HOw

Kenkaku musei · Jun 7, 2004, 08:05

do you tell what the stem word is in a verb or noun or adjective and how can you tell what suffix to add to it.

also how do you know when the stem word is supposed to change.

help onigaishimasu! ^^

**Glenn** · Jun 7, 2004, 10:01

The stem is the entire word up until u for Group I verbs, and up until ru for Group II verbs. Group II verbs all end in either iru or eru, so they're pretty easy to pick out. If a verb doesn't end in either iru or eru, then it is Group I.

Kenkaku musei · Jun 7, 2004, 10:04

Hai but how can you tell what suffix should follow what verb?

**Glenn** · Jun 7, 2004, 10:40

I don't know what you're asking. What exactly do you mean by suffix? Could you give me an example?

Kenkaku musei · Jun 7, 2004, 10:54

ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku

**Glenn** · Jun 7, 2004, 10:58

The stem is kak, not kaki.

PaulTB · Jun 7, 2004, 18:45

Originally Posted by Glenn

The stem is kak, not kaki.

Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

Kenkaku musei · Jun 7, 2004, 21:17

Originally Posted by PaulTB

Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem?

and also when dropping the u or ru off of a word how do you know what ending suffix to use? Is there a General rule.

Elizabeth · Jun 7, 2004, 21:18

Originally Posted by Kenkaku musei

ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku

This Kaku at least (書く）　means to write, not speak. 　

PaulTB · Jun 7, 2004, 21:44

Originally Posted by Kenkaku musei

hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem?

Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from

1. Recognizing the forms.

e.g.
たべない = plain negative
かきます = polite
した = plain past
きませんでした = polite past negative
いけない = potential negative

2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa)

Ichidan
たべない -> たべる

Godan :
かきます -> かく

Irregular :
した -> する
きませんでした -> くる
いけない -> いく

NOTE that there are ambiguities.
For example the example I gave, きませんでした -> くる could equally be きませんでしたきる -> きる. The first is from the irregular verb '来る' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb '着る' 'to wear'.

There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Kenkaku musei · Jun 7, 2004, 22:18

the only thing is i can't read hiragana yet and i also cannot see the charaters because i'm at work. can some one translate?

Angy · Jun 8, 2004, 02:04

PaulTB wrote:

Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from

1. Recognizing the forms.

e.g.
tabenai = plain negative
kakimasu = polite
shita = plain past
kimasendeshita = polite past negative
ikenai = potential negative

2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa)

Ichidan
tabenai -> taberu

Godan :
kakimasu -> kaku

Irregular :
shita -> suru
kimasendeshita-> kuru
ikenai -> iku

NOTE that there are ambiguities.
For example the example I gave, kimasendeshita -> kuru could equally be kimasendeshitakiru -> kiru. The first is from the irregular verb 'kuru' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb 'kiru' 'to wear'.

There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Kenkaku musei · Jun 8, 2004, 09:59

Douzo!!! i'm getting better at this thanks angy anf paul and glen

and i figured out how the grammar book got kaki as a stem. i=the veb inflection. so kak is the actual stem but add the inflection and you get kaki
!!

YAtta!!

**Glenn** · Jun 9, 2004, 07:10

Originally Posted by PaulTB

Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

Yes, I know. In fact, I was almost certain that someone would bring this up. It seems too that he was using two different definitions for "stem," so that was adding to his confusion. I think that the romaji version is useful for foreign learners, at least if only in the initial stages, though.

Kenkaku musei · Jun 10, 2004, 21:30

I figured it out though
it depends on how you take on the meaning of stem. I have been advancing in my stufies and i see now why in some books the "stem" ends differently than explained. it's because the "i" or additional letter is usually an inflection.if you remove the inflection you get the true"stem"

ex. kaku
the stem as shown in the book is kaki

the inflection is the"i"

drop the "i" and you get Kak

which is the true stem

Jun 7, 2004, 08:05	#1
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	HOw do you tell what the stem word is in a verb or noun or adjective and how can you tell what suffix to add to it. also how do you know when the stem word is supposed to change. help onigaishimasu! ^^

Jun 7, 2004, 10:01	#2
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	The stem is the entire word up until u for Group I verbs, and up until ru for Group II verbs. Group II verbs all end in either iru or eru, so they're pretty easy to pick out. If a verb doesn't end in either iru or eru, then it is Group I. __________________ Avoid Mojibake! -- 文字化けを避ける！ Dictionary at Goo - English-Japanese, Japanese-English, Japanese Language Teach Yourself Japanese and Teach Yourself Japanese Message Board Jim Breen's online dictionary and kanji lookup

Jun 7, 2004, 18:45	#7
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by Glenn The stem is kak, not kaki. Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji.

Jun 7, 2004, 21:17	#8
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by PaulTB Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji. hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem? and also when dropping the u or ru off of a word how do you know what ending suffix to use? Is there a General rule.

Jun 7, 2004, 21:18	#9
Elizabeth Regular Member Join Date: Apr 22, 2003 Location: アメリカ Posts: 8,508	Originally Posted by Kenkaku musei ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku This Kaku at least (書く）　means to write, not speak. 　 __________________ たとえ辛くても、永遠に続く苦しみなどないでしょう。

Jun 7, 2004, 10:04	#3
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	Hai but how can you tell what suffix should follow what verb?

Jun 7, 2004, 10:40	#4
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	I don't know what you're asking. What exactly do you mean by suffix? Could you give me an example?

Jun 7, 2004, 10:54	#5
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	ex kaku means to speak the stem is kaki how do you get the stem kaki from the dictionary form kaku

Jun 7, 2004, 10:58	#6
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	The stem is kak, not kaki.

Jun 7, 2004, 21:44	#10
PaulTB Manga Psychic Join Date: Jan 22, 2004 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by Kenkaku musei hai... So how would you recommend finding the stem? Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from 1. Recognizing the forms. e.g. たべない = plain negative かきます = polite した = plain past きませんでした = polite past negative いけない = potential negative 2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa) Ichidan たべない -> たべる Godan : かきます -> かく Irregular : した -> するきませんでした -> くるいけない -> いく NOTE that there are ambiguities. For example the example I gave, きませんでした -> くる could equally be きませんでしたきる -> きる. The first is from the irregular verb '来る' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb '着る' 'to wear'. There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Jun 7, 2004, 22:18	#11
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	the only thing is i can't read hiragana yet and i also cannot see the charaters because i'm at work. can some one translate?

Jun 8, 2004, 02:04	#12
Angy Regular Member Join Date: Mar 14, 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 22	PaulTB wrote: Well like I said I don't use the 'stem' term much. I suppose I worked from 1. Recognizing the forms. e.g. tabenai = plain negative kakimasu = polite shita = plain past kimasendeshita = polite past negative ikenai = potential negative 2. Working out the dictionary form given a non-dictionary form (and vice versa) Ichidan tabenai -> taberu Godan : kakimasu -> kaku Irregular : shita -> suru kimasendeshita-> kuru ikenai -> iku NOTE that there are ambiguities. For example the example I gave, kimasendeshita -> kuru could equally be kimasendeshitakiru -> kiru. The first is from the irregular verb 'kuru' 'to come', and the second from the Ichidan verb 'kiru' 'to wear'. There are plenty of web pages out there on this stuff.

Jun 8, 2004, 09:59	#13
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	Douzo!!! i'm getting better at this thanks angy anf paul and glen and i figured out how the grammar book got kaki as a stem. i=the veb inflection. so kak is the actual stem but add the inflection and you get kaki !! YAtta!!

Jun 9, 2004, 07:10	#14
Glenn 考え中 Join Date: Jan 8, 2004 Posts: 5,544	Originally Posted by PaulTB Meh. Depends on how you define 'stem'. Stem is often used when referring to -ます stem (which I usually call the -ます base). You're obviously using stem to refer to the portion that does not change, but personally I dislike going down that root because it only work in romaji. Yes, I know. In fact, I was almost certain that someone would bring this up. It seems too that he was using two different definitions for "stem," so that was adding to his confusion. I think that the romaji version is useful for foreign learners, at least if only in the initial stages, though.

Jun 10, 2004, 21:30	#15
Kenkaku musei The willing one will know Join Date: Jun 3, 2004 Location: USA Age: 31 Posts: 42	I figured it out though it depends on how you take on the meaning of stem. I have been advancing in my stufies and i see now why in some books the "stem" ends differently than explained. it's because the "i" or additional letter is usually an inflection.if you remove the inflection you get the true"stem" ex. kaku the stem as shown in the book is kaki the inflection is the"i" drop the "i" and you get Kak which is the true stem

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