Question on phrase!!!

Keeni84 · Jan 26, 2004, 12:16

How would you say:

When are you not dancing? (Like, a sarcastic response to "I am going dancing again tonight)

This is what my friends thought it should be, but I'm not too sure about it:

いすダンスませにか？

But I thought it would be something like:

いすダンスをしません？

But I think there should be a particle or something between the いす and the ダンス...

ありがとうございます！！！

**Glenn** · Jan 26, 2004, 13:51

How about, "いつも踊ってるんじゃないの？" (Aren't you always dancing?)? It isn't literal, but I believe that it gets the message across. I'll try for literal too, if that is what you want. Hmm, "踊らない時もあるのか" (Lit: Are there times when you don't dance too?). I guess word for word would be "いつ踊っていないのか". Sorry if I confused you with all of the variations, but it took me a while to get to the original sentence. I hope that this is helpful.

Keeni84 · Jan 26, 2004, 15:28

Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you!

ありがとうございます！

**Glenn** · Jan 26, 2004, 15:31

Originally posted by Keeni84
Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you!

ありがとうございます！

Oh, sorry about that. It is pronounced おど・る (踊る).

Keeni84 · Jan 26, 2004, 15:32

Ah, okay! Thank you so much

ありがとうございます！！！

;)

PaulTB · Jan 26, 2004, 15:34

Originally posted by Keeni84
Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you!

ありがとうございます！

As it's in electronic form you can just paste the character into
http://ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1C
check the box marked " limit the search to keys starting with the matching kanji" and click 'Begin search'.

Elizabeth · Jan 26, 2004, 17:39

Or just 踊っていないの？ You aren't dancing?! You could also add なぜ at the beginning to make it "why aren't you dancing?"

Eelco · Jan 26, 2004, 17:41

Another variation might be:

ダンスしないところもあるの? / ダンスしないところもありますか。

(are there occasions when you don't dance?)

or

いつでもダンスするね。

(you are always dancing, aren't you?)

The suggestion offered by your friends:
ダンスませんか。
is incorrect Japanese. The polite verb ます cannot be combined with nouns. (all katakana words are nouns). ます, ません and ましょう are always placed after the ren'youkei conjugation of verbs.

いす (isu) means "chair", I think you mean いつ (itsu): when

PaulTB · Jan 26, 2004, 18:20

Originally posted by Eelco
The suggestion offered by your friends:
ダンスませんか。
is incorrect Japanese. The polite verb ます cannot be combined with nouns. (all katakana words are nouns).

サボ is katakana, サボ (n) [...] (2) sabotage (abbr.) is a noun
therefore there is no
サボる (v5r) to be truant; to be idle; to sabotage by slowness; (P)

There are a few other cases where katakanago has mutated into i-adjectives or verbs - but really I'm just being awkward, in general you are correct.

Keeni84 · Jan 26, 2004, 23:12

Yeah, I meant "itsu". I was typing fast, ha ha.

Eelco--I think your translation is probably what my friends are looking for.

"いつでもダンスするね."

Thank you guys so much for helping me. It seems I've been doing that a lot, lately!

Elizabeth · Jan 27, 2004, 21:08

Originally posted by Keeni84
Yeah, I meant "itsu". I was typing fast, ha ha.

Eelco--I think your translation is probably what my friends are looking for.

"いつでもダンスするね."

I'm not sure it makes much sense, though, since Itsudemo is more like "anytime" than "always."

PaulTB · Jan 27, 2004, 21:37

Originally posted by Elizabeth
I'm not sure it makes much sense, though, since Itsudemo is more like "anytime" than "always."

"いつでもダンスするね."
"[I'll/he'll] dance anytime!"

I'm not quite sure what Keeni84 wanted the /English/ to be.

(ね is always a pain to translate. I don't think ", huh." ", right?" or ", eh?" would improve it ...)

Elizabeth · Jan 27, 2004, 21:49

Originally posted by PaulTB
"いつでもダンスするね."
"[I'll/he'll] dance anytime!"

I'm not quite sure what Keeni84 wanted the /English/ to be.

(ね is always a pain to translate. I don't think ", huh." ", right?" or ", eh?" would improve it ...)

That's what I thinking as well....it just comes off a little more like encouragement to someone who for some reason wasn't dancing when they normally would be rather than a sarcastic response to someone who was dancing too much. Depending too on the intonation and situation in context of course.

PaulTB · Jan 27, 2004, 22:02

Following the grand tradition of such words as おやばか.

How about ダンス馬鹿だね。
( Hmm, got 55 Google hits for ダンス馬鹿
6 for ダンスばか
and 89 for ダンスバカ )

**Glenn** · Jan 28, 2004, 07:58

I just thought of this. If you mean to say "always going out to dance," (as opposed to just always dancing) then I think 踊りに行く (ダンスに行く) or some such phrase should be used.

Elizabeth · Jan 28, 2004, 08:10

Originally posted by Glenn
I just thought of this. If you mean to say "always going out to dance," (as opposed to just always dancing) then I think 踊りに行く (ダンスに行く) or some such phrase should be used.

Maybe odori ni dekakeru. I was wondering about that on the way to work this morning as well, it just doesn't seem pithy or succint enough if that's what was being sought.

Elizabeth · Jan 29, 2004, 21:53

Originally posted by PaulTB
Following the grand tradition of such words as おやばか.

How about ダンス馬鹿だね。
( Hmm, got 55 Google hits for ダンス馬鹿
6 for ダンスばか
and 89 for ダンスバカ )

探していた言葉そうです。いまでもこんな表現の使い方がちゃんとうわからないけど。

たとえば、「ダンスが大好きで才能もあるけれどそれだけの人」を「ダンス馬鹿」と言う風に呼んだりしますか？
または「プロフェッショナルダンス教師をしている友達」に「ダンスバカ」を言っても自然ですか？　

英語の[Crazy/Foolish dancer]というのはちょっと失礼みたいな感じですね。

PaulTB · Jan 29, 2004, 22:08

「_____バカ」は「_____」のことに至極熱心がありま
す。そんな風な人は「_____バカ」を褒め言葉として聞
こえます。例えば、ネコバカ
http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimalPar...kobakatop.html

Not too sure about my Japanese so,

A "____ baka" is someone who is extremely enthusiastic about ____. That sort of person could hear "____ baka" as complimentary. See for example "neko baka".
http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimalPar...kobakatop.html

Elizabeth · Jan 30, 2004, 01:53

ありがとう。　私も日本語で言いたかったことが分かってもらわないと心配していますよ。大体の意味はわかったらいいと思います。

「_____バカ」は「_____」のことに至極熱心がありま
す。そんな風な人は「_____バカ」を褒め言葉として聞
こえます。例えば、ネコバカ

多分人と状況によって違うでしょうね。
私にとって、自分の家族や親しい間のことを言ったりするときですが使えます。あまり知らない人に対して「__ __バカ」などと言うのは失礼になります。

まったく知らない人このような場合に「馬鹿」を使うと常識を疑われるでしょう。

PaulTB · Jan 30, 2004, 02:15

Originally posted by Elizabeth
まったく知らない人このような場合に「馬鹿」を使うと常識を疑われるでしょう。

それはそうだけど、「バカ」と「＿＿＿バカ」との違い
も大事な点だと思います。

Elizabeth · Jan 30, 2004, 21:45

そうかもね。

多分「馬鹿」という言葉は意味が広いので　(stupid, silly, foolish, idiotic, ridiculous, insane etc) 「馬鹿」や「ばかげた」や「ばかばかしい」や「＿＿＿バカ」とかの間の感じの類似は相違より顕著ですけど。

日本語では前後の文はもちろん、その場の状況や雰意気で意味を理解しなければならない場合が多いですね。

Jan 26, 2004, 12:16	#1
Keeni84 Regular Member Join Date: Oct 25, 2003 Location: American (mult/AfricanAmerican) Age: 25 Posts: 133	Question on phrase!!! How would you say: When are you not dancing? (Like, a sarcastic response to "I am going dancing again tonight) This is what my friends thought it should be, but I'm not too sure about it: いすダンスませにか？ But I thought it would be something like: いすダンスをしません？ But I think there should be a particle or something between the いす and the ダンス... ありがとうございます！！！ __________________ 馬鹿も一芸。。。

Jan 26, 2004, 13:51	#2
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	How about, "いつも踊ってるんじゃないの？" (Aren't you always dancing?)? It isn't literal, but I believe that it gets the message across. I'll try for literal too, if that is what you want. Hmm, "踊らない時もあるのか" (Lit: Are there times when you don't dance too?). I guess word for word would be "いつ踊っていないのか". Sorry if I confused you with all of the variations, but it took me a while to get to the original sentence. I hope that this is helpful. __________________ Avoid Mojibake! -- 文字化けを避ける！ Dictionary at Goo - English-Japanese, Japanese-English, Japanese Language Teach Yourself Japanese and Teach Yourself Japanese Message Board Jim Breen's online dictionary and kanji lookup

Jan 26, 2004, 15:31	#4
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	Originally posted by Keeni84 Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you! ありがとうございます！ Oh, sorry about that. It is pronounced おど・る (踊る).

Jan 26, 2004, 15:34	#6
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally posted by Keeni84 Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you! ありがとうございます！ As it's in electronic form you can just paste the character into http://ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1C check the box marked " limit the search to keys starting with the matching kanji" and click 'Begin search'.

Jan 26, 2004, 17:39	#7
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Or just 踊っていないの？ You aren't dancing?! You could also add なぜ at the beginning to make it "why aren't you dancing?" __________________ たとえ辛くても、永遠に続く苦しみなどないでしょう。

Jan 26, 2004, 15:28	#3
Keeni84 Regular Member Join Date: Oct 25, 2003 Location: American (mult/AfricanAmerican) Age: 25 Posts: 133	Thank you! But could you please give me the hiragana for the kanji of 踊??? I am not familiar with this kanji at all. Thank you! ありがとうございます！

Jan 26, 2004, 15:32	#5
Keeni84 Regular Member Join Date: Oct 25, 2003 Location: American (mult/AfricanAmerican) Age: 25 Posts: 133	Ah, okay! Thank you so much ありがとうございます！！！ ;)

Jan 26, 2004, 17:41	#8
Eelco Regular Member Join Date: Nov 8, 2003 Location: Dutchlander Age: 36 Posts: 39	Another variation might be: ダンスしないところもあるの? / ダンスしないところもありますか。 (are there occasions when you don't dance?) or いつでもダンスするね。 (you are always dancing, aren't you?) The suggestion offered by your friends: ダンスませんか。 is incorrect Japanese. The polite verb ます cannot be combined with nouns. (all katakana words are nouns). ます, ません and ましょう are always placed after the ren'youkei conjugation of verbs. いす (isu) means "chair", I think you mean いつ (itsu): when __________________ Japan-Studies.com

Jan 26, 2004, 18:20	#9
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally posted by Eelco The suggestion offered by your friends: ダンスませんか。 is incorrect Japanese. The polite verb ます cannot be combined with nouns. (all katakana words are nouns). サボ is katakana, サボ (n) [...] (2) sabotage (abbr.) is a noun therefore there is no サボる (v5r) to be truant; to be idle; to sabotage by slowness; (P) There are a few other cases where katakanago has mutated into i-adjectives or verbs - but really I'm just being awkward, in general you are correct.

Jan 26, 2004, 23:12	#10
Keeni84 Regular Member Join Date: Oct 25, 2003 Location: American (mult/AfricanAmerican) Age: 25 Posts: 133	Yeah, I meant "itsu". I was typing fast, ha ha. Eelco--I think your translation is probably what my friends are looking for. "いつでもダンスするね." Thank you guys so much for helping me. It seems I've been doing that a lot, lately!

Jan 27, 2004, 21:08	#11
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Originally posted by Keeni84 Yeah, I meant "itsu". I was typing fast, ha ha. Eelco--I think your translation is probably what my friends are looking for. "いつでもダンスするね." I'm not sure it makes much sense, though, since Itsudemo is more like "anytime" than "always."

Jan 27, 2004, 21:37	#12
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally posted by Elizabeth I'm not sure it makes much sense, though, since Itsudemo is more like "anytime" than "always." "いつでもダンスするね." "[I'll/he'll] dance anytime!" I'm not quite sure what Keeni84 wanted the /English/ to be. (ね is always a pain to translate. I don't think ", huh." ", right?" or ", eh?" would improve it ...)

Jan 27, 2004, 21:49	#13
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Originally posted by PaulTB "いつでもダンスするね." "[I'll/he'll] dance anytime!" I'm not quite sure what Keeni84 wanted the /English/ to be. (ね is always a pain to translate. I don't think ", huh." ", right?" or ", eh?" would improve it ...) That's what I thinking as well....it just comes off a little more like encouragement to someone who for some reason wasn't dancing when they normally would be rather than a sarcastic response to someone who was dancing too much. Depending too on the intonation and situation in context of course.

Jan 27, 2004, 22:02	#14
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Following the grand tradition of such words as おやばか. How about ダンス馬鹿だね。 ( Hmm, got 55 Google hits for ダンス馬鹿 6 for ダンスばか and 89 for ダンスバカ )

Jan 28, 2004, 07:58	#15
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	I just thought of this. If you mean to say "always going out to dance," (as opposed to just always dancing) then I think 踊りに行く (ダンスに行く) or some such phrase should be used.

Jan 28, 2004, 08:10	#16
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Originally posted by Glenn I just thought of this. If you mean to say "always going out to dance," (as opposed to just always dancing) then I think 踊りに行く (ダンスに行く) or some such phrase should be used. Maybe odori ni dekakeru. I was wondering about that on the way to work this morning as well, it just doesn't seem pithy or succint enough if that's what was being sought.

Jan 29, 2004, 21:53	#17
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Originally posted by PaulTB Following the grand tradition of such words as おやばか. How about ダンス馬鹿だね。 ( Hmm, got 55 Google hits for ダンス馬鹿 6 for ダンスばか and 89 for ダンスバカ ) 探していた言葉そうです。いまでもこんな表現の使い方がちゃんとうわからないけど。たとえば、「ダンスが大好きで才能もあるけれどそれだけの人」を「ダンス馬鹿」と言う風に呼んだりしますか？または「プロフェッショナルダンス教師をしている友達」に「ダンスバカ」を言っても自然ですか？　英語の[Crazy/Foolish dancer]というのはちょっと失礼みたいな感じですね。

Jan 29, 2004, 22:08	#18
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	「_____バカ」は「_____」のことに至極熱心があります。そんな風な人は「_____バカ」を褒め言葉として聞こえます。例えば、ネコバカ http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimalPar...kobakatop.html Not too sure about my Japanese so, A "____ baka" is someone who is extremely enthusiastic about ____. That sort of person could hear "____ baka" as complimentary. See for example "neko baka". http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimalPar...kobakatop.html

Jan 30, 2004, 01:53	#19
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	ありがとう。　私も日本語で言いたかったことが分かってもらわないと心配していますよ。大体の意味はわかったらいいと思います。「_____バカ」は「_____」のことに至極熱心があります。そんな風な人は「_____バカ」を褒め言葉として聞こえます。例えば、ネコバカ多分人と状況によって違うでしょうね。私にとって、自分の家族や親しい間のことを言ったりするときですが使えます。あまり知らない人に対して「__ __バカ」などと言うのは失礼になります。まったく知らない人このような場合に「馬鹿」を使うと常識を疑われるでしょう。

Jan 30, 2004, 02:15	#20
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally posted by Elizabeth まったく知らない人このような場合に「馬鹿」を使うと常識を疑われるでしょう。それはそうだけど、「バカ」と「＿＿＿バカ」との違いも大事な点だと思います。

Jan 30, 2004, 21:45	#21
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	そうかもね。多分「馬鹿」という言葉は意味が広いので　(stupid, silly, foolish, idiotic, ridiculous, insane etc) 「馬鹿」や「ばかげた」や「ばかばかしい」や「＿＿＿バカ」とかの間の感じの類似は相違より顕著ですけど。日本語では前後の文はもちろん、その場の状況や雰意気で意味を理解しなければならない場合が多いですね。

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