Mikawa Ossan]

Why do you oppose whaling in the abstract sense?
Make your case here!

I have noticed several cases for opposing whaling.

1. Killing whales is necessarily unjustifiably cruel.
2. Whale meat is heavily contaminated with mercury, etc., and therefore unsafe for consumption.
3. Whales are endangered and/or they require a long time to repopulate.

This is just off the top of my head, so I'm sure there are a lot of reasons to oppose whaling that are not on my list! But more importantly, what do YOU believe?

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This thread is for stating your beliefs only. It is not for debating pro vs. anti whaling.

Any off-topic remarks will be removed. Any flaming and responding to flaming will be similarly treated with the addition of a formal infraction for each instance.

I know whaling is an emotional issue. Let's work together and keep the debate on the other threads.

If you are pro-whaling, you can make your case in the following thread:
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread...400#post556400

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[Sarapva]

Thanks, Mikawa Ossan - this is a good chance to get clear on some of these things.

Reasons why I oppose whaling:

1. It is inherently cruel. There is no way to ensure a clean kill with a whale. Besides the fact that whales are so big, there's constant movement of the whales and the hunting ship, making a precise harpoon shot almost impossible.

2. There might be environmental impacts we're not aware of. Marine biologists understand how the reduction of whale numbers can upset the balance of the eco-system of the oceans, but there could be other problems whale hunting causes that we're not aware of yet.

3. Whales sometimes have social groups where the loss of one effects the lives of the others. When we kill a whale, we don't follow the rest of the group to see how it's affected by the loss. Whales that are monitored by environmental groups have been shown to be influenced by each other.

4. It's unnecessary. We don't need to kill whales to survive. We're using money and resources that could be better used somewhere else.

5. It creates a negative cycle. We humans should be stewards of our environment instead of exploiters. It's in our own interests to keep the earth in good condition. When we destroy the environment and kill animals for financial profit, we create a cycle of destruction that only spirals downward.

[Chi65]

All the above and additionally the very dubious, unresponsible way towards their own countrie's consumers/inhabitants (and respectlessness towards first questions only from others!) in which the matter is handled by the whalers and pro-whalers plus government.
That was the first reason for me to feel intensely warned.

Not to forget the fact and way, the "racist-card" is played out in this context, which make more and more international readers laugh by now.

With other words, the misuse of the issue.

[gaijinalways]

Actually I am not opposed to it or in favor of it (which said option is missing), but I think the Japanese opinion of killing so many for supposed research purposes is poor resoning. If the Japanese were;

killing them so that the hunters could eat the meat themselves (as the Aleutians do)

or only killing a few for research

then I would agree the japanese shouldn't be criticized about it. We kill plenty of animals that we pen up.

[onthink]

It is very cruel. Besides, there are not enough whale in the sea. If the slaughter of whales go on, they will die out from the world.

[Ava-from-wonderland]

I oppose all haunting. I think it`s really unnecessary... Excecially haunting whales. Peoples really can live without whale meat, so why to kill them?
And Whales are/nearly are endangered. If we continue like this, there will be no whales in few decades, or even sooner.
Whales give no birth to many babies a year like many other animals.
Somewhere i read that some whales don`t even give birth every year... So if we keep killing them they will no more be able to repopulate.
And, i think Sarapva sed it wisely:
2. There might be environmental impacts we're not aware of. Marine biologists understand how the reduction of whale numbers can upset the balance of the eco-system of the oceans, but there could be other problems whale hunting causes that we're not aware of yet

[Thorham]

I'm against killing creatures in general, except for survival (tradional tribes who live in the wild, they have no choice, for example). In my opinion it's quite barbaric, and shouldn't be part of modern civilization. It would be another story if humans needed animal based food, but we of course don't

[Pachipro]

Killing whales, which are sentient mammels and very close to humans in their habits, today is inherently cruel and unjustified in todays world. Whales are not needed for food or for their blubber which was a source of fuel in the past. The only reason to hunt whales today is for greed and the money it brings from those that eat expensive whale meat to prove that they have more money than others and are "superior" to the peons.

I have tasted whale meat in the past while in Japan and it did nothing for me and it has never passed my lips since nor will it ever again. It is cruel and inhuman.

[Illusional]

wow it seems that many of the posters here are against whaling. personally i don't think that it's any different that fishing in the open ocean, or raising cattle here for slaughting purpsoses.

with the thought that many of you reside in the US, i'm sure that many of the posters of this thread are also not 100% vegetarians. however, what is the different of killing a whale as opposed to eating farm raised fish??

people will say that it's inhumane, yet it's human instinct that drives us to survival. we as a planet raise various types of animals for slaughter and i know that the US is probably one of the biggest consumers of meat products on the world.

for those of you who feel that whales are also mammals.... so are cattle, yet they taste so good. just take a look at what mcdonalds has done to our country. it made us fat because it tastes so damn good.

anyhow, i've never tasted whale, but i probably will try it on my next trip to japan. it's just another form of food to me.

raverboy

[Emoni]

I know little about the actual details of the whaling situation with Japan. I know the basic arguments of both sides and incidents, but I don't consider that really understanding it.

I will say that I lean towards the anti-side for one minor silly reason I guess... whale doesn't even taste good. I tried it in Japan to get a feel for if this was for the taste or so... bleh, pretty crappy sashimi actually. Over priced and fairly lousy. Didn't seem like many others were ordering it either.

Silly reason yes... but still, I guess you could say my primary reason for leaning against it is taste; it isn't worth it.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Illusional

however, what is the different of killing a whale as opposed to eating farm raised fish??

Yeah, what is indeed the difference between a being with a brain that's larger than our own and a simple fish, I wonder.

Originally Posted by Illusional

people will say that it's inhumane, yet it's human instinct that drives us to survival.

Survival is instinct, most of us don't live in survival situations. I don't call going to the supermarket to buy food survival.

Originally Posted by Illusional

we as a planet raise various types of animals for slaughter

We as a planet? What? We are not a planet, we are humans and us humans don't all raise animals for slaughter, just look at the massive number of vegetarians in India.

[Derfel]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, what is indeed the difference between a being with a brain that's larger than our own and a simple fish, I wonder.

That only means there's more brains for us to eat.

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan

Why do you oppose whaling in the abstract sense?

The question seems to be founded upon a premise of everyone opposing whaling.

I don't.

[butakun]

Mike and Illusional,

This thread was created specifically for those opposing whaling to make their case. There is also another thread for those for whaling. Just below this one. So it's no coincidence every one here seems against whaling.

[kukuruu]

Generally, I'm against most animal cruelty. My partner is a strict vegan, but I do still eat meat sometimes (although it's becoming less frequent). I don't like fur, fox hunting, whale hunting, seal clubbing etc. It's just cruel. I dislike certain countries eating cats and dogs, but I do understand that there are some countries that are against some of the things that Britain does, like eating pork and beef. This is just down to cultural differences.
If Britain was involved in whale hunting, I'd have a much stronger opinion, but I have no right to tell Japan, a country with a different culture to Britain, what is right and wrong.

[Illusional]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yeah, what is indeed the difference between a being with a brain that's larger than our own and a simple fish, I wonder.

Survival is instinct, most of us don't live in survival situations. I don't call going to the supermarket to buy food survival.

We as a planet? What? We are not a planet, we are humans and us humans don't all raise animals for slaughter, just look at the massive number of vegetarians in India.

it's interesting. regardless of the size of an animal's brain, an animal is still considered an animal. some people will consume it while other's will detest it. while on the other hand it is intesting that you brought up the supermarket. i'm sure that you're not a farmer, nor do you grow your own vegetables for day to day consumption, so in turn, you do reply on the supermarket for survival.

when compared to india, the majority of the planet does consume animal products. whether it may be animals or incects, all these living things too possess a brain so how do you argue that eat incects considered fair?

Originally Posted by butakun

Mike and Illusional,

This thread was created specifically for those opposing whaling to make their case. There is also another thread for those for whaling. Just below this one. So it's no coincidence every one here seems against whaling.

sorry i was not aware that another thread was present. i did not come into this thread to offend anyone, i just wanted to state how i felt.

raverboy

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by butakun

Mike and Illusional,

This thread was created specifically for those opposing whaling to make their case. There is also another thread for those for whaling. Just below this one. So it's no coincidence every one here seems against whaling.

And here the assumption is that I support whaling.

[Illusional]

i didn't assume anything. you didn't really present a reason that you supported it or was against it. you were simply aknowledging the presence of the pro whaling thread.

raverboy

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Mike Cash

And here the assumption is that I support whaling.

That's not so strange if you write:

Originally Posted by Mike Cash

The question seems to be founded upon a premise of everyone opposing whaling.

I don't.

Originally Posted by Illusional

it's interesting. regardless of the size of an animal's brain, an animal is still considered an animal.

Yes, I know, and humans are considered animals by biological science as well. The point was: What's the difference between a whale and a fish?

Originally Posted by Illusional

i'm sure that you're not a farmer, nor do you grow your own vegetables for day to day consumption, so in turn, you do reply on the supermarket for survival.

That's right, I'm not a farmer. However, I think modern farmers buy their food at the supermarket just like everyone else. With survival I mean surviving in the wild and not the luxurious living that most of us do.

Originally Posted by Illusional

when compared to india, the majority of the planet does consume animal products. whether it may be animals or incects, all these living things too possess a brain so how do you argue that eat incects considered fair?

Fair? Well, consuming any kind of animal seems fair to me, including insects. Lions do it, and we're not allowed? Don't worry, I'm the last one to tell people such nonesense. However, animal consumption is not necessary in the modern world, which is why I've personally stopped buying animal based foods. I just don't like unnecessary killing, that's all.

Originally Posted by Illusional

sorry i was not aware that another thread was present. i did not come into this thread to offend anyone, i just wanted to state how i felt.

raverboy

That's fine, I just hope that I didn't sound too much like the vegan police (I share their diet because I don't buy animal based products, so technically I am one).

Originally Posted by kukuruu

but I have no right to tell Japan, a country with a different culture to Britain, what is right and wrong.

Yes you do have that right. Certain very backward cultures stone people to death. Is it wrong to say that's wrong? Not to me.

[Mike Cash]

Is anyone else concerned by the fact that we are engaging in the intellectual equivalent of this:

[Illusional]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes, I know, and humans are considered animals by biological science as well. The point was: What's the difference between a whale and a fish?

the only difference is that fish aren't mammals. i still don't see anything wrong with eating mammals, or hunting them for this matter of discussion.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Fair? Well, consuming any kind of animal seems fair to me, including insects. Lions do it, and we're not allowed? Don't worry, I'm the last one to tell people such nonesense. However, animal consumption is not necessary in the modern world, which is why I've personally stopped buying animal based foods. I just don't like unnecessary killing, that's all.

i can see where you are coming from and i respect that. i feel that most of the world are carnivorous. we love the taste of blood and flesh grounded up into a delicious burger... mmmm. personally i don't mind all the killing. i wouldn't do it myself, but if it came down to it, i would cut up my dog if my life depended on him or me dying.

Originally Posted by Thorham

Yes you do have that right. Certain very backward cultures stone people to death. Is it wrong to say that's wrong? Not to me.

this is also correct. a forum is a place of ideas and opinions. who cares if britain doesn't hunt for whale. if you feel a certain way about it, then express yourself.

personally i love violence, but when you see someone getting stoned, it's sad.. but in reality, i'm glad and it's not someone that i know.

raverboy

[risingsun]

There are only few whales in the world as oppose to humans. They don't eat humans and don't bother human beings. Stop killing them. Let them live.

[Tullera]

I am opposed to whaling. Except on for villages where the entire whale is eaten by those who slaughter it.

There is no humane way to kill whales. The die a prolonged and agonising death.

However, we are all contributing every day to their extinction anyway. Whales such as Humpbacks are destined to die as our polar seas warm and the krill they rely on for survival dies out. There will soon be not enough krill to feed the whales so the debate will be at an end.

[Putrefaction]

Unnecessary tradition that doesn't do much good in the world any more. Basically what Pachipro said.

[caster51]

Originally Posted by Putrefaction

Unnecessary tradition that doesn't do much good in the world any more. Basically what Pachipro said.

It is that the Japanese decides it.