Do you really like J-pops?

[dygo]

I got a question for you guys.

hey no offense but
I cannot stand top 40s or j-pop... I HATE them!!!

Even though I'm japanese,
I never liked J-pop, or pops(any mainstream songs)
Songs on MTV are out of question to me!

tell me,
What do you like J-pop about???

[Twisted]

I think it depends on how you define JPop.
You can't generalize JPop as a genre.

I can imagine you can get sick of stuff like Morning Musume and all other idol singers.
Especially if you're Japanese yourself and you grew up with this stuff.
Most non-Japanese like it though, because you can't find something like this somewhere else.

That concept also works the other way. I personally hate European dancemusic. I can't stand stuff like The Vengaboys, Milk Inc. or Madhouse, but i've spoken Japanese people who think it's great and find it refreshing compared to JPop.

Your main problem is perhaps not with the music itself, but more with the way it's presented. The bad thing about mainstream music is that being shoved in your face wherever you go and that results into overkill. This is marketing that works with "regular" people, but it's a horrible thing for the real music-lover.

[dygo]

well I also hate those kind of clubby stupid europian
dance music like the vengaboys-ish music.
Milk inc.? Madhouse? I've never heard of them...
I do produce dance/classic music,
but I would never try to produce that kind of music.

Originally posted by Twisted
Your main problem is perhaps not with the music itself, but more with the way it's presented. The bad thing about mainstream music is that being shoved in your face wherever you go and that results into overkill. This is marketing that works with "regular" people, but it's a horrible thing for the real music-lover.

My problem is BOTH, music itself and the way it's presented.
Like I said, even though I've grown up with those music for half of my life, I never liked J-pop musically, and superficially.
I cannot bear total fake music... that's what I wanted to say.

[kinjo]

on which kind of singers you listen to. Yes, singers like Morning Musume, SMAP, Noriyuki Makihara and all the other similar J-Pop singers,are junk, I believe (no offence meant here! ;) )
Dont tell me a band needs 13 MEMBERS! goodness gracious.................now , u dont call that a music band, do you?

They are all so temporary,you cud listen to them a few times, but they just dont make everlasting music, music in the real form.
Its all a bit of crazy dancing, pathetic lyrics, mundane tune and yes, they r irritating. Probably, you could categorize these into J-Noise. ;)

But, I feel it wudn't be right to shrug off J-Pop just because of some set of bands. There are very many good musicians around.....
GLAY,Misuchiru, Dorikamu, Southern All Stars for example,produce pretty good music, I would like to think.
There is good guitaring and drumming and rhythm you can perceive and appreciate.
And oh yeah!, K-Oda..............do I love his melodious evergreen voice....♪♪

For me, there are 3 reasons why I love J-Pop (and of course, that doesn't mean all bands in J-Pop!)

1. melody/versatility/variety in voice/tone
2. the music itself, which involves the tunes, guitaring and rhythm.
3. lyrics (may not be all that great, but is great learning for
gai(koku)jin like me.)

And I presume, that a band lacking all the above, will cease to exist after some time and can be safely classified into J-Noise.
I think this holds good for any kinda music, not only J-Pop.

On top of all this, the very fact that the song is in Japanese, a language I love is reason enuf for me to cheer J-Pop!

Only my personal opinions.

[moyashi]

eh? Do people really intentionally listen to JPop?
I thought most of the girls were popular due to their looks?

Lot's of groups are formed to sell not sing, in my opinion and lot's of friends too.

Daigo is a bit extreme but I think he's got a point and that many Japanese say the same thing. Alas, it's the producers who make the final decision, since they know what we want to hear and see.

Of course, some of the groups are pretty decent.

[Twisted]

@Dygo:
Well, i think JPop is a broader then the music you are referring to. At this forum we're using the term JPop for any form of popular music coming from Japan.
Would you call artists and bands like Melt Banana, Cornelius, The Yellow Monkey, The Mad Capsule Markets, YMO and Denki Groove fake music? Because, in my opinion, that's also JPop.

Come to think of it, music is never really fake. I think there is a big difference between what you see on stage and the producers behind the scene.
You're not listening to Morning Musume, you're listening to Tsunku.
You're not listening to Ami Suzuki or Hitomi, you're listening to Tetsuya Komuro.
You're not listening to Kyoko Fukada, you're listening to Yasuharu Konichi.
You're not listening to Miki Nakatani, you're listening to Ryuichi Sakamoto. Try calling him fake to his face!

I'm curious to hear the music you produce yourself. If you dismiss the above mentioned stage-acts as fake, then why would your dance-music be any different? With this kind of reasoning any music that's not played live (or with "real" instruments) could be called fake.

Ok, i'm getting a bit lengthy now, but i hope you see my point. If you listen to music objectively, every piece of music has it's good points. Whether it be a fat beat, a catchy bassline or a great guitarsolo.


@Moyashi:
Get real! The looks of the artists are just a pleasant extra.
And i didn't get over 10 GB of JPop on my harddrive by accident...


@Kinjo
The term J-Noise is already taken. Listen to Melt Banana or The Mad Capsule Markets.

[Tragedy]

I know what you mean. If I hear that "Traveling" song one more time, heads will roll.

[dygo]

twisted

OK here is my definition of J-pop.
it's like inexperienced singer(s) singing on cheap music.
I really don't know any J-pop artists so I can't give you an example...
Don't get me wrong tho.
I'm not saying all songs made in Japan suck!!
Of course there are many great singers and musicians(ex. soul bossa trio).
I'm not like Mr. hey look at me I'm all americanized anti-jap left-winger that kind of person.

If you dismiss the above mentioned stage-acts as fake, then why would your dance-music be any different?

Of course there is a big difference.
How about african music? Can't it be called "dance music"?
I meant dance music as music for dance!
plus didn't I mention that I also produce classic music?
I compose music for symphonic orchestra and marching band.
I've always been playing french horn and piano as long as I remember. I love classic music.

anyway I and my band members produce any genre of dance music,mainly tribal trancy breaks, because we believe that it is the most complex form of dance music.
You might want to listen to BT or Hybrid or Clint mansell(composer for requiem for a dream), and John barry. you'll get my idea.
It's not **** like cheap europian dance music.
We've also pressed 12" records sold at several stores in the states.I don't have any music on the web so I'll put url here sometime when I get a chance.

YMO and Denki Groove fake music?

How can they be J-pop!??
I always thought they were techno musicians!
uummm I think J-pop needs to be defined more clearly.
It's just my opinion tho.

anyway I hope this post clears up things I said...

[thomas]

Although I'm no Jpop expert, please allow me to add a few banalities.

First of all, we shouldn't generalize and jump to conclusions. If someone told you, he/she hated "classical" or "ethno music" would you take such categorical statements serious? It just shows that this person isn't very well-acquainted with the topic in question.

Therefore:

"I hate classical music" => booboo
"I hate Wagner's 'Ring', but adore Chopin's 'Nocturne' => question of personal taste, shows knowledge

Secondly, in my humble opinion the vital question is not how to define 'Jpop', but how to define 'pop music' itself. "Inexperienced singers": you will probably be able to find them anywhere, not just in Japan.

Thirdly, "cheap" and "mainstream": forgive me, but these terms exhibit an air of arrogance. Schubert and Mozart were mainstream at their time, they - as well as other classical composers - have written some of their most famous pieces within hours, would you still dare calling them "cheap"? I personally believe that no song is cheap as long as it finds an enchanted audience.

Last, but not least, music - along with art, literature, food etc. - largely depends on personal preferences. There's no scientific or rational method of determining its quality or historic rank, because it simply is a question of taste.

We're all entitled to express personal opinions, but that doesn't mean these opinions are unshakable truth. Hehe, I'm talking in circles, but you know what I mean...
;)

[dygo]

Thomas

I know exactly what you mean.
but I think your subject is people's likes and dislikes.
I asked you guys llike this.
"tell me, What do you like J-pop about???"
so i want an opinion like kinjo said!

[Scott]

What I like about J-pop is that it has a sound original to itself. No other gender of music quite has it, and you can't find it anywhere else. Like Moyashi mentioned, most people aren't listening to Morning Musume and others for the sound of their music, but for their looks. I mean come on, do you honestly view Morning Musume as a singing group? With now 13 members, it has evolved into more of an entertainment group. Other singers are viewed as this as well. People like to see cute, young, kawaii girls jumping around and singing. After all, this is what sells. No one really cares how WELL they can sing. If that was it, they'd be LONG gone now. Yes, there are J-pop singers who are respected more for their sound and wouldn't ever want to be seen with the likes of Morning Musume or other teeny groups. You can't really say either one is bad. It's just a matter of personal taste.

[Twisted]

Well, let's put the definitions of JPop aside then.

Japanese music is music i can listen to without prejudice. It's not on the radio here in Holland, so i don't get influenced by DJ's with opinions and i'm not subjected to the overkill i was referring to earlier.
I don't dare to say that the music is better or worse then anywhere else in the world, (although i do believe Japanese musicians are better live-performers). I suppose it's just a choice i made when i first discovered the quality of Japanese music. I could limit myself to listening to music from the west (which i would hear anyway, because it's on the radio all the time), or i could discover another rich world of good music.

I guess i'm lucky that i can listen to all kinds of music, whether it's simple popmusic or more complex compositions. And in the end all that counts is the feeling you get from the music, because that's the reason why you listen to a song more then once.

I'm looking forward to hearing your music, dygo. From what you described it sounds very promising.

[Rocketdive]

yeah! I'm with you :P
idols and most of j-pop music are japanese britneys and backstreet boys :P

[cyorin]

I agree with thomas� everyone has different tastes and we are all entitled to our own opinions. It wouldn稚 be very interesting for all of us to like one type of music now would it? After all, music is a form of expression, and we all express ourselves differently� that痴 just human nature. We池e not robots all programmed to like and dislike the same things. dygo� you池e just sounding like a pompous know-it-all. You don稚 see the greatness of jpop, but you do not have to denounce it. Many people don稚 see what痴 so great about the type of music you produce, but that doesn稚 take the title of 杜usic� away from it. Even the banging of trashcans can be appreciated as music. And yes, you are correct in that you didn稚 ask for definitions� you asked for reasons why people like jpop, but if that was all you wanted to know, then you shouldn稚 have gone as far as to name jpop 吐ake� music. As for one of my reasons why I like jpop� I知 not an expert so I知 not going to attempt to analyze the music, but I like it simply because it痴 different and because of the way it makes me feel when I listen to it� and this is where Twisted made an excellent point� 妬n the end all that counts is the feeling you get from the music.�

[Iron Chef]

Music is music and relative to one's personal tastes and preferences. To pose the question of why one does or doesn't like a particular genre of music is a bit vague and amorphous at best and sure to illicit any number of responses. I think it rash to categorize any type of music as "fake" or merely as fluff. Here in the U.S. many of what is considered by mainstream radio as "pop" artists are so often despised by their peers in other categories of music because of that very same reason. Personally, I think it all depends on the context in which you take it all in. What exactly is wrong with groups who are mass-marketed "bubblegum" lyricists targeted to appeal to throngs of mainstream teen-agers? Simply take it at face value for what it is: entertainment. Whether or not that particular brand of entertainment appeals to you is your own personal choice.

For myself, the appeal of J-Pop has to do with my tendency to have associations with music and certain episodes in my life. Like '80's music here in the U.S., that era holds a particularly strong association for me with the music of that time. It is the same way with J-Pop. When I hear a certain group, song, theme, etc. that I can identify or relate with to my time when I was in Japan, that song becomes embedded in my nostalgia as I correlate it with certain people, experiences, memories, etc. Not sure if that was the answer you were looking for though, heh.

[Ancella]

Ok!! this is a really hot thread!!
I can't only say that not all J-pop music are "fake". I like J-pop, especially the gospellers. They have great voices.

#dgyo
As Indonesian, I also don't like most of Indonesia singers. You know why? 'cause most of them depend on their looks, not their voices. And I really hate it. And I also agree with Thomas, cyorin and Iron Chef, 'cause what they said is right.

[Keiichi]

I live in the US and I don't really like most of the popular and non-popular songs they release here. I like Jpop though. And as someone mentioned, Jpop usually means songs that are currently listed as pop(ular) culture. Enka usually is not listed as Jpop, and I'm not too interested in that either.

[hennagaijin]

Only band so far that has few songs I have really liked is Do As Infinity, I don't know what it is, but "Do As Infinity - Raven" always seems to be a part of my playlist

Other then those few D A I songs, I haven't been able to find any J-Pop that I really like

[Iron Chef]

*side note*

Keiichi, you mentioned Enka and I have to agree with you on that one. It just doesn't seem to appeal to me either although I can appreciate the singer's voices.

[Keiichi]

Does Enka even interest any significant amount of young people in Japan?
Who's that Kiyoshi something-kawa guy that does Enka. He's probably the youngest (like in the 20's) Enka singer I've seen. I saw him sing on tv from one of the Japan Music Awards early this year, and also the Kohaku Songfest I think.

[Rocketdive]

Kiyoshi Maekawa? I like his music
Well enka is not popular to japanese young people... but it's good I like it, I think it was a very popular genre in 70s but young people are now more oriented to jpop...

[Keiichi]

Yeah, I think that's him. I can only read the simple hiragana and kanji from that name.

[luzie]

Hey Keiichi and Rocketdive,
I think, the youngest Enka singer you said is
Hikawa Kiyoshi(氷川きよし)...
He is 25 years old.

Maekawa Kiyoshi is not young;)
He is meybe 55 years old.


well I don't like most of J-Pop(includes Enka).
most of them have no velue for ME.I HATE some of them.
but I know,(and you know!) there're also some
nice J-Pops.
and You know what they say.
"Everyone has his own taste!"

[Rocketdive]

ooh yes >_<
hahaha yes it's Hikawa, not Maekawa
Kiyoshi Maekawa is much older than K. Hikawa

gomen

[ricoche]

The main thing I like about Japanese music is how positive it can make you feel. I came to Japan back in 1993 and I must say that although the quality of music was good in the U.S., it really did bring me waaay down! I understand talking about all the problems in the States is important, but I really did enjoy the nice airy, bubbly, positive feeling I got when listening to a lot of the Japanese music. I can definitley say it puts a smile on my face even though some of it makes you wonder how it ever got on CD.

I've lived in Japan for 10 years now and I've been an active musician as well since my time growing up in the States. I really think that J-pop has been a tremendous influence in giving my music a huge shot of feeling good about myself.

Just my 2 cents.

Enjoy music, it's one of the greatest things in life we have.

Ricoche