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Anatomical differences between races?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussions' started by anomouse, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. anomouse

    anomouse 先輩

    Jun 17, 2008
    Are there differences or not?
    I only want evidence that proves or disproves.
    I don't want political correctness here.
    I don't want the "we are all humans, the difference is only skin deep" bullshit.
    I don't want to hear the "superiority/inferiority" nonsense.
    Just evidence!
  2. Tokis-Phoenix

    Tokis-Phoenix 先輩

    Sep 23, 2005
    If we're talking about differences in anatomy, then of course we are all different- its why we look different. We might have the same rights but that doesn't mean that we were made the same.
    But apart from bone structure, there are more differences- for example, certain races have been found to have more or less genetic resistances to certain diseases and cancers etc. For example like this;

    "Three more genes that raise bowel cancer risk, including one affecting only some races, have been identified";

  3. Jitenchakun

    Jitenchakun Professional sushi taster

    Jul 1, 2008
    In case you hadn't noticed, yes there are differences: Scandinavians tend to be tall & fair. Asians tend to be shorter with straight, shiny black hair. We gaijin have noses the size of small automobiles, etc. But the differences are vastly outweighed by the similarities. After all, we share 99.9% of our DNA. How different can we really be?
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Devourer of Souls

    Jun 25, 2008
    I suppose it has a lot to do with diets.
  5. Mars Man

    Mars Man Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    I will likely spend some time on this too, depending on the response I get from the OP creating member on his intentions and thoughts behind opening this the way it has been opened--I really, really wish people would be so much more careful about OPs, we have had a number of problems, really, and not only here in Serious Discussions...but . . .

    Of course we are all human, Homo sapien, and only that--nothing else, period! For that reason we have a big problem. Are Homo sapiens that are different, different? Why, of course they are different...I mean that have been defined from the start as being different, so within the bounds of that definition, they will be held to be different, so. . .

    We have another problem here too. Tokis_Phoenix has diligently brought up some information on gene differences between linages of Homo sapien. But since genes have nothing to do with anatomy in the clinical field of anatomy, (having been responsible for anatonomical build is precluded from such field...that's genetics) it wouldn't be necessary to bring that in under 'anatomy.' So again, the OP is not clearly set.

    So, we can clearly say that we are all humans, and thus we are all the same. We are all different and thus we are all the same. I will rest until further input comes from the OP.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  6. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth 先輩

    Apr 22, 2003
    Regardless of what you have in mind as a distinct race, yes of course there are different genotypic characteristics traceable to population-based evolutionary patterns.

    What else could explain the clear superiority of West Africans (including black American descendants) at the sports of Football, basketball, and sprinting ? The long, lean physique of East Africans, plus other physiological factors, explains their dominance in endurance running. East Asians are excellent divers, gymnasts and skaters. Whites are more naturally suited to endurance aerobic events such as swimming ; top weightlifters and bodybuilders tend to come out of southeast Europe (Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria)....etc.
  7. Kyle

    Kyle 先輩

    Jun 28, 2008
    I am going to have to agree with Elizabeth here. We all should know about the upcoming Olympics on August 8th. I am pretty sure that most of these genotypic characteristics will be proven then. Look at most of the events and who all are in each event. They will normally share most of the same GT(genotypic) characteristics. With the obvious acceptions of those very dedicated and spirited athletes that will break the obvious mold.

    I'm not saying that "these people are going to win these events because they are genetically superior," but I will jump out as far as to say they have the upper hand on the competition because of the way they are built. As mentioned earlier, look at past Olympic results and maybe you will see patterns. Nothing is certain, again, because of the people that are there because of dedication and hard work.

    Just a thought.
  8. anomouse

    anomouse 先輩

    Jun 17, 2008
    Why I started this thread?
    It seems that in a multi-ethnic society, the discussion of racial differences is under political pressure. That's a taboo topic. The idea is that the difference is only skin deep, or only cosmetic, and there's no real difference on the inside. We are all equal, but it doesn't have to imply that we are all the same, say, on the level of internal organs (brains, intestinal lengths, etc)?
    I've read something like "Japanese intestines are longer" in the past thread, I don't know if it's true, but discussing non-cosmetic differences seems to offend people, as if it's implying who is better than who. (Don't know which is better, longer or shorter?) Those who took offence didn't give any specific data that point to the contrary, like comparative autopsies, for example. Without evidence, it's their collective myth against someone else's.
    Observing a difference (at the internal level) is not the same as saying who is better than who. Elimination of racism is good, but equality doesn't have to imply sameness. It becomes annoyance if you try to understand equality that way, because difference seems to exist between groups, if you compare "averages".
    I asked you to put political correctness aside, and wanted to see if people would notice any racial difference.
  9. Mars Man

    Mars Man Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    Therefore, I'd like to point out here, everyone, that the topic of this thread is anatomical differences between linages of Homo spaiens. That makes it very limited in scope and topic, but that's apparently what the OP wants.

    I do not know for sure of any evidence or studies or whatever leading to a negative conclusion on the matter of those living in areas of rice staple social groups having longer intestines than those living in non-rice staple areas.

    However, I do know that there will be diffferent lengths of intestines from individual to individual, with some average, just as there will be limb and digit length from individual to individual, with some average. There will be different intensity of pigmentation from individual to individual, too, for example, but there will be an average.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the Homo sapien is largely a continuum, and thus is not so easily divided into clearly separate groups of uniqueness, but can be divided into groups for classification purpose.

    Now as for the word 'race,' I call it a misnomer, and avoid it. That is because we can say that there is no such thing as race. And, for that reason, we would be looking at anatomical differences between members of classes of linage, as per the process which Elizabeth pointed out--although we are not talking discussion genetics here, but the results of genetical matter.
  10. Goldiegirl

    Goldiegirl Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2006
    In forensics there are many ways in which they can tell the "race" of a person....the brow ridge, the shape of the skull, the length of the nasal bones etc...so yes, although we are all human, there are specific differences of physical structure that do make us different, not better or worse! :)

    ASHIKAGA もちもちした食感

    Feb 19, 2008
    So, are we supposed to list all the anatomical differences between all the races and go over the items on that list one by one?

    I do understand where the OP is coming from regarding the ever-so-PC society insisting that it is "wrong" to even insinuate that we are different, and, I am sorry if I am wrong, I get the impression that that the OP wanted to make a point on that by starting this thread rather than to disscuss....say, which race has the longer intestines and the reason behind it, etc.

    After the last post by Goldiegirl, I don't know what more to say.
  12. anomouse

    anomouse 先輩

    Jun 17, 2008
    I'm interested in people's views, is it a commonly accepted idea to just believe there's no difference at all on the inside? It seems that people can't talk about difference without confusing it with a racial hierarchy. (legacy of social Darwinism) and it's easier to just a say there's no difference at all. Observations may be compromised to a certain extent by their preconceived political views.

    ASHIKAGA もちもちした食感

    Feb 19, 2008
    I still don't understand exactly what you're after here. The OP states that you only want evidence that proves or disproves anatomical differences between races. Now you are interested in people's views. Are you interested in how people would interpret an evidence (a study?) and seeing if others would agree with it, or are you just asking other members to help you locate such evidence for whatever reason?

    Mars Man talked a little bit about the difference in the length of the intestines between groups of people. Is that the type of things we are supposed to discuss or do you mean something different by "at the internal level"?

    As I wrote in my last post, I understand what you are saying about how reluctant the society is about talking about racial differences. Are you looking for people's opinions/views about THAT?

    I could very well be the only one who is not getting it but I thought the theme of this thread needed to be better-defined for more people to join in on the discussion.
  14. theAlphaDuck

    theAlphaDuck Banned

    Jul 5, 2008
    yes we are all different....
    but i think the exciting part of this topic which lizzy touched on briefly is what these mean.
    yes east africans are amazing marathon runners....
    read up about the "thrower and the stick" hunting method that was traditionally used in east africa.
    while you CAN report certain phenotypes such as skin colour, thickness & stretchy-ness, height, ect.
    however to say that someone who is black is going to be better at sports or
    that asian people are going to be better at maths ect. ect. ect.
    is WRONG!
    you may argue.... o but the top 20 NBA basketball players are black...
    this is a question of sociology as apossed to geneology.
    it is no doubt the case that more black kids are actively persuing the dream of being in the NBA... (gosh that sounds racist)
    and most big rock bands are fronted by white guy's.... because most white teenagers wanna be in a rock band.... (sweeping statements here...i know, i know)
    or rather a greater proportion of white teenager compared to proportions of black teenagers want to be in a rock band.
    why did europe run the world for so long?
    because we were the first to create weapons of WAR!
    and use them with effective millitary stratergy!
    sociology in our past has shaped us into what we are today.
    the expectations of our parents and peers.
    as for the weight lifting thing.....
    yes a LARGER preportion of southern europeans have the ideal body shape for weight lifting....
    but that doesnt mean that those same ideal body shapes are not found in EVERY other race...
    as for us being 99.9% the same blah blah blah..
    you don't understand genetics.
    it's about which parts of our code are active...not what is there
    you share 60% of your DNA with a banana.......
    you have the gentic code within you for...
    scales, flippers, gills, horns, fur, claws, multiple apendages (ie. 6 arms)
    it's about which genes are switched on and which are switched off
  15. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth 先輩

    Apr 22, 2003
    It isn't racist at all to talk about differences unless in doing so you happen to reinforce social patterns of black or minority subordination. Unless doing so implies that blacks are "naturally gifted" to the point of being instinctual, animalistic savages. That they are, on average, not as intellectually-oriented as whites, or that they haven't had to work hard for their success. In sports for instance, this would include implying that black American athletes (West African descended) lack any of the "necessities" required to be managers, quarterbacks or hold powerful positions of leadership on professional teams.

    The National Basketball Association and National Track Team are dominated by blacks because parts of Africa has developed gene pools have that tend to favor quick, explosive activities like sprinting and jumping. Specifically, as one predisposing factor, West Africans tend to have a higher proportion of a certain type of muscle fiber than Europeans or Asians. Other sub populations, primarily in East Africa, favor a slow muscle fiber essential for long distance/longer endurance racing. It is a statement of genetics affecting athletic ability and says nothing in regard to the individual's intelligence other than what is read into it by the surrounding culture.

    In America, this is nearly taboo territory. The PC answer is to disregard the obvious biological edges and trace any competitive advantage blacks have achieved to their 'hunger for power,' in short to their environmental disadvantage. It is because sports are one of the only options open to blacks which serves to simultaneously reinforce the racist tendancies that have kept African American ranks sparse in management /coaching etc. nada nada nada...

    Travel to a non-racist culture in Africa, on the other hand, and no doubt witness firsthand the overall joy and pride fans take in their international domination of certain sports scenes. :)
  16. anomouse

    anomouse 先輩

    Jun 17, 2008
    Ashikaga, the topic is in #1. I've been questioned why I asked, so I did the follow-up.
  17. theAlphaDuck

    theAlphaDuck Banned

    Jul 5, 2008
    actually this has NOTHING to do with genetics.
    the human body is an AMAZING thing... because it so adaptable.

    if you sprint alot...you will get muscles that let you to sprint.
    do long distance alot... you will get muscles that do long distance.

    the free diving world record holder is a white woman!
    geneticaly we are all pretty much the same.

    your body will become best at that which you ask it to do the most.
    that is simply a fact.
  18. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth 先輩

    Apr 22, 2003
    Then tell me, please, why are there more elite sprinters from any single of these major West African countries -- Senegal, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana -- then from all of Asia and the white populations of the world put together ? If you can handle that without reference to genetics, continue with why a white, Asian or East African has never run the 100 meter dash in less than 10 seconds ? Thank you.
  19. theAlphaDuck

    theAlphaDuck Banned

    Jul 5, 2008
    your body becomes good at what you ask it to do....

    SO... if from an early age you are running and sprinting.....
    that is what you become VERY good at...
    and if you grow up in a country where you are too poor to afford toy's and don't watch telly..... what do you do with your time?

    RUN around with your mates... playing had/catch/tag ect.

    as i said... it has MORE to do with social demographics than anything else.

    tho why there are not so many asian sprinters could probably have something to do with the fact that on the most part they have short legs :p

    your skeleton is THE only part of your body that does not adapt.
    everything...from internal organs to muscles to skin to eye's to hair to the brain is fully ADAPTABLE

    its kinda the reason why we are the top dog on this planet...that and those nifty thumbs of ours.

    if black men are predisposed to being more athletic why has the worlds strongest man alway's so far been white?

    if asian pearl divers are genetically predisposed why is the world champion free diver white?

    the reasons for the sterotypes you talk of...as i have stated are related to sociology.... NOT biology.
    that much is fact.

    it's not MY fact... its just science fact.

    and for your info... plenty of white atheletes can run 100m in under 10 seconds...
    and the first person to run a mile in under 4 minutes was white...not from east africa.

    as i said it's sociology...
    NOT biology.
  20. Mars Man

    Mars Man Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    I will ask here, that we stay on topic--anatomical differences between linages. If that means that the thread eventually settles down to the bottom of the pool, so be it.
  21. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth 先輩

    Apr 22, 2003
    Really, who ? The fastest like 200 + times I believe are all blacks...most likely of West African origin. They simply have a higher proportion of a muscle gene, among other physiological advantages, that has evolved to faciliate speed at fleeing from enemies or hunting game animals.

    So that the highest rank Kenyan (East African=greater genetic interbreeding with whites/Arabs, etc), although this population dominates in long-distance events and have even "longer legs," than their Western counterparts is 5,000th or something on the 100 m list.
  22. theAlphaDuck

    theAlphaDuck Banned

    Jul 5, 2008
    ok look i'm going to do my best to stay on topic here....
    but just for your information yer average human is just about the slowest, weakest, and most defensless animal in the world...
    there is nothing that COULD kill a man (I.E. lions and tigers and bears...oh my!)
    that ANY man can out run...by far
    there is nothing that could KILL a man that ANY man could out jump, or out fight.
    thus a Darwinian evolution to run faster or be stronger REALLY does not come to much.
    humans have hunted in the past with the one thing they have that is FAR beyond any other land living animal.
    I.E intelligence, communication, and tools
    thus the things that are different between linages are the things that you can see...
    and the obvios results that you can draw from this.
    asians have different eye's to caucasians
    tend to be shorter (tho one of the worlds largest people is chinese)
    black people have AFRO hair...
    it's pretty much what you see...is what you get
    and it really doesn't get much deeper than that...
    i'm probably the most un PC person i know (i still call my black friends "oi darky".....in the nicest possible way)
    but in the words of Someone or something
    and this is true
    and i'm afraid to say that it REALLy only goes skin deep.
    sorry to disapoint some of you out there but that is just fact.
    tho i do wonder.... is the 6 muscle thing i hear about japanese girls REALLY true?
    or is that just a myth??
    The DUCK
    oh and by the way
    Patrick Johnson did 100m in 9.93

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