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Comfort Women What do you think?

Which side do you believe regarding the "Comfort Women" issue?


  • Total voters
    72
Are we still discussing issues with 'comfort women?' Can we please get on topic?

Thank you very much.

diceke, why don't you stop bickering with folks. :eek:
 
I usually hate using comparisons because in this case the situations are very different but in this case a precedent was made when the US Government paid reparations to Japanese families in compensation for their internment during WWII in the US. President Regan apologized and the government paid $1.2 billion dollars and this was in 1988.
In case you didn't know what a precedent is:

" NOUN: 1a. An act or instance that may be used as an example in dealing with subsequent similar instances. b. Law A judicial decision that may be used as a standard in subsequent similar cases: a landmark decision that set a legal precedent. 2. Convention or custom arising from long practice: The President followed historical precedent in forming the Cabinet."(The American Heritage)

As yourself admitted, the case is so different that it is not even a precedent. No idea why you brought that up. :eek:
 
What resposibility the Japanese govenment is to held? Please clarify it.

Hi there pipokun san !! Yes, I would say that we should view the entire line of thought of that sentence:

To what degree the Japanese government of today is to be held responsible, I cannot firmly determine--my general point of view is that today's government is most largely different from the Imperial government of that day.

To paraphrase it: I don't know to what degree the Japanese government of today is to be held responsible, because in general I see the present Japanese government as not being the ex-Imperial government.

War crime? Well, I'd like to argue--to just go off topic a touch--that war is a crime; yes, indeed. To respond to your question, pipokun, I can only apologize--I simply don't feel I am ready to make any efforts to attach any political or 'politically correct' terms or definitions to the matter. What is a war crime? when war itself is a crime?

Long time no see obeika san !! I guess I'd have to apologize to you too...perhaps I'm just kind of sitting here on the fence, enjoying my beer, dango and the pretty little cherry blossoms. Maybe I could determine a position if I were to look into it more and do a lot more research, but, I just don't have the time at the moment.

I do hope we all can keep it fairly mellow here, though, and as our dear sister, Ma Cheri has reminded us of, stay as close to topic as possible. In pro and con debates--which is what makes debate anyway--there'll always be some antagonistical essence (it just comes with the territory) but I'd hope that we can not let it spill over into attacks on the person debating, rather than on facts/points and counter-facts/points. THANK YOU ALL !! (and it's been a while to have the opportunity to talk with you too, Ma chan)

Carry on !!! Peace !! 👍 🙂
 
Thank you very much. :)

We can all discuss this without getting into pointless arguments.

Interesting question raised about the definition of a war crime. :? But many people don't consider war a 'crime.' But certain acts during war isn't a crime. As I pointed out before, there was a point in time when rape was used as a weapon during war.
 
As I pointed out before, there was a point in time when rape was used as a weapon during war.

Well it isn't that far in the past that rape was used as one method of so called "ethnic" cleansing in the former Yugoslavia.

In my opinion the "Comfort Women" issue was a form of institutionalized rape, condoned by the Imperial Army of Japan.

War crime? ........ when war itself is a crime?

Interesting question, is war itself a crime?

Long time no see obeika san !! I guess I'd have to apologize to you too...perhaps I'm just kind of sitting here on the fence, enjoying my beer, dango and the pretty little cherry blossoms. Maybe I could determine a position if I were to look into it more and do a lot more research, but, I just don't have the time at the moment.

I appreciate your candor and honesty here. Thank you. No need to apologize here, this is a polarizing issue without a doubt.
 
No, I or other Japanese don't justify it. I say it was just a military brothel. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ok fair enough, just because it was a military brothel, does that make any difference to you regarding the issue of the "Comfort Women"?
 
No. It is not differnt from confort women.
Tell me why it was the war crime.

I honestly am not sure if describing the "Comfort Women" issue as being a war crime other than the fact that it occured during WWII.

If it had occured at any other time in history I think it may have or would have been described with the current terminology of "crimes against humanity". Purely based upon the degradation, abuse, rape and murder of women, for the pleasurement of an unwelcome invading force. Also by the nature of which these women were forced or coorced into doing this so called "work".
 
Hello pipokun,

Raping women is always a crime, so far we agree.
It becomes a war crime when it happens during a war and the raping is done by the occupying army. When this happens to a few girls and women, I can call it a very ugly act. But alas, when it happens to thousands of girls and very young women to be raped by the occupied army, I can only call this a dramatic war crime.
 
Raping women is always a crime, so far we agree.

I agree with you as well. I also can not think of a more henious crime than the rape of women and or children.

I also think what disgusts or bothers me most about this issue is the thought or idea that a young woman could be abused and or forced into literal sexual slavery.

I have a 20 year old daughter and I can not even imagine a situation where she would be forced into a situation that these women were faced with, perform or die, or in some actual documented cases, perform and die. I can not right now think of a more delicate way to put it.

I do not want to "blame" the current Japanese administration for what happened, but I do want them to acknowledge that these atrocities occured and for future generations to know that this is what happened in Japan's desire to create a new empire.

Japan "today" is of course not the Japan of WWII, but what happened during WWII is a FACT of Japanese history.
 
Funny how history changes depending on the lens you use to view it with. Strangely enough, some people who live in Japan feel that mirroring the view that right wing Japanese have will make living here easier. Often the arguements advanced about legalities and written proof run circular to what happened, to what many people state happened to them during WWII. I have seen this on another forum where members defend a position of a member who claims he is a liberal, whilst he spouts about the comfort women issue being a blind for women (all he claims) being voluntary paid prostitutes and the legendary 731 unit only tortured death row prisoners. But hey, he's a good old boy, I guess.

I guess I figure that proving something to someone who doesn't want to change their opinion is rather difficult. Remember there are still people holding onto the Iraq war was good opinion too, but at least they don't deny that it happened.
 
In my opinion the "Comfort Women" issue was a form of institutionalized rape, condoned by the Imperial Army of Japan.
During the WWII, the US officially praised the Aussie brothel in the Middle East, because it was highly organised. And the US imported women from India in China. There were other sad stories during the WWII, but I've never heard of any appologies.
So you think the US and other countries should applogy what you call the instutionalised rape.

I have a 20 year old daughter and I can not even imagine a situation where she would be forced into a situation that these women were faced with, perform or die, or in some actual documented cases, perform and die. I can not right now think of a more delicate way to put it.
What are the documented cases?
 
There are a few Japanese who come and argue and a few people given neutral informations in this forum.
All the evidence that was profitable to a defendant was rejected or ignored, just like Tokyo trial.
Do you think that this poll is fair?

Till when do you continue this thread?
And how do you do with a result?
If you are not American, I would think this thread in another way.
If I make a thread "Why Japan doesn't demand apology of napalm bombing and A-bomb bombing from the US?", what sophism will you make?

Raping women is always a crime, so far we agree.
It becomes a war crime when it happens during a war and the raping is done by the occupying army. When this happens to a few girls and women, I can call it a very ugly act. But alas, when it happens to thousands of girls and very young women to be raped by the occupied army, I can only call this a dramatic war crime.
Elizabeth, I'm sorry. I understand you and I agree with you.
In occupied Japan many girls were raped by American soldiers.
If you think of your girls, please think of our girls, too.
I think that you should have started this thread, not Obeika.
It is fair.
 
Elizabeth, I'm sorry. I understand you and I agree with you.
In occupied Japan many girls were raped by American soldiers.
If you think of your girls, please think of our girls, too.
I think that you should have started this thread, not Obeika.
It is fair.

Don't even presume to know where I am coming from on this issue please. I have just as much an axe to grind about what the Japanese Imperial Army did to relatives of mine, both American and Okinawan.

Elizabeth LIVED through this era, not you nor me and her opinions carry much more weight with me than you or any others here, like that or not.

If you understand her position you would realize that the Japanese Imperial Army and it's subordinates were guilty as charged of coercing women into becoming sexual slaves for the Japanese Imperial Army, brothel or otherwise.

Do you think that this poll is fair?

If you think otherwise then start one on your own. I challenge you to make your own poll and ask people what you want to know about this issue. Instead of making ambigious remarks here, state your opinions and start your own thread. Give people the opportunity to "hear" what you have to say. For or against. That is your option.

Each and every person has their own opportunity to state their own opinions, and from the results of the poll so far it is obvious that the MAJORITY of people that posted their votes think that Japan is guilty with regards to the issue of the "Comfort Women".

There are a few Japanese who come and argue and a few people given neutral informations in this forum.

I wrote the poll to get people to get off the fence and make a choice, for or against. There really is no neutrality on an issue such as this. One either believes or doesn't believe, and so far the votes show that the people voting so far, believe the women that are making their claims against the Japanese Government. That much is black and white. Like it or not. Each person is entitled to their opinion, yourself as well.

Elizabeth, I'm sorry. I understand you and I agree with you.

Do you really? Do you know how Elizabeth voted on this issue? If you truly agree with her then you also accept the fact that the Japanese Imperial Army was guilty as charged.

What are the documented cases?

I am not going to repeat myself here, go through and read the connected links about this issue. Women were murdered after they fulfilled their "duties"
You know, no matter what I nor anyone else here writes, you and others will always believe that Japan was never guilty of anything reagrding this issue.
I honestly feel pity for you.

You can not change my mind nor the minds of an uncountable number of people throughout the world, including Japanese people as well, that "know" in their hearts that this is a fact from Japanese history.

Why Japan doesn't demand apology of napalm bombing and A-bomb bombing from the US?", what sophism will you make?

You want to know the "real" reason? Japan lost, plain and simple. Like it or not that is what it comes down to and oh btw that is not a fallacy but a fact.
 
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Comfort Women

During the WWII, the US officially praised the Aussie brothel in the Middle East, because it was highly organised. And the US imported women from India in China. There were other sad stories during the WWII, but I've never heard of any appologies.
So you think the US and other countries should applogy what you call the instutionalised rape.
What are the documented cases?

The Japanese Militairy Police received orders from Tokyo to destroy all evidences of what happened to the Allied POWs or civilians during WWII in the by the Japanese occupied countries. Allmost all papers, documents have been burnt. Just blowing in the wind.
 
Comfort Women

There are a few Japanese who come and argue and a few people given neutral informations in this forum.
All the evidence that was profitable to a defendant was rejected or ignored, just like Tokyo trial.
Do you think that this poll is fair?
Till when do you continue this thread?
And how do you do with a result?
If you are not American, I would think this thread in another way.
If I make a thread "Why Japan doesn't demand apology of napalm bombing and A-bomb bombing from the US?", what sophism will you make?
Elizabeth, I'm sorry. I understand you and I agree with you.
In occupied Japan many girls were raped by American soldiers.
If you think of your girls, please think of our girls, too.
I think that you should have started this thread, not Obeika.
It is fair.

I joined this Japanse Forum, because only this way I can meet young Japanese. I am more than interested how you feel about World War Two. And I can very well understand that such a matter as Comfort Women is painful. It all happened in the time of your grandparents. I can feel that you don't like blaming your grandfathers for these acts. But you are not one bit responsible and in most cases neither were your grandfathers. Only governments and the military leaders (from every country) are responsible.
After WWII the Russian soldiers have raped many innocent German girls.

It seems that girls and young women often pay the bill in any war and in any country. I have often wondered why.

Obeika speaks of his daughter only 20 years old. He would be a broken man if something like the above would happen to her.
That is exactly how you should see this Comfort Women drama; all those poor girls were somebodies daughter. Just try to feel the pain in those fathers and mothers hearts.
 

Quote hanachan:
"Why Japan doesn't demand apology of napalm bombing and A-bomb bombing from the US?", what sophism will you make?"

You want to know the "real" reason? Japan lost, plain and simple. Like it or not that is what it comes down to and oh btw that is not a fallacy but a fact.



This is true. Japan lost. There were high ranking US military officers from WW2 that have said if they would have lost the war, they would have been the ones on trial.
I might take the dissolution of the "american" empire before this (that the a-bombs are a war crime) is acknowledged by the US gov't, let alone appologized for.

I'm pretty sure the usual response to the A-bombs in the US is: "but they helped end the war and saved millions of lives". Both points, that they ended the war and numbers of lives saved, there is serious historical evidence to the contrary. Not to mention that so many US military figures disapproved, including US military commander Dwight D Eisenhower who said:

I voiced to him (Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives.ツ―1945[34]
from the wikipedia article on Eisenhower

Today, the corporatocracy that runs the US/world wants to build so-called "usable" nukes. Now THAT, is something the world would never, ever forgive the US for. (as if there isn't enough already)
 
Obeika speaks of his daughter only 20 years old. He would be a broken man if something like the above would happen to her.

I agree to this opinion.
Therefore I wonder.
Why did not the Korean parents appeal for abduction?
More than 40 years, why did nobody know Comfort Women?
Why are not there rumor and a record in those days?
I cannot understand me at all.
Why do not you do the answer that can understand me about this doubt?

By the way,
It is illegal to judge about a past case by existing law.
 
I agree to this opinion.
Therefore I wonder.
Why did not the Korean parents appeal for abduction?
Why do not you do the answer that can understand me about this doubt?
.

Hiroyuki san, thanks for your comments here, I can not answer why the Korean parents didn't request information about their daughters, I have ideas but can only speculate.

More than 40 years, why did nobody know Comfort Women?
THe Comfort Women issue was known about at the minimum from the end of WWII. What amazed me was that this issue has it's roots all the way back to the late 1920's, not just during WWII.

Why do not you do the answer that can understand me about this doubt?

It is the first time you are asking anyone to "understand you" about the doubt. Does it bother you, even a little that people from all over the world think that this is a fact, and believe the women that gave testimony in regards to this issue?

Why does the government here insist on trying to make it and other issues related to the actions of the Japanese Imperial Army disappear? What benefit is there for children not to know that this happened, when everyone else around the world accepts it as fact?

By the way,It is illegal to judge about a past case by existing law

I never argued otherwise, in fact I agree.

And I can very well understand that such a matter as Comfort Women is painful. It all happened in the time of your grandparents.

Elizabeth, this is what baffles me the most. I accept the fact that I lost many relatives during WWII, I don't hate the Japanese nor Japan, hell my wife is Japanese. All I am hoping for is that Japan and it's people accept their past history, however culturally embarrassing it may be, there is no need for the current generation to feel guilt, however the current generation, and subsequent ones, need to know this part of Japanese history.

If the Comfort Women issue was strictly Japanese against Japanese I am pretty sure one would be able to read about it in a textbook, same goes for the other "major" incidents that occured during WWII.

In my opinion it is because of a misplaced pride many Japanese have or the thought that their cultural heritage could somehow be blemished that they want this issue to disappear.
 
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Hiroyuki san, thanks for your comments here, I can not answer why the Korean parents didn't request information about their daughters, I have ideas but can only speculate.
THe Comfort Women issue was known about at the minimum from the end of WWII. What amazed me was that this issue has it's roots all the way back to the late 1920's, not just during WWII.
It is the first time you are asking anyone to "understand you" about the doubt. Does it bother you, even a little that people from all over the world think that this is a fact, and believe the women that gave testimony in regards to this issue?
Why does the government here insist on trying to make it and other issues related to the actions of the Japanese Imperial Army disappear? What benefit is there for children not to know that this happened, when everyone else around the world accepts it as fact?
I never argued otherwise, in fact I agree.
Elizabeth, this is what baffles me the most. I accept the fact that I lost many relatives during WWII, I don't hate the Japanese nor Japan, hell my wife is Japanese. All I am hoping for is that Japan and it's people accept their past history, however culturally embarrassing it may be, there is no need for the current generation to feel guilt, however the current generation, and subsequent ones, need to know this part of Japanese history.
If the Comfort Women issue was strictly Japanese against Japanese I am pretty sure one would be able to read about it in a textbook, same goes for the other "major" incidents that occured during WWII.
In my opinion it is because of a misplaced pride many Japanese have or the thought that their cultural heritage could somehow be blemished that they want this issue to disappear.

Obeika, I read somewhere long ago that Japanese people can't blame or think bad about their grandparents or parents once they died. Not so strange
because also in Dutch we say; About the death we tell only about the good things he or she did.
But the Japanese people have made it a big culture and think that when you deny what happened it will simply disappear. But there are still victims and eyewitnesses alive.
Nevertheless I can say that I have met very open and modern thinking Japanese, who do admit that the Japanese Army has commited crimes.
Last but not least, I guess that you and I belong to a culture where we learn at a very young age to think for ourselves. We don't let a group or government tell us what we should think. That makes a big difference.
History is where we learn from; never again an A Bomb, never again a war inside Europe. But we all, still have to learn a lot!!!
 
Nevertheless I can say that I have met very open and modern thinking Japanese, who do admit that the Japanese Army has commited crimes.
Last but not least, I guess that you and I belong to a culture where we learn at a very young age to think for ourselves. We don't let a group or government tell us what we should think. That makes a big difference.
History is where we learn from; never again an A Bomb, never again a war inside Europe. But we all, still have to learn a lot!!!

I agree with you here, I have much to learn as well, my father taught me that if there is one day that goes by without you learning something new, however small, then you no longer have the "right" to continue living the life that you have.

In a way, while truly feeling sorry for the people that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not to mention all the other deaths from wars throughout the ages, if the US had not dropped the atomic bombs and the devastation not "felt" people, governments, would never know the true horror of these weapons. I also feel that issues like the comfort women one can also be used as a teaching tool to educate people about the horror's of crimes like this as well.

This board is very lucky to have a member such as you participating here. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experiences. Have a great weekend.:)
 
Obeika, you can find tons of info about the issue in the Asian
Women's Fund.
Of course, it includes the victor's documentation in the US. Esp., in the 5th volume, which contains the US document.
窶佚ヲ5ナ?ツェ(5.18M)

It is very dangerous idea, victor & loser, for it cannot explain anything, wartime & women.

Indian and Chinese women were willing to go to China to serve the US soldiers then?
Did Japan & the US or I should say the UN fight in the Korean war? How do you explain Japanese or Korean women who died there.
How do you explain the US brothels in Vietnam, Okinawa and other parts of Japan to your daughter?
Do you say everything was the war crime as you describe? If not, what is the difference?
 
Obeika said:
You want to know the "real" reason? Japan lost, plain and simple. Like it or not that is what it comes down to and oh btw that is not a fallacy but a fact.
The US lost in Vietnam, and they still has not fully acknowledged nor compensated for their crimes. Haha.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/03/06/vietnam.us.orange/index.html
http://www.boston.com/news/world/as...s_makes_grant_to_help_vietnam_dioxin_cleanup/
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How do you explain the US brothels in Vietnam, Okinawa and other parts of Japan to your daughter?
Do you say everything was the war crime as you describe? If not, what is the difference?

Let's take the issue back to the late 1920's, how do you explain the Comfort Women issue to your children, if you are fortunate enough to have them?
Are you going to lie and tell them it didn't happen or are you going to be honest and tell them that in Japanese history the Japanese people raped and murdered women for the sexual satisfaction of it's army.

I will say this when you can come here and admit that the Japanese Imperial Army is guilty as charged in regards to the "Comfort Women" issue I will tell you with all honesty how I educate my children about both of their heritages, American and Japanese,


The US lost in Vietnam, and they still has not fully acknowledged nor compensated for their crimes. Haha.

:) :) Wow I am glad to see that you read about history. Geez thanks for telling us the US lost in VietNam. (serious rolling of the eyes here)

:giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle: :giggle:

Wow I never knew that you even knew that the US fought in Viet Nam. Geez, I should give you credit for doing a bit of research.

Great off topic post here.
 
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