I had extensive discussions on another forum. But it seems that I don't get any answers so I would like to ask your helps on solving mystery on japanese ethnics and wave of korean migrations to japanese islands.
In this thread, I assume migrations mean "yayoi" migrations from 100BC-400AD. Also, there are some particular wordings that sound like ranting, but this is because the sources are from discussion forums, so please spare me, if this include offensive uses of words to anyone.
First off, I start with genetics...
Some Korean pointed me out the article posted below, and it seems that there is a way to interpret the genetic makeups of japanese and korean in relation to the historical events in and outside japan.
Y-chromosomal Binary Haplogroups in the Japanese Population
and their Relationship to 16 Y-STR Polymorphisms
Nonaka et al.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111...006.00343.x/pdf
O2b (or O2b*) is 17.2 percents of south korean. And, O3 is 44.5 percents of south korean.
C3 is 8.8% of south korean.
Question is O2b1 is really Japanese gene? Are they borne in Korean peninsula or in Japan?
What I don't really understand about O2b*, korean gene, is that only 17.2 percents of Korean males had this lineage, whereas females had supposedly more of these O2b* equivalents, D4 mtDNA. Then, what is the rest of 82.8 percents of the korean male lineages? And if women were D4 mtDNA , then this means that another group colonized this O2b* group?
I believe there are two big points in history, this comes to a realization.
Lelang commandery lasted more than 400 years of chinese rules in Korean peninsula, and it may be that ancient Koreans were all moved to the tiny edges of remaining peninsula, that probably implies the demise of Koreanic races at one point, or large demographic changes from O2b* into O3 and C3 by chinese invasions. Then, Goguryeo retook the peninsula, so there comes another demographic transformations adding more O2b?
There are historical events that make Han chinese, conqueror of the Korean Peninsula for 400 years like Genghis Khan.
So, what does this mean? Which groups of korean can cross the sea, and join japanese? How many of them came to japan from korea?
Together with helps from korean people, I made three scenarios on the movement of korean people into japanese islands.
Scenario: Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers
Scenario: Goguryeo men are O2b* carriers
Scenario: Goguryeo men and Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers, i.e., Goguryeo is a descendant of Gojoseon
Hypotheses on continental events and genetics:
C3 @ YDNA : male lineages @ original Gojoseon people? or Goguryeo people?
O2b* @ YDNA : male lineages @ from Jilin Province of China. So-called Korean haplogroup.
D4 @ mtDNA : female lineages @ dominant in south korean females from Amur river, or from Northeast China
Hypothesis 1:
Hypothesis 2:
Hypothesis 3:
Hypothesis 4:
There are many hypotheses made by korean people, but there are some keys to solve the mystery of korean migrations into japan...
I finished this topic by posting Lelang Commandery's map image...
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9195/43512643.jpg
In this thread, I assume migrations mean "yayoi" migrations from 100BC-400AD. Also, there are some particular wordings that sound like ranting, but this is because the sources are from discussion forums, so please spare me, if this include offensive uses of words to anyone.
First off, I start with genetics...
Some Korean pointed me out the article posted below, and it seems that there is a way to interpret the genetic makeups of japanese and korean in relation to the historical events in and outside japan.
Y-chromosomal Binary Haplogroups in the Japanese Population
and their Relationship to 16 Y-STR Polymorphisms
Nonaka et al.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111...006.00343.x/pdf
South Korean:
Japanese:
- O2b* - 17.2 percents (So-called uniquely Korean gene)
- O2b1 - 12 percents (So-called uniquely Japanese gene)
- O3 - 44.5 percents
Japanese:
- O2b* - around 8 percents (So-called uniquely Korean gene)
- O2b1 - around 20 percents (So-called uniquely Japanese gene)
- O3 - around 20 percents
O2b (or O2b*) is 17.2 percents of south korean. And, O3 is 44.5 percents of south korean.
C3 is 8.8% of south korean.
Question is O2b1 is really Japanese gene? Are they borne in Korean peninsula or in Japan?
Haplogroup O2b1
Time of origin 7,870 [95% CI 5,720–12,630] years ago[8]
Place of origin perhaps the Japanese archipelago[8]
Ancestor O2b
Defining mutations 47z
Highest frequencies
Japanese 24 percents [12] (19%[3]-25%[8][9]),
Okinawans 17 percents [13] (11%[8]-20%[9]),
Koreans 8 percents[14] (4%[8][11]-12%[15]),
Manchus 7 percents[16] (0%[11][8][15]-19%[4])
What I don't really understand about O2b*, korean gene, is that only 17.2 percents of Korean males had this lineage, whereas females had supposedly more of these O2b* equivalents, D4 mtDNA. Then, what is the rest of 82.8 percents of the korean male lineages? And if women were D4 mtDNA , then this means that another group colonized this O2b* group?
I believe there are two big points in history, this comes to a realization.
Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313)
Goguryeo and Altaic revival?
Goguryeo and Altaic revival?
Lelang commandery lasted more than 400 years of chinese rules in Korean peninsula, and it may be that ancient Koreans were all moved to the tiny edges of remaining peninsula, that probably implies the demise of Koreanic races at one point, or large demographic changes from O2b* into O3 and C3 by chinese invasions. Then, Goguryeo retook the peninsula, so there comes another demographic transformations adding more O2b?
Just like Genghis Khan conquered the world.http://anthropology.net/2007/05/21/genghis...an-populations/
It has been hypothesized that about 16 million people have some of his genetic make up. To test this hypothesis, researchers investigated Y-chromosomes with representatives of 18 nations of Northern Eurasia.
There are historical events that make Han chinese, conqueror of the Korean Peninsula for 400 years like Genghis Khan.
So, what does this mean? Which groups of korean can cross the sea, and join japanese? How many of them came to japan from korea?
Together with helps from korean people, I made three scenarios on the movement of korean people into japanese islands.
Scenario: Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers
Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) swept out Gojoseon men (O2b* @ YDNA), and mated with Gojoseon women (D4 @ mtDNA)? Gojoseon demography transformed from O2b* into O3. Goguryeo people (C3) came and took out the land from both Gojoseon and Lelang Commandery. Gojoseon men, subjugated and enslaved by Goguryeo, fled to Japan to become the 8 percents of present day Japanese, colonized Japan, and finally mixed with and assimilated into the primitive people of japan (D @ YDNA)..?
Scenario: Goguryeo men are O2b* carriers
Gojoseon men (C3 @ YDNA) were colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) for 400 years. Goguryeo men (O2b* @YDNA), originally from Jilin province of China, came and took control of Lelang Commandery (O3 @ YDNA) and progressed to subjugate/enslave C3 carriers, Mahan, Jinhan, Byeonhan men (C3 @ YDNA)? Later Goguryeo mixed with the han chinese (O3 @ YDNA) to form korean ethnic group (O2b* and O3). Enslaved and suppressed by Goguryeo, Baekje, crossed the sea, and become the 8 percents of present day Japanese, colonized Japan, and finally mixed and assimilated into the primitive jomon people (D @ YDNA)?
Scenario: Goguryeo men and Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers, i.e., Goguryeo is a descendant of Gojoseon
At the founding of Goguryeo (BC37-668), Goguryeo people were already colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313). Many Gojoseon women were mated with Han chinese men to survive the hardship of colonial rule. Majority of Goguryeo women were married with Han chinese men (O3), and original Goguryeo men (O2b*) decreased to the 20 percents of all Goguryeo men. With the declining influence from china, Goguryeo men (44.5 percents O3 + 17.2 percents O2b*) rioted against china, and destroyed Lelang Commandery?
Baekje men, or Gojoseon men (44.5 percents O3 + 17.2 percents O2b*) crossed the sea, and colonized japan, and become 8% of Japanese men of korean genes (O2b*), and 20 percents of Japanese men of chinese genes(O3)?
C3, 8.8 percents of south Korean genes, were neither from Goguryeo or nor Gojoseon. Mongol invasions (AD1231-1270) added the C3 YDNA to modern South Koreans.
Baekje men, or Gojoseon men (44.5 percents O3 + 17.2 percents O2b*) crossed the sea, and colonized japan, and become 8% of Japanese men of korean genes (O2b*), and 20 percents of Japanese men of chinese genes(O3)?
C3, 8.8 percents of south Korean genes, were neither from Goguryeo or nor Gojoseon. Mongol invasions (AD1231-1270) added the C3 YDNA to modern South Koreans.
Hypotheses on continental events and genetics:
C3 @ YDNA : male lineages @ original Gojoseon people? or Goguryeo people?
O2b* @ YDNA : male lineages @ from Jilin Province of China. So-called Korean haplogroup.
D4 @ mtDNA : female lineages @ dominant in south korean females from Amur river, or from Northeast China
Hypothesis 1:
In the beginning, there were C3 carriers, who were original Gojoseon people of Korea. Later, it is destroyed by Han China, and colonized. Goguryeo, O2b* carriers, then destroyed Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) and free people from Han chinese colonization of Gojoseon, then they mated with Gojoseon females, with D4 mtDNAs, then formed the country and people of Korea. They eventually managed to cross the sea and settled in japanese islands.
Hypothesis 2:
female lineages @ most korean females were from China, but later colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) of 400 years han chinese rules, then most korean females had to survive by having chinese male partners? They eventually managed to cross the sea and settled in japanese islands.
Hypothesis 3:
Some unknown natural disasters displaced O2b* carriers from Jilin to Korea, and then to Japan, and for some unknown reasons, only females were allowed to stay in korea?
Hypothesis 4:
Koreans were mostly from china. But there were invaders from unknown tribes of O2b* in China, and colonized the residents, formed Gojoseon. But later, Lelang Commandery colonized 3/4 of korea, and displaced O2b* to the southernmost Korea. Goguryeo people, who were mostly northeast chinese, destroyed commandery, and established what is known as korea. They eventually managed to cross the sea and settled in japanese islands.
There are many hypotheses made by korean people, but there are some keys to solve the mystery of korean migrations into japan...
- There are opinions disputing that Goguryeo people was O2b* carrier or not.
- Another agenda is whether Gojoseon people was C3 carrier or not.
- There are opinions disputing that Gojoseon people were mixed with O2b* and O3, or C3.
- Also, why did only females remain in Korea? It is surely enigmatic, why O2b* carriers were minority in modern day korean men, but D4 mtDNA carriers are dominant in modern day south korean women.
I finished this topic by posting Lelang Commandery's map image...
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9195/43512643.jpg
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