Whales Starving Millions

[thomas]

Reported by ABCNews.com, July 4, 2002:

Japan Minister Blames Whales for Starving Millions

Japan's farm minister, defending his country's controversial scientific whaling program, suggested on Thursday the giant ocean mammals were taking food from the mouths of millions of starving people worldwide.

"I wonder whether you know that whales consume more than three to five times the maritime resources (that humans do), or in terms of fish, 300 million to 450 million tons of fish," Agriculture Minister Tsutomu Takebe told a news conference.

"I also have to point out that on the earth there are 800 million human beings who are undernourished."

Takebe later qualified his remark, saying he was merely pointing out the necessity of exploiting natural resources on a sustainable basis and not arguing that whales were actually to blame for global hunger.

It was not the first time he has drawn fire -- or stirred bewilderment -- by citing a threat to world fisheries resources to argue in favor of whaling.

At the International Whaling Commission's annual meeting in May, he drew parallels with damage to life and limb caused by an rise in the number of African elephants trampling on people.

"People say the hunting of elephants is for ivory, but that is not true," domestic media quoted him as saying. "For those concerned, it's a matter of life and death."

Japan abandoned commercial whaling in 1986 in line with a global moratorium, but began what it calls scientific research whaling the following year.

It lobbied for a resumption of commercial whaling at the latest IWC gathering, but its quest was thwarted at a meeting distinguished by days of bitter battles.

Copyright © Reuters & ABCNews

Sorry, but that sounds a bit ridiculous...

[Anastasia]

That is THE most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life!!! How in the world can he possibly justfiy himself???? Whales are so low in numbers its scarry!! and to start whaling again i KNOW that half of the species remaining will be slaughterd to extinction. how can anyone possible let that happen? a good thing for EVERYONE to watch, its horrible but its the truth and needs to be seen. its called Sea of Slaughter[U] you want to know the truth about the sad and sick history men have with the sea and how much its been exploited and how horrific we have treated mammles, i suggest you watch that, its a good way to educat yourself; and possible make yourself ashamed to be part of such a destructive and crule species.

[Luxpyre]

Wow, some of his statements really make you wince. What is going on in this mans head?

Look at how many people are killed in auto accidents. Lets sell all the cars for scrap to make bedsprings! Look, its even a sustainable argument...

[thomas]

Even if Japan resumed commercial whaling people would continue to starve, unless the J-government started an ambitious program called "Fish for Africa". Honestly, can you believe Mr. Takebe is member of government?

[digicross]

I think that I could see the logic somehow in his argument.

Whales eat fish.

People eat fish.

Whales eat people's share of fish.

People aren't allowed to eat whales to get their share of fish.

People starved while whales get to have their bodies washed by the fish version of Will Smith.


Okay, lets just ignore the last one.


Okay, the argument here of NOT eating whales is due their reported low numbers (which might or might not be true), does this mean that if there're plenty of whales is it okay to eat whales?

That's fine with me.

But if there are plenty of whales to eat but humans aren't allowed to eat them even if that means their own survival is in stake, you can see that the rules here seems to have anti-human spin into it.


Personally, the more worrisome issue here is that the male population of the human populations seems to be dwindling.

Save the Males!

[senseiman]

Apologists for Japan's whaling industry (or those who want to re-constitute Japan's whaling industry I should say) sound like complete Morons every time they open their mouths. They are the most stubborn, obstinate people in the world. Whaling isn't going to do anything to solve world hunger. Whale meat is about the most expensive and least effecient source of food to gather in the world. Plus whale numbers are way down, when they say the whale population is exploding they are actually referring to the -extremely slow- recovery of the whale population after decades of being hunted to near extinction.

[MWThomas]

Originally Posted by digicross

I think that I could see the logic somehow in his argument.
But if there are plenty of whales to eat but humans aren't allowed to eat them even if that means their own survival is in stake, you can see that the rules here seems to have anti-human spin into it.

And that is a problem how?

Personally, I hate people.

What makes us so special? You don't believe what the Christian Bible says do you?

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by digicross

I think that I could see the logic somehow in his argument.

Whales eat fish.

People eat fish.

Whales eat people's share of fish.

Whoa there. When did it get to be people's share of fish?

Originally Posted by digicross

But if there are plenty of whales to eat but humans aren't allowed to eat them even if that means their own survival is in stake, you can see that the rules here seems to have anti-human spin into it.

Starving people aren't starving due to lack of food on a worldwide basis. They are starving because there is insufficient food available to them locally. There are some populations which both a) Have high levels of poverty and associated nutrition problems b) Rely on fishing from the sea as a primary food source however it would be much more realistic to consider the vast amount of fish taken from the sea by other humans as the problem. Fish stocks are low, and in some cases plumeting, not because of whales but because of overfishing by developed countries with high tech fishing fleets which generally don't need them to survive.

Europe, America and (of course) Japan are high up on that list.

Originally Posted by digicross

Personally, the more worrisome issue here is that the male population of the human populations seems to be dwindling.

Save the Males!

*pfft* Show me a country where the ratio is lower than 49% male ...

[Uncle Frank]

President Bush is trying to get the farm minister into his cabinet; great minds think alike?

Frank

[Bob in Iowa]

Originally Posted by Frank D. White

President Bush is trying to get the farm minister into his cabinet; great minds think alike?

LMAO!!! Definitely Frank, he is a Gee Dubya kind of guy.

--Bob

[RockLee]

whales eat like giant squids and stuff that live 'I don't know how freaking far under the ocean'....like we get to see that fish ever ??? omg...some ppl...yeah they take fish away..sure bob...*pets ya on the head*

[Timsan]

Japanese people DO NOT NEED WHALES

As far as I am concerned the only people on this planet that should have the right to hunt whales are the Inuit and Inupiat eskimo's of Northern Alaska and Canada who have done so for over 6,000 years.

The only reason Japan hunts whales is for high end fancy restraunts-there is no legitimacy behind it.

[earthangel]

The real reason why people are starving is not because whales are stealing "our" food but because there are (a) too many people on the planet and (b) people are eating too high on the food chain. If people stopped eating meat, that would free up the grain that is fed to farm animals. Did you know it takes 7lbs of grain to produce 1lb of meat? And that 70-90% of all grains produced on the planet are fed to farm animals? Therefore all the people who are vegans are helping solve the problem. The people who continue to eat meat and dairy are contributing to it. Not the whales.

[lexico]

Originally Posted by MWThomas

Personally, I hate people.

What makes us so special?

I agree. And I also agree to keep them alive to see and bear the consequences like a true man/woman.
Until the last penny is paid off, no capital punishment bacause that's too easy.
Revenge is mine, slow death I do prefer!

[Xkavar]

As far as I am concerned the only people on this planet that should have the right to hunt whales are the Inuit and Inupiat eskimo's of Northern Alaska and Canada who have done so for over 6,000 years.

1. I've spent some time in Northern Alaska.

2. When people hunt, it is to literally feed their family. State law says that if you kill any deer or moose, for whatever reason, you must stay by and skin the animal on the site.

3. You take what you need to survive on. You don't empty the ocean to keep McDonalds filled with super-sized Fish Meals. Why is this a hard concept for people to understand?

[earthangel]

Another interesting point about eating whale meat is how irresponsible it is for the Government of Japan to allow its people to eat food so extremely contaminated with mercury and carcinogenic.

I wonder if this is a subtle form of lowering the population of humans?

Food for thought ....

[earthangel]

Xkavar I heard that Japan is buying whalemeat even from the native people who are allowed to kill whales in secret deals. So these days the natives are killing more whales so they can get $ from Japan which is a very sneaky way of Japan to get more whalemeat creating more of a threat to the survival of whales.

Don't have the refs but if I come across them I will post.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by earthangel

The real reason why people are starving is not because whales are stealing "our" food but because there are (a) too many people on the planet and (b) people are eating too high on the food chain. If people stopped eating meat, that would free up the grain that is fed to farm animals. Did you know it takes 7lbs of grain to produce 1lb of meat? And that 70-90% of all grains produced on the planet are fed to farm animals? Therefore all the people who are vegans are helping solve the problem. The people who continue to eat meat and dairy are contributing to it. Not the whales.

But then other species of animals are going to be slaughtered and then not even eaten. In big farms, they use big machinery to collect crops or however you put it. Guess what happens then? Lots of little creatures such as rodents (rats, mice, rabbits...), snakes, et cetera are mercilessly butchered by being cut up and then are pretty much wasted.

Apparently, no matter what we humans do, we just have to brutally murder and waste something, huh?


As for the original topic, I don't even think people were meant to eat fish. Or, at least, anymore than what one could get scavenging off the shores and whatnot. Fish are a vital part of the ocean eco-system and humans should not be a part of it, especially since all we're doing with it is obliterating it. Humans are not marine animals and, thusly, we really have no business being pretty much anywhere near the water let alone in it or floating atop it or, even worse, practically stealing such an important key element from it to the point of incrediably low numbers and, thusly, probably starving the true animals that not only deserve to have them, but also need it.

So, thusly, that guy is completely and utterly ridiculous. We humans are the ones stealing food from the whales and, as already had been mentioned, I highly doubt low fish stocks are causing world-wide hunger or, at least, in humans.

[Reiku]

This is the very reason why I favor ruthless honesty in debates--when you try to defend your position without angering your opponent by attacking flaws in their core beliefs, you are often left with very weak arguments.

Of course, he could actually believe that--people can be remarkably stupid.

[nurizeko]

Originally Posted by Horizon

But then other species of animals are going to be slaughtered and then not even eaten. In big farms, they use big machinery to collect crops or however you put it. Guess what happens then? Lots of little creatures such as rodents (rats, mice, rabbits...), snakes, et cetera are mercilessly butchered by being cut up and then are pretty much wasted.
Apparently, no matter what we humans do, we just have to brutally murder and waste something, huh?
As for the original topic, I don't even think people were meant to eat fish. Or, at least, anymore than what one could get scavenging off the shores and whatnot. Fish are a vital part of the ocean eco-system and humans should not be a part of it, especially since all we're doing with it is obliterating it. Humans are not marine animals and, thusly, we really have no business being pretty much anywhere near the water let alone in it or floating atop it or, even worse, practically stealing such an important key element from it to the point of incrediably low numbers and, thusly, probably starving the true animals that not only deserve to have them, but also need it.
So, thusly, that guy is completely and utterly ridiculous. We humans are the ones stealing food from the whales and, as already had been mentioned, I highly doubt low fish stocks are causing world-wide hunger or, at least, in humans.

So basically the almigghty vegetarians are killing animals anyway, i mean WTF, do you people want the human race to die off or something, jesus christ.....i wish natural selection still had effect on the human-race, i mean, get aquainted with the food chain and natural order and stuff, animals are always dying, i dont believe in whiping out species but we eat meat. period. live with it.

What about bears?, they are terrestrial animals but they eat fish.

"oh buts its sooooo bloody natural!"

before our ancestors even wore loincloths, our apish ancestors probably trapped fish or at least scavanged the washed-up ones.

Man i just dont know what to say anymore, i mean, kill humanly, dont whipe out species, but the anti-human angle of some opinions here just totaly seem like evolutionary dead-ends to me, And if such extreme conservation methods are so vital for the enviroment, why is it precious few of the activists actually have qualifications in biological science?.

Anyhow, whaling is fine aslong as nothins threatened with extinction, if it is, then tough, its banned.

And yes, the japanese government are a bunch of tits.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by digicross

I think that I could see the logic somehow in his argument.
Whales eat fish.
People eat fish.
Whales eat people's share of fish.
People aren't allowed to eat whales to get their share of fish.
People starved while whales get to have their bodies washed by the fish version of Will Smith.
Okay, lets just ignore the last one.
Okay, the argument here of NOT eating whales is due their reported low numbers (which might or might not be true), does this mean that if there're plenty of whales is it okay to eat whales?
That's fine with me.
But if there are plenty of whales to eat but humans aren't allowed to eat them even if that means their own survival is in stake, you can see that the rules here seems to have anti-human spin into it.
Personally, the more worrisome issue here is that the male population of the human populations seems to be dwindling.
Save the Males!

Lol, Maybe the japanese should start eating the chinese because they take more than their fair share of whale food, after all, human meat is more nutritious than whale ? Yes! Finally japan and china can stop faffing around about how much they hate each, let japan go to war with china, kill the chinese, and then the whales and japanese can share the food and winnings between them !

[Reiku]

Hah! I'd pay to see that!

I've been taking all this crap way too seriously--thanks for bringing some humor into the issue and reminding me what a waste all this bickering is.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Exactly . Somtimes i get way too serious about animal topics debates 24/7, but when you look at politicions like these, you just gotta step back a bit and laugh !

[blackmarlinuk]

Originally Posted by thomas

Reported by ABCNews.com, July 4, 2002:
Japan Minister Blames Whales for Starving Millions
Japan's farm minister, defending his country's controversial scientific whaling program, suggested on Thursday the giant ocean mammals were taking food from the mouths of millions of starving people worldwide.
"I wonder whether you know that whales consume more than three to five times the maritime resources (that humans do), or in terms of fish, 300 million to 450 million tons of fish," Agriculture Minister Tsutomu Takebe told a news conference.
"I also have to point out that on the earth there are 800 million human beings who are undernourished."
Takebe later qualified his remark, saying he was merely pointing out the necessity of exploiting natural resources on a sustainable basis and not arguing that whales were actually to blame for global hunger.
It was not the first time he has drawn fire -- or stirred bewilderment -- by citing a threat to world fisheries resources to argue in favor of whaling.
At the International Whaling Commission's annual meeting in May, he drew parallels with damage to life and limb caused by an rise in the number of African elephants trampling on people.
"People say the hunting of elephants is for ivory, but that is not true," domestic media quoted him as saying. "For those concerned, it's a matter of life and death."
Japan abandoned commercial whaling in 1986 in line with a global moratorium, but began what it calls scientific research whaling the following year.
It lobbied for a resumption of commercial whaling at the latest IWC gathering, but its quest was thwarted at a meeting distinguished by days of bitter battles.
Copyright © Reuters & ABCNews
Sorry, but that sounds a bit ridiculous...

It is Japanese Fishing and sponsoring pirate fishing that is leading to a shortage of fish NOT Whales.

[blackmarlinuk]

Does Japan want the ivory as well?