What is God?

[Ghost]

A topic for those who have no idea whats going on.....or if you want a good read.

Because of the importance of this issue to discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical to have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. What's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?

Debates and disagreements between atheists and theists tend to center over a single issue: gods, or at least whether or not any gods can or do exist. The is the one thing which differentiates atheists from theists - it isn't necessarily much of an issue, but it can be magnified by a variety of other philosophical, social, and religious matters.

Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?

When a theist claims that a god exists, one of the first questions atheists should ask is "what do you mean by 'god'?" Without understanding what the theist means, the atheist simply cannot evaluate the claim. By the same token, unless the theist is very clear about what he means, he cannot adequately explain and defend his beliefs.

Who Cares? Why Defining God is Important
It might seem to some that discussing the nature, attributes, and character of a supposed god doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless there is some reason to think that this god or even any gods exist in the first place. After all, isn't discussing whether or not a god is omnipotent or omniscient just a waste of time if we have no good reason to suppose it even exists?

God is Perfect & Worthy of Worship
Although there are a number of divine attributes which tend to receive a lot of attention, there is none quite so important for traditional believers as the general principle of absolute perfection and the more narrow implication that, therefore, God is worthy of our worship. These are, in many respects, the very reason why the existence of God is the subject of so much debate - if it weren't for them, there wouldn't be any religions centered around God and perhaps people wouldn't be divided.

God is a Person: Personal Relationships with God
For many people in Western religious traditions, the idea that God is a "person" is a necessary and fundamental part of their beliefs. Indeed, the very idea that God might not be a person is almost inconceivable for that would render them unable to adequately explain their religious history and their own religious experiences.

God & Gender: Is God Really Male?
In many religions throughout history, gods have been portrayed variously as male and female, often embodying important masculine and feminine attributes. The tradition of philosophical theism, however, has had some difficulty with the issue of gender because of the conflicts between religious beliefs and Greek philosophy.

God is Creator & Sustainer of Existence
A very common attribute of gods in religious traditions around the world is that of creation - our universe, our world, and indeed our very selves often owe their existence to creative acts of the gods. In the Western traditions of philosophical theism, the existence of everything is owed to a single creative act by a single perfect God.

God is Omnipotent
What does it mean to be all-powerful? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omnipotence," also sometimes known as all-powerful, refers to God's ability to do absolutely anything God wants. This characteristic is usually treated as implied from God's characteristic as absolute creator. If God is capable of creating all of existence (whether ex nihilo or ex deo), it is felt that it would be nonsensical to then proceed to assert that there are things beyond God's abilities. Any being capable of creating existence itself must therefore be capable of anything at all - right?

God is Omnibenevolent
What does it mean to be all-loving? The concept of "omnibenevolent" stems from two basic ideas of God: that God is perfect and that God is morally good. Therefore, God must possess perfect goodness. Being perfectly good must entail being good in all ways at all times and towards all other beings. This, then, is what it means for God to be omnibenevolent - but there remain questions. First, what is the content of that goodness and second what is the relationship between that goodness and God?

God is Omniscient
What does it mean to be all-knowing? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omniscience," also sometimes known as all-knowing, refers to God's ability to know absolutely everything. This characteristic is usually treated as a consequence of one of two ways in which God exists: either because God exists outside of time, or because God exists as part of time.

God is Provident & Sovereign
Although not usually given much attention in most debates, one critical attribute of God for many believers is the idea that God is "provident," which means that God acts in some fashion that requires God to become involved with humanity and causes the course of human history to be aligned with God's ultimate desires and purposes.

God is Free: Constraint vs. Freedom
One attribute which does not receive a lot of individual attention, but which is commonly assumed when discussing other attributes, is the idea that God is absolutely and perfectly free. What this means is that there is a total absence of any constraints or force or limitations on God whenever God acts - for God, freedom is absolute.

God is Immutable: Why can't God change?
Philosophical theism commonly ascribes to God the attribute of "immutable" - the idea that God cannot and does not change. Whatever God is like now is the way that God was for all of the past and the way God will be for all of the future. It doesn't matter what happens anywhere else, God always and inevitably remains the same.

God is Eternal: Timeless vs. Everlasting
God is commonly portrayed as being eternal; however, there is more than one way to understand the concept of "eternal." On the one hand, God may be thought of as "everlasting," which means that God has existed through all of time. On the other hand, God may be thought of as "timeless," which means that God exists outside of time, unconstrained by the process of cause and effect.

God is Transcendent & Immanent
What is God's relationship to Creation? On the face of it, the characteristics of transcendence and immanence appear to be in conflict. A transcendent God is one who is beyond perception, independent of the universe, and wholly "other" when compared to us. An immanent God, however, is one which exists within - within us, within the universe, etc. - and, hence, very much a part of our existence. But how can these qualities exist simultaneously?

God is Incorporeal: Mind without Body?
It is commonly taken for granted that, when talking about God, we are discussing a being who has no body and is not in any way constructed from matter or energy - both of which are features of the "created universe" rather than the "uncreated God." This attribute of incorporeality should not be taken for granted, however, because it has important implications for other divine characteristics.

God Exists: Necessary & Self-Existent
It might seem odd to list "existence" as an attribute of God, but that's not actually the point here. Of course believers think that their god exists - what is at issue is how God exists. According to philosophical theism, God exists in a very special and unique way: God's existence is necessary rather than contingent.

Well thats my report, would love to hear other peoples opinions on this......so post away.

[jeisan]

ghost, next time you wanna post a report, please do it in one long post rather than 17 little ones.
thanks
jeisan

[kamoo]

hi,
hope that my message will find you in a good faith and health.i will appreciate it , if if you send me your e-mail to write to you about God?
could you plz tell me what is your religion.
hoping to hear from you soon.
kamoo

[Winter]

G*d is a figment of Satan's imagination.

[Ghost]

eerr....im athiest kamoo, dont believe in god.


good one winter

[Uncle Frank]

His new movie hasn't even been released to the open market and people are going nuts about it. The Pope even stayed awake through it !!
Nice post Ghost or should we change it to THE HOLY GHOST ??

Father - Son - & THG

Frank the Cat

[Winter]

Originally posted by Ghost


good one winter

It really wasnt, but thanks.

Hail Satan! PAN DAEMON AEON

[Ghost]

Hail Satan! PAN DAEMON AEON

what does that mean anyways?

[lexico]

I think that was a word play on Pandemonium, pan (Gk. all) + daemon (Gk. god, goddess) + ium (Latin. place), broken down slightly differently at the end where aeon is a long time, to mean "Long live Satan !" I guess. Since the Greek gods are considered pagan, "god" is translated as "spirits, evil spirits, or demons"; pandemonium is often used to say a hellish place, or where all hell breaks loose. Milton's neologism was meant to refer to the capital city of hell in Paradise Lost.
Wiki on Pandaemonium

[Annubis]

I've heard people say that G is an alien. I personally think G is one and all.

[Dutch Baka]

I think god means hope for a lot of people, i believe in god in some way but i do not have a religion.

[Hezam]

God " ALLAH " is not person or human ...he is biggest than you think ...

he is not Jesus ...he is not Muses and he is not Muhammed ...they are all Prophets ..Not Gods ...

and thanks for this thread ....

[Derfel]

Although I like to view God as an elderly wise "seer", its only to suppress my fear of death subconsciously, well probably. As for who He really is? Im quite sure he won't, but inside my heart I always hope the he's the one to purge all the stupid people after their deaths.

[Chi65]

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/
might be best to discuss or read all about this first, if you really wish to know, whats going on in this discussion about god.

As for Allah, there is as much about it there.
(but never forget, the last name is unknown and as present in all religions, if so, I appreciate some fine sufis, esp. those, who now include women. . .)

[Hezam]

In Islam there are more than 100 names of God ...

http://www.islamtoday.com

http://www.55a.net/firas/english

you can find more about that here .....

thanks

[Mycernius]

Originally Posted by Carlos Santana

God " ALLAH " is not person or human ...he is biggest than you think ...
he is not Jesus ...he is not Muses and he is not Muhammed ...they are all Prophets ..Not Gods ...
and thanks for this thread ....

Give me evidence that your God exist and no others do. For all you know the Fling Spaghetti monster is real and Allah is just a figment of human imagination.
BTW the Koran, Bible and such 'Holy' Books are not evidence of gods of any type. A collection of writings from primitive bronze age nomads is not a basis for any type of evidence for the existance of a divine being.
Another question, why is Allah, or Yhwh a he anyway? Could just as well be a she.

Originally Posted by Carlos Santana

God " ALLAH " is not person or human ...he is biggest than you think ...
he is not Jesus ...he is not Muses and he is not Muhammed ...they are all Prophets ..Not Gods ...
and thanks for this thread ....

Give me evidence that your God exist and no others do. For all you know the Fling Spaghetti monster is real and Allah is just a figment of human imagination.
BTW the Koran, Bible and such 'Holy' Books are not evidence of gods of any type. A collection of writings from primitive bronze age nomads is not a basis for any type of evidence for the existance of a divine being.
Another question, why is Allah, or Yhwh a he anyway? Could just as well be a she.

Originally Posted by Carlos Santana

http://www.55a.net/firas/english

you can find more about that here .....

thanks

An apologist site. Great I can give a list that are constantly posted on the AN (Atheist Network) forum from christians. Not very convincing evidence, except to the already convinced (AKA The faithful)

[Janny]

God equals hope, as far as I can see. No wonder old people resort to religion; they feel their end is coming and they turn to God in order to be helped and live longer. As if turning good at the end of your life will ever save you from death..

For me, God is some sort of entity that has disappeared/died since humanity is on the verge of self-destruction. Let's face it, no creator would let his work just get destroyed like this. If He is really out there (I'm not even sure it's a "he") then I want a positive, clear sign, the end of wars everywhere or something... We need help but we get none, so until then, my religious side is locked away somewhere gathering dust.

[Chi65]

Originally Posted by Carlos Santana

In Islam there are more than 100 names of God ...
http://www.islamtoday.com
http://www.55a.net/firas/english
you can find more about that here .....
thanks

Very well known, but that also applies to other beliefs.
Sorry, but I come from a comparative corner and know, its not only in Islam.

Every name is just an aspect, but you cannot really "name" the whole, only for yourself, wherever you are...and you have to accept and respect others "languages".
Even many sufis talk about that. You should know your own kind a bit better, maybe. . .

[Sarapva]

I think each religion is "right" about God - there are different names to mean basically the same thing. It doesn't matter what name we use. I think God is an energy that is everywhere all the time and that it's us people who don't always see Him/Her/It. We have free will, which is why we get ourselves into the messes we're in throughout the world. We have to learn how to use our free will wisely, stop trying to have control and to live harmoniously with everyone.

[centrajapan]

. I think God is an energy

I am sorry to just have pasted a small chunk of your very well written post there but I especially agreed with this part of it.

[Derfel]

Originally Posted by centrajapan

I am sorry to just have pasted a small chunk of your very well written post there but I especially agreed with this part of it.

In that case we might as well be part of God, as we aren't any different, we're made of "waves" too. Perhaps God is a "wavelength"? A "wavelength" that controls the subconsciousness? I know its only a game, but Xenogears had this "Wave Existence" that stood above God (Deus) who was depicted as the evil physical matter that binds the soul, just like in most dualistic religions.

[Chi65]

We got a relatively new name for something here later:
cultural translater

That, in my opinion is the right step to at least first listen to others and then compair it with own views, not exclude, only, whats too limited.
(Sadly, that also applies to some "fundamental" scientists)

Who were always first in stepping over borders, were artists, by the way.
(we had this not only in terms of those in Berlin, but also in terms of contacts between Koreans and Japanese, or both with China etc., and on my several international symposien, we hardly ever had an issue about beliefs, in contrary.
The "other" view was mostly welcomed as an inspiration to see things from a new angle, not to fight against or degrade it.
What was not welcomed, was drunken fights about the "only one", since there is none.
To me, it is nothing but a big puzzle, that will not fall into place by holding just one flag up.
Imagine a mountain, that you can walk up from different sides, but once you are up, you can see the many paths all around you. And that the top is there for everyone.
And before you are not there, you can't see "IT".
And thats not just limited to men...
Who fears women to have the same experience, has a certain fear, but not knowledge, except about male ego, and that is often a reason for fights.
I once found a little page in the internet, from a young japanese woman (student?) in Germany. She realised via some studies, that male dominated societies, also in nature, are much more into wargames than female dominated ones. The later ones to her turned out to be much more relaxed and letting things peacefully fall into place, so to say.
This may not be the norm (yes, I know, some empresses, politicians etc.), but the tendency.
Just something to think about.

[Chi65]

There is another part to it:

Artists and women are more often found to be highly sensitive in terms of Synaesthesia, which is now a very respected condition of the brain, and as for the serious researchers, a basic condition of babies of all gender, later limited by trainings, teachings etc. to adapt out societies. But some survived and for good and will be further on.
Being open to an inner translater, that goes syn, is of basic advantage for survival and also a fine receptor for such energies, waves, as some rightly say.
Yet, not everyone has the same syns going on, as we know very well, but a finetuning is not silenced any more, as often and for long with few exceptions, in contrary, and we may find out much more in the future thus.
By the way, there are some remarkable studies on the way about "music of the stars", saying, that certain waves do in fact make sounds and reach us this way.

[SushiShin]

No one can descide what God is or who God is.
You just believe in God or not.
We can't judge that God is female or male.

It's a spirit that guides us.
I pray sometimes to God, but then again it's God.
I also go to shrines and i pray to God even there is a Buddha in front of my nose, i still pray to God.

Its a energy wave that binds people to have faith in something.
God is everywhere, even if you don't believe, God is next to you, God is in everyone.

There is a story i told to a lot of persons and this story goes like this:

There was a guy who needed aid from God and on a day he and God spoke.
He said to God: God im in need of your presence can you please come? I will make dinner and i'll set the table for us both.
God replied: Okay, i'll come tommorrow.
The following day:

The man waited and stared at the door.
It started to rain and in neighbourhood someone had a disfunction with his car.
He went to our friend and ringed at the door.
The guy thought it was God and he ran to the door.

Guy: God? ow hello what can i do for you?
Person: Sorry to bother but i have a slight problem with my car could you help me? if you can't no problem then ill just ask someone else.
Guy: So sorry friend but im waiting for someone special.

some hours later the guy is looking suspicious, ''Where could he be?"

some hours after that a collegue came and asked to our friend if he could join the barbecue.
Guy: No, sorry pal not today im waiting for someone special.
Person: Okay no problem catch you later on work.

at the end of the day he stared at the watch and he started to meditate and he asked to God:

Guy: God? Can you hear me? Why didn't you came? I've waited for you and I even set the table for us.
God replied and said in these words: My dearest friend twice i came and you didn't see me.

[Derfel]

That brings up a question, can a wave have a will? Is a wave controlled by something? we always refer to physical laws and powers... but what are they? Why do they exist? What makes or lets them exist? Are the permanent or temporary?