Samurai were predominantly Ainu?

[DaMo]

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf065/sf065a01.htm

THE SAMURAI AND THE AINU

Findings by American anthropologist C. Loring Brace, University of Michigan, will surely be controversial in race conscious Japan. The eye of the predicted storm will be the Ainu, a "racially different" group of some 18,000 people now living on the northern island of Hokkaido. Pure-blooded Ainu are easy to spot: they have lighter skin, more body hair, and higher-bridged noses than most Japanese. Most Japanese tend to look down on the Ainu.

Brace has studied the skeletons of about 1,100 Japanese, Ainu, and other Asian ethnic groups and has concluded that the revered samurai of Japan are actually descendants of the Ainu, not of the Yayoi from whom most modern Japanese are descended. In fact, Brace threw more fuel on the fire with:


"Dr. Brace said this interpretation also explains why the facial features of the Japanese ruling class are so often unlike those of typical modern Japanese. The Ainu-related samurai achieved such power and prestige in medieval Japan that they intermarried with royality and nobility, passing on Jomon-Ainu blood in the upper classes, while other Japanese were primarily descended from the Yoyoi."
The reactions of Japanese scientists have been muted so. One Japanese anthropologist did say to Brace," I hope you are wrong."

The Ainu and their origin have always been rather mysterious, with some people claiming that the Ainu are really Caucasian or proto-Caucasian - in other words, "white." At present, Brace's study denies this interpretation.

(Wilford, John Noble; "Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots," New York Times, June 6, 1989. Cr. J. Covey.)

Comment. Fringe anthropology notes many "white" races in strange places; viz., the white Indians of Panama and the Mandans of the American West.


From Science Frontiers #65, SEP-OCT 1989. ｩ 1989-2000 William R. Corliss

Does anyone else see an inconsistency between this proposition and historical records? As far as I know, the Ainu position was historically more akin to that of the Native Americans than that of the Conquistadors. For them to have been societal elites, samurai and nobles, in Japan seems rather out of line with what I have read about the historical relationship between the Japanese and the Ainu.

[Mandylion]

I'd have to read the whole paper, but you are right, this doesn't jive with what I have read. Doesn't mean he is wrong, but I have better things to do than worry about Ainu - samurai connections.

I would question how he is coming by his info just be looking at skeletons. Maybe you could get some facial features, but skin color? If he is looking at paintings, he should keep in mind that to be white-ish has been fashionable in Japan for a very long time. The artists who were either commissioned or offered paintings to those in the elite are going to be prone to a bit of brown-nosing. There will probably also be the artistic tendency to exaggerate features so that the visual clues of rank/status/occupation can be easily interpreted by the viewer. Japan was not known for its artistic realism. Then we have the problem of which epoch of drawing is he looking at? Samurai of the 1700's have little relation, or bearing on much of anything at all. Being a samurai was not even a hereditary thing until after Hideyoshi made it so in the late 1500's...

I hope the good doctor is not basing his argument only on bones and pictures...

Could be scholars in Japan are not excited by this because no one think it is either good research, is printed in Japanese, or really cares. What does this change in the historical record?

Man, I'm suspicious having only read the abstract! Sounds like someone is up for tenure, if you know what I mean...I'm more than ready to give him a fair shake. He can post the full article on JREF and we can all have a read

[DaMo]

I wonder how he got so many intact samurai bones too. I heard that the samurai were cremated in Buddhist tradition, not buried.

Also, wasn't the title "Shogun" a reference to the conquerors of the Ainu?

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0845003.html

The title itself, Sei-i-tai Shogun [barbarian-subduing generalissimo], dates back to 794 and originally meant commander of the imperial armies who led the campaigns against the Ainu in N Japan.

Considering how the Ainu were historically displaced and subjugated by the Japanese, I think it is strange that anyone would posit them as being the upper-class or the war elites of the Japanese.

[Mandylion]

Well said sir..

[TwistedMac]

i'll take this with the grain of salt i would take if a scientist told me my ancestral vikings were infact arabs....

[Haivart]

I did some digging and found that Dr. Brace is considered an expert on bone measurements and human evolution-- so he has credentials. Apparently a lot of his life's work (he's in his 70's) has been tracing the origin of the Native American peoples. I disagree with this theory, but he's not a crackpot. (and don't get me started on the guy from Harvard who preaches that the Indus civilization was illiterate)

[DaMo]

Originally Posted by TwistedMac

i'll take this with the grain of salt i would take if a scientist told me my ancestral vikings were infact arabs....

Well, I dunno about claiming Vikings to be Arab, but there are those who claim that some of the Vikings were black Africans.

http://www.nok-benin.co.uk/Ntext/Europae.txt

More salt, sir?

[bossel]

Originally Posted by DaMo

Well, I dunno about claiming Vikings to be Arab, but there are those who claim that some of the Vikings were black Africans.

http://www.nok-benin.co.uk/Ntext/Europae.txt

More salt, sir?

Well, it's possible though not really probable. The Romans are said to have stationed a military unit comprised of black Africans in Northern England for a while (I think at the beginning of the 3rd century AD).
The Vikings reached Northern Africa themselves, for what I know.

If you believe some people all major early civilisations were originally black African:
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bi...rames/read/481

Coming back to the Samurai, they should have been partially black (African), too:
http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/east.html

Quote:
"A Japanese proverb states that: "For a Samurai to be brave, he must have a bit of Black blood." Another recording of the proverb is: "Half the blood in one's veins must be Black to make a good Samurai." Sakanouye Tamura Maro, a Black man, became the first Shogun of Japan."

Well...

[mad pierrot]

I've got a pair of magic boots to sell you!

[Ryan]

Well, if any of the hair was still intact on any of the bones the good doctor collected then he would have been able to tell quite a bit. In fact the only thing that cannot really be told from a strand of hair is sexual gender (that alone is easily distinguishable in skeletons using pelvis size). I don't know anything about Japanese history or culture (I'm a chinese major), but would this really cause that big of a deal?

[lexico]

Dr. C. Loring Brace and the Samurai......Movies

Quote: "the revered samurai of Japan"

I find this a problem. Didn't the average samurai start out as a mercenary; a man with battle tactics under his belt seeking employment under a worthy lord wealthy enough to pay out his salary for services rendered? High-ranking officers no doubt excercised certain power and enjoyed prestige, however limited. Yet the hereditary nature of the occupation was more of a social norm appied to all Japanese families, not because the Samurai were of noble blood in the first place. Quite often, impoverished Samurai families continued the family tradition more out of necessity than honor or prestige. The Samurai code of honor seems to have appeared as a later development as a means for the mighty and affluent to continue to excercise control over hired swords.
The Meiji Emperor, as well as his non-Samurai subjects, looked down upon Western carriages with disdain because the horse that pulled the carriage were distasteful. They were distasteful because the horse was often associated with the not-so-noble two-swords, the Samurai, who mounted them.
So, why is it that Dr. C. Loring Brace presumes that the Samurai were revered? Perhaps, instead of hitting the history books as he should have, he was reading one too many Samurai fiction, or rather getting his tunnel vision from watching too many Samurai movies? To me Dr. C. Loring Brace is another sad case of an amateur historian suffering from historical illteracy. Unlike the case of the controversial Horse rider theory that lapsed with a struggle, his is one to fade quietly without scholary debate.

[bruto]

I lived in Aomori-ken for 4 years and knew two men (and their families) who were descendants of Samurai. They were both wide boned, slightly taller than average, and had high cheekbones. If anything, they more resembled true Mongolians than Ainu.

I'm not sure what Mr. Brace is using as his Samurai comparision model.

I find more probable his claim that the royal bloodline is mixed with Ainu. There is likely some caucasian mix from long ago, Ainu or otherwise.

[bruto]

One more thing:

The author (although not necessarily Mr. Brace) starts with the outdated assumption that Japanese consider themselves of pure stock:

"Findings by American anthropologist C. Loring Brace, University of Michigan, will surely be controversial in race conscious Japan."

I've lived here off and on for over 22 years, and not once have I encountered a learned person of this belief. Most educated Japanese I've spoken with accecpt that the population of their islands were supplemented by multiple migrations, the well known Korean / Mongolian of course, but also Southern and Western Chinese, and Malayo-Polynesians.

[Maciamo]

This article is worth closer attention.

First, let us not be stupid and think that the whole samurai class was descended from a unique race. Please read this short history of the samurai. The samurai class only appeared during the Heian Period (794-1185) and were basically mercenaries, with some of them recruited among farmers.

As the very first samurai were recruited to fight th Ainu in Northern Honshu, I believe it is possible that some Ainu may have :
1) defeated some samurai, taken their weapons and pretended being samurai themselves (for the pay, or to avoid being killed later). Or alternatively, some Ainu were very intelligent and successfully pretended to be samurai to avoid being killed or discriminated against (could that strange errant guy in Kurosawa's movie The Seven Samurai be an Ainu who managed to pass for a Samurai and slowly became accepted as one ?).
2) raped or intermarry with Japanese women, whose descendants may have become samurai in Northern Honshu (not knowing about their own Ainu origins)
3) On the contrary, Japanese samurai have surely raped many conquered Ainu women, and may have taken a few as wives or concubines, which explains the partially Ainu blood of their descendants.
4) some defeated Ainu were eventually recruited as samurai themselves (like in the movie The Last Samurai).

It is anyway undeniable that the early samurai (who didn't have the elaborate armour and bushido code, nor the class recognition that all appeared later) had very close and frequent contacts with the Ainu, which can only increase the chances of the abobe-mentioned occurances.

It is therefore possible that a few of these early samurai had Ainu blood, and later, when the samurai class became dominant, spread their genes much more "profusely" than the average, poor Japanese farmers.

It would be interesting to compare the fate of the Ainu to that of the Celtic people in Europe. The Celts once controlled an area spreading from Spain to Central Europe, via France, Belgium, Britain, Ireland and North Italy. However, the Celts were conquered by the Romans and forced to speak Latin, intermarry with the Romans and adopt Roman customs. After came the Germanic tribes who invaded all the Western Roman Empire. Although these tribes adopted Latin as an official language (except in England), they became the dominant class in all these countries and mixed with the local Celto-Romans.
But some areas remained predominantly Celtic, like North-Western Spain (Galicia, Asturias...), little Brittany in France, and Wales, Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands in Britain. With time, they all came to speak Spanish, French and English with only very few people still speaking Gaelic and practising Celtic customs nowadays (Wales was the most successful to preserve its culture). However, these people mixed very little with the "invadors" and retain most of the Celtic genes to this day, although they are completely integrated to their country's society and they might not know themselves about their Celtic roots.

Many of these Celts (especially from Britain and Ireland) migrated to America, where they once again adopted the local culture, language and customs. Interestingly, these Irish and Scottish migrants have become among the most successful Americans, with a sizeable proportion controlling the country. Just see all the name in "MacSomething" (MacDonald, MacAlister, etc.), and all the Irish presidents or famous politicians (Kennedy, Reagan, Nixon, Kerry...). An estimated 45 million American have Irish roots (don't know of Scottish or Welsh), and about half of the Australians can also claim Irish or Scottish ancestors (with many only partly Irish/Scottish of course, due to intermarriages). So, although the Celts have lost most of their language and culture, they have survived and well in modern society. Could it be the same with the Ainu, to a much lower extent ? Some Japanese do look different (slightly more Caucasian) than other Mongoloid people. For example Abe Hiroshi (who we often see in TV commercials) :

[canadian_kor]

Originally Posted by Maciamo

This article is worth closer attention.

First, let us not be stupid and think that the whole samurai class was descended from a unique race. Please read this short history of the samurai. The samurai class only appeared during the Heian Period (794-1185) and were basically mercenaries, with some of them recruited among farmers.

As the very first samurai were recruited to fight th Ainu in Northern Honshu, I believe it is possible that some Ainu may have :
1) defeated some samurai, taken their weapons and pretended being samurai themselves (for the pay, or to avoid being killed later). Or alternatively, some Ainu were very intelligent and successfully pretended to be samurai to avoid being killed or discriminated against (could that strange errant guy in Kurosawa's movie The Seven Samurai be an Ainu who managed to pass for a Samurai and slowly became accepted as one ?).
2) raped or intermarry with Japanese women, whose descendants may have become samurai in Northern Honshu (not knowing about their own Ainu origins)
3) On the contrary, Japanese samurai have surely raped many conquered Ainu women, and may have taken a few as wives or concubines, which explains the partially Ainu blood of their descendants.
4) some defeated Ainu were eventually recruited as samurai themselves (like in the movie The Last Samurai).

It is anyway undeniable that the early samurai (who didn't have the elaborate armour and bushido code, nor the class recognition that all appeared later) had very close and frequent contacts with the Ainu, which can only increase the chances of the abobe-mentioned occurances.

It is therefore possible that a few of these early samurai had Ainu blood, and later, when the samurai class became dominant, spread their genes much more "profusely" than the average, poor Japanese farmers.

It would be interesting to compare the fate of the Ainu to that of the Celtic people in Europe. The Celts once controlled an area spreading from Spain to Central Europe, via France, Belgium, Britain, Ireland and North Italy. However, the Celts were conquered by the Romans and forced to speak Latin, intermarry with the Romans and adopt Roman customs. After came the Germanic tribes who invaded all the Western Roman Empire. Although these tribes adopted Latin as an official language (except in England), they became the dominant class in all these countries and mixed with the local Celto-Romans.
But some areas remained predominantly Celtic, like North-Western Spain (Galicia, Asturias...), little Brittany in France, and Wales, Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands in Britain. With time, they all came to speak Spanish, French and English with only very few people still speaking Gaelic and practising Celtic customs nowadays (Wales was the most successful to preserve its culture). However, these people mixed very little with the "invadors" and retain most of the Celtic genes to this day, although they are completely integrated to their country's society and they might not know themselves about their Celtic roots.

Many of these Celts (especially from Britain and Ireland) migrated to America, where they once again adopted the local culture, language and customs. Interestingly, these Irish and Scottish migrants have become among the most successful Americans, with a sizeable proportion controlling the country. Just see all the name in "MacSomething" (MacDonald, MacAlister, etc.), and all the Irish presidents or famous politicians (Kennedy, Reagan, Nixon, Kerry...). An estimated 45 million American have Irish roots (don't know of Scottish or Welsh), and about half of the Australians can also claim Irish or Scottish ancestors (with many only partly Irish/Scottish of course, due to intermarriages). So, although the Celts have lost most of their language and culture, they have survived and well in modern society. Could it be the same with the Ainu, to a much lower extent ? Some Japanese do look different (slightly more Caucasian) than other Mongoloid people. For example Abe Hiroshi (who we often see in TV commercials) :

Interesting analysis Maciamo. I have to agree with you, though, that one cannot say that the samurai were from a single racial group. Human nature takes on its role as different people encounter each other. I'm sure as the Tungusic/Yayoi mongoloids samurais marched up northward they raped or intermarried with the Ainu females.

That Brace guy from National Geographic, however, is totally off the mark. The samurai culture developed from the Tungusic/Paekche/Yayoi culture that was predominant before the middle ages. Even though some Ainu became samurai, the majority of them were Tungusic mongoloids.

In regards to the racial makeup of modern Japanese, I heard it was like 10:2 (Tungusic/Yayoi:Ainu/Polynesian/Jomon). With slight variations in the ratio, of course. A good example is if you look at the faces of Tunguses of Siberia of today they look markedly different from modern Japanese (the latter having less pronounced Mongoloid features). It's a complex subject and more research needs to be done to get a definite fix on where the Japanese stand racially and linguistically.

P.S. Btw, for those of you who do not know who the Ainu in the Last Samurai is, it is the old hairy swordmaker seen in the background in some of the scenes in the village.

[senseiman]

The two great Samurai clans that rose to prominence during the Heian period, the Taira and the Minamoto, both came from eastern Japan where they fought and lived with the Ainu. The two clans were direct offshoots of the imperial family so there isn't much question of their ethnic origins but it seems entirely possible that many of them would have intermarried with the ainu.

In pre-Heian times the Ainu (or Emeshi) lived in western Japan as well and there are records of them in the Nihongi as being fierce warriors. Many of them are recorded to have pledged loyalty to the Yamato Emporer.

Its probable that there was some blood in the Samurai class, but it is pretty ridiculous to say that they all came from one racial group.

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

A samurai is job classification, a classification according to rank, and it is not a racial classification.
As for the Heian era, Ainu surely lived in West Japan.
A name of a famous river of Shikoku is Ainu language.
Shimanto River
The great-grandfather before my 3 generations was a samurai.
I think that I do mixed blood.

[miles7tp]

Maciamo wrote :

As the very first samurai were recruited to fight th Ainu in Northern Honshu, I believe it is possible that some Ainu may have :
1) defeated some samurai, taken their weapons and pretended being samurai themselves (for the pay, or to avoid being killed later). Or alternatively, some Ainu were very intelligent and successfully pretended to be samurai to avoid being killed or discriminated against (could that strange errant guy in Kurosawa's movie The Seven Samurai be an Ainu who managed to pass for a Samurai and slowly became accepted as one ?).
2) raped or intermarry with Japanese women, whose descendants may have become samurai in Northern Honshu (not knowing about their own Ainu origins)
3) On the contrary, Japanese samurai have surely raped many conquered Ainu women, and may have taken a few as wives or concubines, which explains the partially Ainu blood of their descendants.
4) some defeated Ainu were eventually recruited as samurai themselves (like in the movie The Last Samurai).

Why did you use the word "rape"?
Do you like "rape"?
I am sure that you intentionally give many people the impression that Japanese are the people loving to rape.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by miles7tp

Why did you use the word "rape"?
Do you like "rape"?
I am sure that you intentionally give many people the impression that Japanese are the people loving to rape.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

In case of war, like the that of the Yamato Japanese vs the Ainu from the Heian to Edo periods, there were of courses warriors raping the women of the conquered tribes or villages.

[miles7tp]

Your textbook of the world history will be filled with "rape" as much as War.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

デリカシーの無い奴だな。

[Maciamo]

Originally Posted by miles7tp

Your textbook of the world history will be filled with "rape" as much as War.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

So what should they use to describe soldiers (eg samurai) having sex with women of the defeated tribes against their will, once they have killed their husbands at war ? I am not talking about intermarriage, just soldiers abusing women in villages, etc. after looting or setting fire to the houses. This certainly happened in about 1000 years of conflict in Northern Honshu between the Ainu and the Yamato Japanese.

Maybe you have just no idea what I am talking about.

デリカシーの無い奴だな。

You are such a hypocrite to say that I have "no delicacy" then add this smiley . I suppose that for you rape is such a beautiful thing that it should be called otherwise, as Japanese do not commit rape, they are too pure for that, so they just call it "etchi". Is that what you mean ? Are you also one of those people who watch "rape simulation AV" and agree with the politician who said that gang rape is virile and normal ? What are you trying to prove ?

[Index]

Originally Posted by miles7tp

Your textbook of the world history will be filled with "rape" as much as War.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

デリカシーの無い奴だな。

Rape is rape. It's not about being delicate, that's just what it was. The act is not delicate and so neither is the connotation. I suppose one could say that the soldiers made love to the women without their consent. How's that? I didn't realize yatsu was a delicate term either?

[Index]

Originally Posted by miles7tp

Maciamo wrote :


Why did you use the word "rape"?
Do you like "rape"?
I am sure that you intentionally give many people the impression that Japanese are the people loving to rape.
The historians never use "rape" in this case.

According to some Japanese politicans, it is Westerners who love to rape. Was it not the mayor of Tokyo who publicly said that we should expect the number of illegitimate births to rise after the Soccer World Cup due to the influx of all the foreigners?

[lexico]

Originally Posted by Index

According to some Japanese politicans, it is Westerners who love to rape. Was it not the mayor of Tokyo who publicly said that we should expect the number of illegitimate births to rise after the Soccer World Cup due to the influx of all the foreigners?

How intellectually challenging, if not stimulating on the libido. To think is a mayor effort; but to speak his *errr* mind in public is truly alien to me. Lack of shame ? Of imagination ? Of vitamins & minerals ? Something else with the diet ? Ehhhhh, it must be the truth diet that makes one speak such unspeakable *speechless searching for a word that escapes three modern languages + three dead* ....er... thing ? Too serious to be taken literally, too blatant stewpit to be a joke *speechless again* @_@

[Index]

It's dumbfounding.