100.000 crimes commited by US forces in Japan

[Maciamo]

Reading "A Modern History of Japan, by Andrew Gordon", I came over the following paragraph.

"In 1960,[...] the American presence amounted to 46.000 troops stationed on several hundred military installations on Japan's 4 main islands, and another 37.000 soldiers in Okinawa.

Local residents detested the noise of these bases and the chronic instances of violence and rape perpetrated by the soldiers. In addition to tens of thousands of traffic accidents, over 100.000 crimes involving off-duty personnel and Japanese citizens took place from 1952 through the 1970's. The majority were incidents of assaults, including rape and murder. Some 500 Japanese were killed in accidents or assaults over these years. Critics were particularily upset because such crimes fell under the juridiction of American military justice."

These are very shocking figures. It is no wonder that (some) Japanese harbour harsh feelings against US soldiers in Japan. This can also give clues on the feeling of the Japanese having to provide help to the US in Iraq nowadays, when they probably feel that it is wrong to station troops in the same way as they have experienced on their soil - but nevertheless have to comply to the US government's whim.

[Anguz]

I'm so bothered by this kind of things. I can't comment more without being nasty. I'm sorry for the japanese that had to suffer those abuses.

[Buddha Smoker]

The good thing is that the military presense has slowly been diminishing. I deal with my the US government with certain aspects of my work in Japan and I will tell you sometimes it can be really annoying and I keep thinking that I am not one of those countless idiots.

Also, I wish I still had the paper from my city hall a while back but had some stats in it.

80% of the crime caused in Japan was my foreigners and 50% of that number(or 40% of the 100) was by US military forces. That's a huge number and people begin to wonder why the good foreigners of Japan have such a hard time....now, I'm too angry to speak for the moment...

[kixot]

I was staying near the Iwakuni base whilke in Japan and was told by some people that lots of crimes were not even communicated to the police because they knew that Americans were never touched by law.
That makes me think about the real numbers.

[Buddha Smoker]

That's true and not true...depends how serious the crime was, I think.

[Arc Light]

heh...you wanna know the probable source of all those crimes? As in what influenced them? I'd bet anything alcohol was a major contributor, if not total. An 18-year-old member of the US Military can get alcohol from anywhere...off or on base. And you can blame lack of discipline while growing up as well.

While I was there, we heard about all kinds of crimes committed by US military, and every one of them involved alcohol and/or drunkenness. It's a shame because there actually are servicemen/women who actually enjoy being there, and we get stereotyped with the drunks.

[Distant]

Originally Posted by Anguz

I'm so bothered by this kind of things. I can't comment more without being nasty. I'm sorry for the japanese that had to suffer those abuses.

I find myself wondering how sorry you would be if America hadn't won the second World War and occupied Japan and Germany? Prehaps you would have been happier under those militaristic and xenophobic regimes? Both of those societies considered people who were not of their race or background, to be completely disposable. At least America prosecutes her soldiers when they commit crimes.

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by Arc Light

heh...you wanna know the probable source of all those crimes? As in what influenced them? I'd bet anything alcohol was a major contributor, if not total. An 18-year-old member of the US Military can get alcohol from anywhere...off or on base. And you can blame lack of discipline while growing up as well.

On what do you base the statement that an 18 year old member of the US Military can get alcohol from anywhere, off or on base?

[RedDrawf]

Until recently I had never given this subject much thought, but I now have a Japanese fiancee and she was raped by two US soldiers about 10 years ago,
so now I feel rage when I see the US military.

[Mike Cash]

Originally Posted by RedDrawf

Until recently I had never given this subject much thought, but I now have a Japanese fiancee and she was raped by two US soldiers about 10 years ago,
so now I feel rage when I see the US military.

That's right. After all, those aren't individual human beings inside those uniforms. They're all rapists.

[Paul-san]

I'm sorry that your wife had to be subject to that type of crime or any crime for that matter. What drives someone to perform such acts has always dumbfounded me. Being a member of the U.S. Air Force and also a past resident of Okinawa while stationed there, I can say that fortunately the poor actions of the ignorant few over the years don't represent the sum of the thousands of dedicated and professional individuals that have served and continue to do so. I was stationed in Japan for 5 yrs, and loved the country, culture, and the people very much. I even was married there. I was there to experience a couple incidents in which a couple U.S. servicemen did something to degrade our reputation, and it hurt me personally. Most of my good friends were local nationals, and to see the betrayal in their eyes when we watched the news broadcast was very unsettling. I actually apologized to them although I had no connection to the act, other than being a U.S serviceman myself. The beautiful part about it was that they (the locals...my friends) actually consoled me. They understood that there is wrong, evil and ignorance in every culture. Unfortunately, not all have a mutual respect for others and themselves. I am proud of my connection with Japan, being an American...and Black-American, and with the Air Force. I also have a 15 year old daughter in Japan that I love and have been unable to locate for years. I keep faith of our reunion daily. She is beautiful...she is 50% Okinawan, and she too is my love connection with that portion of the world. Please don't lay hate on us all. Thank you & God bless you.

[Bob in Iowa]

Originally Posted by Paul-san

I'm sorry that your wife had to be subject to that type of crime or any crime for that matter..... Please don't lay hate on us all. .

Very well stated, Paul-san. As a former serviceman, who also spent five years in Japan, I am also hurt by the actions of any US service personnel who perpetrated crimes against the citizens of our host country.

I also have a very personal connection to Japan. While I was there, 30 years ago, I met a young Japanese lady who became my best friend and my wife. Her family graciously accepted me as one of their own, and I adopted Japan as my second homeland.

Many of us came to love Japan and her people very much. At Yokota Air Base, where I was stationed, classes offered by the University of Maryland on base in Japanese language, and Japanese customs were always in high demand, full of people who sincerely wanted to take advantage of this tremendous opportunity to learn more so that they could better appreciate this fascinating country. The air base was like a small American city, and many military people were there with their families, so the stereotype of the base being full of horny wild young men set to rape and plunder is quite inaccurate.

The notion that military personnel who commit crimes against Japanese citizens are always protected by the US military is also wrong. I knew of several people who were turned over to the local authorities for committing crimes that were, under the Status of Forces Agreement, under the jurisdiction of the Japanese government.

I don't think that any country is devoid of individuals who behave in a violent, boorish, and disrepectful manner, and I think that it is unfair to judge the entire population of US military personnel in Japan by the actions of a relative few.

--Bob

[Kimota]

Originally Posted by Buddha Smoker

Also, I wish I still had the paper from my city hall a while back but had some stats in it.

80% of the crime caused in Japan was my foreigners and 50% of that number(or 40% of the 100) was by US military forces. That's a huge number and people begin to wonder why the good foreigners of Japan have such a hard time....now, I'm too angry to speak for the moment...

I don't know where your city hall gets its information, but just on the face of it, claiming that 80% of crime in Japan is caused by foreigners and that 50% of that is by the US military is ridiculous and just not plausible. That would be a fulltime job in itself for the military.

A lot of people, such as Tokyo's governor, have claimed foreigners are responsible for most crime in Japan, and have been raked over the coals for having their facts wrong.

It also doesn't jibe with and article posted here some time ago.

Crime in Japan

[SkippyDaStudent85]

Originally Posted by Distant

I find myself wondering how sorry you would be if America hadn't won the second World War and occupied Japan and Germany? Prehaps you would have been happier under those militaristic and xenophobic regimes? Both of those societies considered people who were not of their race or background, to be completely disposable. At least America prosecutes her soldiers when they commit crimes.

Yeah... except not. If a gay soldier is attacked or murdered, no one in the military really cares. If a woman in the military is assaulted or raped, same thing. Someone has to complain and complain and complain just to have the matter "looked into", then they have to continue to hound those in charge until any form of charges are made. The lack of faith in the military's "justice system" has caused countless more accosted servicemen/women to not even report such acts because by the time anything is "done" about it, it's too late.

Also, to trivialize what happened to the Japanese at the hands of their American occupiers is just wrong. Surely, no one (except neo-Nazis and anti-Semetics) trivializes the Holocaust. Americans have proven their lack of caring for other nationalities on several accounts, though not as fanatically as Nazi Germany (at least, not yet). Need I point out the prison camps in the US containing German-American and Japanese-American citizens who were detained because they MIGHT have been traitors. Then, once their innocence is proved, America makes little effort to compensate for their actions.

I understand the whole "to the victors go the spoils" idea, but to call any crime less because we won a war is almost as bad as having lost the war to begin with.

Another side thing that saddens me about American relations with Japan is the latest major anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Now don't get me wrong, I believe the attack was completely wrong. My problem, though, is that we felt that the apologies of the Japanese pilots for their part in the attack was owed to us. Once again, I'm not 100% against the idea, but shouldn't we have apologized for using 2 ATOMIC WEAPONS on them, even though we won? Several historians have said that looking back, it was quite possible to end the war without using them. But I guess we will never know...

I'm done ranting for now. *waits for the bashing to begin*

[sabro]

Most members of the US military conduct themselves quite well. However I can imagine that some of them don't. When you have a group of mostly young men, sometimes away from home for the first time in a distant land, some believing they are untouchable, some drunk, some comming off of battlefields and out of jungles...sometimes they get out of hand, sometimes worse. When you have a group of thousands, there are bound to be some bad ones, and some very bad ones. Hopefully most of these thugs, morons, and animals got some form of justice.

Specifically, I don't know much about what US soldiers do or don't do overseas. 500 murders over twenty years works out to 25 murders a year or 2.5 per month. 100,000 crimes is 50,000 per year or 2500 per month. For a highly transient mobile population of about 100,000 soldiers at any one time, including soldiers on leave from Korea and Vietnam, and sailors from ships. Without knowing the total number that came through Japan (an instead attributing all the crimes to those stationed in Japan) it is impossible to know if these numbers represent a high rate or one that is quite reasonable. It is also impossible to know from this what the US military's response was, and how many were charged and how the convicted were punished.

I wouldn't try to minimize the pain and anger of someone's personal experience. Victims of crime deserve justice. No one deserves to be a victim.

I also understand how frustrated the Japanese are when they can't arrest and punish those committing crimes against their own citizens on their own soil. I can't imagine this being acceptable to Americans in the United States. It's almost like having thousands of nineteen year olds running around California, each with diplomatic immunity.

I have one friend that as a nineteen year old sailor, "busted up a bar" in Yokohama and hospitalized a few people back in the 1980's. He spent eighteen months in brigs on ships-- they were supposed to transfer him to San Diego, but somehow he just kept making circles around the pacific. He had to do another 3 months here, and then he was dishonorably discharged. He could have gotten a harsher sentence, but at least you all can know that some of these miscreants do get punished.

[playaa]

This kind of stuff really agrivates me, being I do know this happens ALOT people seem to think that since they are in the military they are entitled privileges, though it carries heavy penalties for the military members involved in such acts as this, it still happens. It gives people that do not participate in these types of things and appreciate the cultures and hospitality of foreign countries bad names/face.. And the locals usually get a certain bad assumption that we are all this way.. I will never understand why.... :/

[babar-san]

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Reading "A Modern History of Japan, by Andrew Gordon", I came over the following paragraph.

"In 1960,[...] the American presence amounted to 46.000 troops stationed on several hundred military installations on Japan's 4 main islands, and another 37.000 soldiers in Okinawa.

Local residents detested the noise of these bases and the chronic instances of violence and rape perpetrated by the soldiers. In addition to tens of thousands of traffic accidents, over 100.000 crimes involving off-duty personnel and Japanese citizens took place from 1952 through the 1970's. The majority were incidents of assaults, including rape and murder. Some 500 Japanese were killed in accidents or assaults over these years. Critics were particularily upset because such crimes fell under the juridiction of American military justice."

These are very shocking figures. It is no wonder that (some) Japanese harbour harsh feelings against US soldiers in Japan. This can also give clues on the feeling of the Japanese having to provide help to the US in Iraq nowadays, when they probably feel that it is wrong to station troops in the same way as they have experienced on their soil - but nevertheless have to comply to the US government's whim.

jeeeezzzuuusssss......i had no idea the figures were that high they seriously should consider giving the japanese authorities jurisdiction over these offenses, thats just plain insulting to think that american troops could potentially get away with much more than if they were charged by a japanese court. makes me ashamed to admit their from my country.

[Bob in Iowa]

Originally Posted by babar-san

jeeeezzzuuusssss......i had no idea the figures were that high they seriously should consider giving the japanese authorities jurisdiction over these offenses, thats just plain insulting to think that american troops could potentially get away with much more than if they were charged by a japanese court. makes me ashamed to admit their from my country.

I wouldn't hang my hat on the accuracy of the figures in the article or on the accuracy of the perception that US military personnel stationed in Japan are immune to prosecution by Japanese authorities. During the time that I was stationed in Japan as a member of the USAF, I personally knew several people who were turned over to the Japanese police after being caught by the US military authorities for commiting crimes in which the local police had jurisdiction. This was done in compliance with the Status of Forces agreement that was in effect at the time.

[DoctorP]

Originally Posted by Bob in Iowa

I wouldn't hang my hat on the accuracy of the figures in the article or on the accuracy of the perception that US military personnel stationed in Japan are immune to prosecution by Japanese authorities. During the time that I was stationed in Japan as a member of the USAF, I personally knew several people who were turned over to the Japanese police after being caught by the US military authorities for commiting crimes in which the local police had jurisdiction. This was done in compliance with the Status of Forces agreement that was in effect at the time.

There are many military personnel in Japanese prisons now for various crimes...in fact the Japanese authorities usually do gain jurisdiction over military members. There is usually a short delay to ensure that the servicemember in question is the correct person though! If a military member is arrested by the Japanese authorities, he remains in their possesion until charged or released. The only time there is a question on turning them over is if the authorities have to retrieve the member from a base...the only reason for the delay is to ensure that the military members rights are not refused.

[ippolito]

I think that if an us soldier drunk as many....when they go out for fun
make phisical injuries to person (japanese western but a person)
is on charge of the local police to arrest him immediately as he will pay in jail of what he did...
I d not understand why for most of americans fun is drink beer gin
whisky etc...what about nice women or a nice film
why on your society the drink is so important...even in the morning.
Driving drunk can be like a killer on the road...do they realize this?
The problem is that, it is real that in many countries drink is important more than other things...but whe we are talking about militars in an
another country they should be an example for the natives...
they should not be aware to go somewere in saturday knights when many soldiers get drunk as always....

[jerry4]

isn't andrew gordon lady d's autobiographer?

[Kimota]

Originally Posted by ippolito

I d not understand why for most of americans fun is drink beer gin
whisky etc...what about nice women or a nice film
why on your society the drink is so important...even in the morning.

It's not. In the morning? What are you talking about?! Don't believe every Bruce Willis movie you see. I think you'll find that Americans drink in the same proportion as people in just about every other country, on average. If you really want to go to a country where alcohol is a central part of society, try Japan. Alcohol and drunk driving laws in America are such that if you have one beer, you're drunk driving, so you'd really have to be nuts to go anywhere and drink, unless you have a designated driver.

Many people go on dates and to the movies. Not everyone spends their night crying into a bottle.

[sabro]

Lots of Americans don't drink at all. Lots of US soldiers don't drink, and most do not commit crimes.

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by ippolito

I d not understand why for most of americans fun is drink beer gin
whisky etc...what about nice women or a nice film
why on your society the drink is so important...even in the morning.

Actually, if we look at the statistics of alcohol sales per country and divide it by the number of inhabitants, we see that the Italians (then the French) have the highest consumption of wine per capita among developed countries. For beer, the heavist drinkers are the Irish, Germans, Austrians and Belgians. For strong alcohol like whisky, the Japanese are first ! The Americans don't rank so high for any kind of alcohol. But I guess it's normal since they can't drink before 21, so the average is forcedly lower than in Europe. However, Americans beat everybody when it comes to soft drink consumption (an American drinks on average 4,2x more soft drinks than an Italian and 10x more than a Japanese).

[Shooter452]

Originally Posted by CC1

There are many military personnel in Japanese prisons now for various crimes...in fact the Japanese authorities usually do gain jurisdiction over military members. There is usually a short delay to ensure that the servicemember in question is the correct person though! If a military member is arrested by the Japanese authorities, he remains in their possesion until charged or released. The only time there is a question on turning them over is if the authorities have to retrieve the member from a base...the only reason for the delay is to ensure that the military members rights are not refused.

THANK YOU!

And it is about time that the nonsense being spouted here was addressed!

The Japanese authorities have had full jurisdiction of felonies committed on Japanese soil against Japanese nationals since at least 1972 on Okinawa, and some time before that on the mainland. Japanese Police on Okinawa would come onto the bases to the PMO and submit arrest warrants. The military authorities were not permitted to refuse those warrants and could only delay the transfer of accused personnel long enough to assert the possible validity of the crimes--in cases of mistaken identification sometimes the JP's could be satisfied that the accused was not the proper perp, but usually to be accused was sufficient cause to detain.

All Americans who do not bear diplomatic passports are subject to Japanese law. They are adjudicated in Japanese courts and languish in Japanese prisons if convicted. During the time I spent with PMO on Okinawa in 1979-80, only three accused Marines I know of were found "not guilty" when taken before the bar in Japan. All the other were convicted. To be a US serviceman in Japan was often sufficient proof to convict in Japanese courts.

I am not saying that these men were wrongly convicted. I worked with Japanese investigators. They are painstaking detectives who present very thorough cases to the prosecutors. They do not grant the accused as many rights as are common in US courts, but the courts in Japan are what they are. Res ipsa loquitur.

My point is that all this talk about the invulnerability of US military personnel in Japan is--by my personal experience--a load of bilge, to be kindly toward those who bespeak it. In short, they do not know what the hell they are talking about. You fill in the blanks for yourself.

The point being, when US personnel are admitted to Japan, they are thoroughly briefed on their status as guests. They are warned to be wary of the authorities and to avoid even the appearence of felonious conduct. They are told that if they act in an inappropriate way, in the opinion of the Japanese authorities, they will get their pee-pees slapped in a screen door. And that is usually exactly what happens.

I do not defend the conduct of some US servicemen. Some ot the acts I have seen are reprehensible, and deserve punishment. In the case of one such act, perpetrated on a Japanese school girl (the phrase itself has become a cliche, but this was exactly the case), the perps are sitting in prison in Naha, unless they have been moved to the mainland. They will sit there for the rest of their lives. It is what it is.

I cannot validate the numbers quoted and I really feel that they seem outrageously high. Still, I have not the evidence to refute them either.