When to use '(someone)+"no koto"' or '(someone)+"no tame ni"'?

[fixelbrumpf]

Can you say that whenever you talk about yourself or someone else as a person, you use (insert personal pronoun or name here)+"no koto" and whenever something is done for you or someone else you use (insert name or personal pronoun here)+"no tame ni"?


私の事が知りますか。 Do you know me?
私の事が怖いですか。　Are you afraid of me?
彼女は私のためにご飯を炊いた。 She cooked some rice for me.

Is this correct? I still find the various functions of the word "koto" a bit difficult to grasp.

[rquethe]

I'm not so sure about being able to use "no tame" whenever you want.

Here's the note from my lesson on it:

A は/がB(のため）にV-て�*げました。

With the note that "no tame" is often omitted when B is considered to be a goal point.

There was some more elaboration on it during class a while back. But I can't remember :/

[Elizabeth]

They are often cases where they are interchangeable, but no tame ni is somewhat stronger in the direction of giving, for the benefit of, or for the purpose of helping. Shinnyuusei no tame ni paatii wo hiraita. We held a party for (to welcome) the new students. Tame no is generally used in describing the use of a noun object or place.
Koko wa homestay students no tame no heya desu. This is the room for homestay students.

彼女は私のためにご飯を炊いた.　

ただし・は、彼女は私にご飯を炊いて・れた。　

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by fixelbrumpf

私の事が知りますか。 Do you know me?
私の事が怖いですか。　Are you afraid of me?

The distinction between shiru and wakaru can still be a little nebulous for me as well, but if you want to say "Do you recognize me?" it would be
私（のこと）が分かりますか？ For shiru probably を知っていますか？ No koto may just be for emphasis here, like "anata no koto ga suki" (I seriously like/love you) vs. "anata ga suki."

And you shouldn't need 'koto' at all for scared, (Watashi wa inu ga kowai, I'm scared of dogs) but it doesn't mean you don't ;).

[Glenn]

Taken from the Teach Yourself Japanese Message Board: You can use the noun koto to clarify the object is the target of an emotion, such as in "Watashi wa kare no koto ga urayamashii." and "Tarou wa Hanako no koto ga suki da."

Also from the same source: "Koto" makes clear a sentence with a two-place emotional adjective. If you are interested, please read the following message of mine...

The "following messge of mine" is two-place verbs and cases (from which the first quote comes), and the thread can be found here.

[beluga]

I think koto is used when you want to explain something about a particular action.
For example,
I play tennis - watashi ha tenisu wo suru.
If you want to further explain that you play tennis a lot. Then you will have to use koto, in which will be "watashi ha tenisu wo suru koto ga ooi desu". Not too sure if the koto in this case can also be replaced by no. What I do know is that you can also say that "watashi ha tenisu wo suru no ga suki desu", which means I like to play tennis.

As for "no tame ni", it means "for the sake of".
Example:
nihongo ga jyouzu ni naru tame ni, issho kenmei benkyou shimasu.
For the sake of improving my Japanese, I will study very hard.

If you want to explain that someone is doing you are favor, you should use te-form+kureta. For example, gohan wo tsukutte kureta. Cooked rice for me. Vice versa, if you want to explain that you're doing someone a favor, you should use te-form ageta. However, you have to be careful in using this form as it would give the listener a feeling that you're snobbish.

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by beluga

I think koto is used when you want to explain something about a particular action.
For example,
I play tennis - watashi ha tenisu wo suru.
If you want to further explain that you play tennis a lot. Then you will have to use koto, in which will be "watashi ha tenisu wo suru koto ga ooi desu". Not too sure if the koto in this case can also be replaced by no.

I believe that "no" cannot be used here. Literally this sentence means "There are many occasions that I play tennis." I think that "koto" is acting as the abstract noun "thing" here and is the head word of the relative clause, and not the nominalizer.

Originally Posted by beluga

What I do know is that you can also say that "watashi ha tenisu wo suru no ga suki desu", which means I like to play tennis.

"No" works better for likes and dislikes because it is more emotive than "koto." It has to do with the nasal sound, from what I remeber reading.