"no you ni" and "da"?

[Mrs. Camui]

Hello!

I've come across with a few problems while studing Japanese on my own. I know that these questions must be so silly... but I still wish you'd be willing to help me. I have more silly questions but i think i'll start with these.

1) what does "no you ni" mean at the end of a sentence. Or only "you ni"?

2) I've heard that "n da" (or something) can replace "desu". Is it true and does it work in every sentence?

Thanks!

[Arekusa]

I'm not quite sure on this, but I think 'da' is a less polite version of 'desu' that is only used by males.

[Eternal Wind]

i think that "no you ni" is "is that so",if i'm wrong pls correct me too:P

[Mrs. Camui]

Thank you for your replies! So, as a female I shouldn't be usind "da". Um, too bad I have already kinda used it... but only with a friend who doesn't know Japanese. Phew!

[beluga]

I don't know if "no you ni" and "no you" has other meanings but I do know that one of it is "like".

Example,
saru ha nin gen no you ni ringo wo araimashita
The monkey washed the apple like a human.

ano hito no kao ha bo-ru no you ni marui desu.
That fellow's face is as round as a ball.

ano hito ha saru no you na kao wo shite imasu
That fellow has a face that looks like a monkey

ano hito ha kao ga saru no you desu.
That fellow's face looks like a monkey

[Elizabeth]

You can use "you ni" (although not just you or no you) at the end of a sentence in the sense of a wish or hope....Shiawse/genki no you ni. I hope you're happy/feeling well, etc. As far as "da" you can always tell your friends that is how a lot of anime girls speak so why not me ?

[Mrs. Camui]

Wow! Thank you beluga! Great examples! Educational... and very funny!
Elizabeth, once again I can thank you, too! I wonder how my friends will react when I tell them that I'm at least equal to Anime girls so I can talk like them. Haha...
It seems so clear now. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with a not-so-bright Japanese learner!

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Camui

Wow! Thank you beluga! Great examples! Educational... and very funny!
Elizabeth, once again I can thank you, too! I wonder how my friends will react when I tell them that I'm at least equal to Anime girls so I can talk like them. Haha...
It seems so clear now. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with a not-so-bright Japanese learner!

To sound authentically conversational, though, you may want to substitute "mitaina" for "(no) youna" and "mitai" for "no you." You ni is mostly used before verbs, but where it is interchangeable with "youna" has more the connotation of as or being similar to whereas "youna" is "an an example of" or imitating. I can't think of an example at work, but will let you know if something comes to mind.....

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

To sound authentically conversational, though, you may want to substitute "mitaina" for "(no) youna" and "mitai" for "no you." You ni is mostly used before verbs, but where it is interchangeable with "youna" has more the connotation of as or being similar to whereas "youna" is "an an example of" or imitating. I can't think of an example at work, but will let you know if something comes to mind.....

How about

貴様のような男は知りたくはないもん！
Bloke's like you I don't want to ****ing know about!

vs.

外人みたいな男がこれを忘れた。
A foreign looking man forgot this.

[Ewok85]

'youna' means 'like', i best remember it "do it like this" (konna youni)

mitai is probably the one word i use the most its very useful but youni is alot better (Thanks Elizabeth, ill try and remember that :thanks

One thing tho, what does もん　mean? Its kansai-ben isnt it?

[Elizabeth]

One thing I have a particular problem with is the construction noun + youna without no. For instance, in the following sentence. To what extent is it necessary (to what extent are there?) that there people like this saying that they have a lot of problems and are depressed, that they need to convince themselves life is not all bad (?) Why not hito no youna?

「心配事が多く落ち込んでいます, 人生悪いことばかりじゃないと自分に言い聞かすしかないですね 」なんていってる人ような人がいまどれくらいいるのでしょう?

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Why not hito no youna?

「心配事が多く落ち込んでいます, 人生悪いことばかりじゃないと自分に言い聞かすしかないですね 」なんていってる人ような人がいまどれくらいいるのでしょう?

If anything it seems that the use of 人ような人 (as opposed to 人のような人) is predominant when it is used with [verb]人ような人. It's only with る人ような人 that I can get higher google counts for the 'without の' version. (Normally it's about 10x difference the other way).

How much that is significant and how much coincidence I wouldn't like to guess.

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

To what extent is it necessary (to what extent are there?) that there people like this saying that they have a lot of problems and are depressed, that they need to convince themselves life is not all bad (?)

「心配事が多く落ち込んでいます, 人生悪いことばかりじゃないと自分に言い聞かすしかないですね 」なんていってる人ような人がいまどれくらいいるのでしょう?

I wonder how many people there are who go and say "When there's a lot to worry about and you're depressed - telling yourself that there aren't just bad things in life is the only thing to do, right?" ?

Would be my guess.

[Edit] Looks like you should disable smilies if you have Japanese + ) in Western European encoding.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by PaulTB

If anything it seems that the use of 人ような人 (as opposed to 人のような人) is predominant when it is used with [verb]人ような人. It's only with る人ような人 that I can get higher google counts for the 'without の' version. (Normally it's about 10x difference the other way).

Yeah, I was familiar with the verb pattern, as well of course as something like (nihongo ni wa) "kono youna" (kotoba ga arimasen). Youna can also be used in place of "toka" or "to iu" under some circumstances that I'm less clear on.
Perhaps closer to "such as" or "in that way, in the way of" than "no youna" or "like, directly mimicing" a particular person or thing.

I wonder how many people there are who go and say "When there's a lot to worry about and you're depressed - telling yourself that there aren't just bad things in life is the only thing to do, right?" ?

Would be my guess.

OK--thanks. Wonder how you could get across my more literal renderings.....

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Yeah, I was familiar with the verb pattern, as well of course as something like (nihongo ni wa) "kono youna" (kotoba ga arimasen).

I'm not sure you've picked up the point I was making. (Although the spontaneous smiliey syndrome probably doesn't help).

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by PaulTB

I'm not sure you've picked up the point I was making. (Although the spontaneous smiliey syndrome probably doesn't help).

I'm not picking up part of the Japanese on my browser at the moment either.

[Mrs. Camui]

Oh, all of those must be great examples... ...but I can't totally read them. I don't know many kanji. Could you please translate the examples into romaji or hiraganas, too?

[PaulTB]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Camui

Oh, all of those must be great examples... ...but I can't totally read them. I don't know many kanji. Could you please translate the examples into romaji or hiraganas, too?

Well my two were
貴様のような男は知りたくはないもん！
kisama no you na otoko wa shiritaku wa nai mon!
Bloke's like you I don't want to ****ing know about!

and

gaijinmitai na otoko ga kore o wasureta.
外人みたいな男がこれを忘れた。
A foreign looking man forgot this.

Don't know that they are great examples though. ;-)

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by PaulTB

Well my two were
貴様のような男は知りたくはないもん！
kisama no you na otoko wa shiritaku wa nai mon!
Bloke's like you I don't want to ****ing know about!

and

gaijinmitai na otoko ga kore o wasureta.
外人みたいな男がこれを忘れた。
A foreign looking man forgot this.

Don't know that they are great examples though.

I actually asked someone about them later and here is her reply.....

「外人みたいな男がこれを忘れた。」は、親しい男の人同士の会話なら自然だと思います。女の人は知らない人 を「男」とは呼びません。「男の人」と言うはずです。「貴様のような男は知りたくないもん」は、不自然な感 じがします。なぜかと言うと「貴様」はけんかをするときに男の人が使う言葉で「知りたくないもん」と言う言 い方は女の人がよく使うどちらかと言えば柔らかな表現だからです。アンバランスですね。

[Mrs. Camui]

Thank you, PaulTB! Makes more sense now! ;)

[lzydesmond]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Camui

Hello!

I've come across with a few problems while studing Japanese on my own. I know that these questions must be so silly... but I still wish you'd be willing to help me. I have more silly questions but i think i'll start with these.

1) what does "no you ni" mean at the end of a sentence. Or only "you ni"?

2) I've heard that "n da" (or something) can replace "desu". Is it true and does it work in every sentence?

Thanks!

I am not sure about no you ni and you ni as i have not leant them yet but I am very sure that da is the plain form of desu, it's just another form that is less polite that desu. And btw, anyone can use it boys or girls, men or women.

[Mrs. Camui]

Great info, lzydesmond! Now I can use da without being afraid. Thanks!

[Eito]

I concur with lzydesmond, the "da" is from the plain form, used in casual conversations and by men and women alike. Let's just say it makes speaking Japanese a whole lot easier when you're around your friends

[d3ntaku]

My first post here, hi everyone
what an excellently produced site...

I think there are a whole bunch of "you ni" type grammar constructs
the most often used:

(I'm including some links to the JGram grammar dictionary, and a lot these examples were written by Paul also a contributor to this thread)



1) like
gaijin no you desu (noun + $B$N(B you)
- a foreign type of guy
ame ga furu you (verb-plain + you)
- a sound like rain falling
-> http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/viewOne.php?tagE=you

2) try to
= shiraseru you ni shimasu
I will try to report
-> http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/viewOne.php?tagE=youni-suru

3) in order to / not to
maniau you ni, isogimashita
= in order to make it on time, i hurried
-> http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/viewOne.php?tagE=youni

4) tell someone else to do something (indirection)
denwa o suru you ni, tsutaete kudasai
= please tell him, (that) to call me
-> http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/viewOne.php?tagE=youni-te

there are a few others, which can be found by a general search on "yo" at JGram:
-> http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/viewList.php?s=you

$B$4Mw$7$F2<$5$$(B

OK!

/dc

[lzydesmond]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Camui

Great info, lzydesmond! Now I can use da without being afraid. Thanks!

don't mention it!

[Mrs. Camui]

I had no idea 'you ni' can also be used as in example 4. Thanks, d3ntaku!