- 8 Aug 2005
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I don't often make new threads, but I'm a little surprised this hasn't appeared on the forums yet.
Some background, I find this interesting but you can skip it if you want
Although the house that peacocking built had collapsed, these guys haven't gone away, and there are still many men out there desperate enough to spend their money to learn how to approach women. It seems that the "teachers" that still offer these workshops come from the less scrupulous schools of pick-up artistry. Namely, the ones who actively and admittedly objectify women, degrading them in the hopes that it'll trigger a favorable response. Owen Cook (AKA Tyler Durden, the aforementioned sociopath) started a company called Real Social Dynamics (RSD), offering PUA workshops for about $3,000 a head. One of his associates is Julien Blanc.
This video popped up on my Facebook feed a couple weeks back, and I've since seen a deluge of posts and articles on this guy and his tactics (for lack of a better word). I've been collecting links as they've appeared, so I could share them somewhere. The original video that garnered attention was put together by a Japanese youtuber (msdoom99), who took Blanc's own clips and added Japanese subtitles so people in Japan could see what he's saying about Japan and Japanese girls. It's pretty vile. There's even footage of him accosting women in clubs, on the street, and even a convenience store clerk.
Blanc pretty much embodies the most misogynist aspects of The Game, choking women, forcing their heads to his crotch, and berating them publicly. In the video, he brags to a room of hopeful players about how easy it is for him to get laid in Japan through his forceful means, and encourages them to do the same.
Here's some images of him with his hands around women's necks. In the photos he's repeating the same gesture as he does something inappropriate, which was described by Strauss as a technique designed to elicit a Pavlovian response that "this is a good thing, this is okay." He knows this is NOT okay, and to me the gesture is an admission of guilt.
He's posted the following chart on domestic abuse with the caption "might as well be a checklist"
After the subtitled video was released by msdoom99, a woman in DC started a petition for venues to cancel RSD's workshops and for their web servers to take down their material:
Sign the Petition
Buzzfeed picked up the story on November 3rd
American Pick-Up Artist Who Teaches Manipulative Techniques Faces Australian Boycott
The Guardian followed the next day
Julien Blanc, the 'female attraction' expert, glorifies sexual violence. The fewer seminars he holds, the better | Somayya Ismailjee
Jake Adelstein of the Japan Times chimed in on the 5th. I can imagine how a long term resident of Japan can be outraged to be grouped together with Blanc. The next day, Jake posted to Japansubculture, repeating some of his japantimes article but also including some important additional info: the possible crimes Julien Blanc committed (and encouraged others to commit) in Japan
Let's ensure no happy returns to Japan for this vile 'dating coach'
The difference between a pick-up artist & getting picked up for crimes in Japan.
Addicting Info (from the looks of it a very liberal site) and Foxnews (a very conservative one) both posted about this, both including a video of Owen Cook (AKA Tyler Durden, the founder of RSD) recounting a time he forced sex on a girl
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/1...ault-women-now-hes-getting-a-lesson-in-karma/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/1...-coach-under-fire-after-video-details-graphic
Another Guardian article from the perspective of a woman who has been approached by misogynist PUAs.
Women, beware this PUA army of sleazebags, saddos and weirdos | Hadley Freeman
She also talks about Dapper Laughs, which is apparently a semi-satirical PUA alter ego of a British comedian, Daniel O'Reilly. I hadn't heard about this before, but this link has some videos, including one where he tries to backpedal on the "character" he created, claiming he thought it was harmless. He's clearly suffering for his folly, but it raises a good question about the nature of satire.
Dapper Laughs on Newsnight: 'I did not realise that I was causing a problem'
Australian news outlets detailed how protestors disrupted Blanc's workshop in Sydney, and despite a schedule for other workshops, Julien and his assistant ended up fleeing the country (article also contains video)
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...-in-rape-scandal/story-fnh81jut-1227123101152
Japanese, Korean, and British immigration authorities have been alerted to this guy, although it's unclear whether they can or will take action and refuse him entry if he tries to visit. Korea has stated they're prepared to deny him entry (http://www.koreaobserver.com/korea-to-deny-entry-to-pickup-artist-julien-blanc-24586). Canadian immigration has already stated that they can't bar someone entry for their views alone, but IMO if he's promoting crimes against women, that should be grounds for expulsion. Maybe at some point it'll get through to Blanc and his associates that they need to move on.
sigh…
Personally, I find this guy repugnant, not only for the way he treats women, but that he makes a living by encouraging other men to think and act in the same way. This sense of entitlement is one of the core causes of a lot of violence against women (The case of Elliot Rogers comes to mind). I'm happy to see that the response is overwhelmingly one of outrage, and his income is being disrupted as a result. But this guy is just an easy scapegoat, when the true danger is the mindset itself. My biggest hope is that women everywhere learn not about Julien Blanc, but about the approaches these guys use and promote to harass women, so they can recognize what's happening and muster the courage to call them out for it.
What are your thoughts?
Some background, I find this interesting but you can skip it if you want
During my travels, I came across a copy of "The Game," by Rolling Stone writer Neil Strauss, about how he went from writing about a (then) small community of "pick-up artists" (which they abbreviate to "PUA") to becoming one of them and building a massive, lucrative community around using manipulative "approaches" to attract women, until the community he helped build pretty much imploded on itself. It's a compelling narrative and an interesting, quick read if nothing else, but it really gave me a lot to think about the dynamics of attraction and confidence. I even recognized some "plays" that had been used on me before… now THAT was a revelation.
Something that drew empathy was that Strauss, like many men, was timid and lacked confidence, and lamented his inability to attract women. His experience as a PUA made him more confident and allowed him to bed many women. He and the other leaders of the community took these approaches and created "workshops" to "help" similarly awkward guys overcome their awkwardness, for a price. They taught them scripts, gave grooming tips, but most importantly, took them out and forced them to chat up strangers and build confidence in approaching people and not being too fazed when they get turned down. Soon, there were several clans of PUAs that had congealed around the workshops, recreating themselves as clones of their mentors. The approaches were compiled like playbooks for a football team, ranging from simple ice breakers to elaborate choreographed approaches. Approaches were traded and shared, incorporating elements of psychology and even hypnotism.
But as you might expect, as time went on, their interactions with women lost meaning until it all devolved into a numbers game. This game, by definition, objectified women as targets for these approaches. In fact, aspiring PUAs were instructed to approach women they weren't interested in to bolster their confidence, inure them from rejection and hone their "skill." Eventually, this reshaped their perception of the world, where all women were prospective targets, potentially vulnerable to the right kind of manipulation. The failed attempts were shrugged off and quickly forgotten, and the successes were hailed as a testament to the efficacy of their craft. This is the "if it works at all, it must be worth it" attitude that I've heard from the apologists catcalling and other forms of street harassment. There's really no other word for it than misogyny; the whole point was to ignore or minimize the humanity and intelligence of women, and use various means to manipulate them. This isn't about attracting a mate, it's about bedding as many disposable partners as possible, or even just seeing how many phone numbers they could collect.
Ultimately, the community broke apart when PUAs stopped respecting even each other's humanity (shocking twist, I know!) and started breaking their own rules; using manipulative techniques on each other, competing for the same targets, and forming smear campaigns to discredit members they wanted to get rid of. One of the most divisive players in this drama went by the moniker "Tyler Durden," who started using forms of minor assault to approach women. Strauss described him as a sociopath who didn't recognize the humanity in his targets or his fellow PUAs; everyone was just an object to be manipulated. He used backroom politics to oust PUAs he saw as a threat, and finally the community splintered. Then the approaches themselves started to suffer from their own popularity, leading to a saturation point where women began to recognize the same old tricks being attempted on them. Once they knew they were the targets of manipulative techniques, women were better able to defend themselves, rendering the approaches ineffective. This is where The Game leaves off.
This brings us to today:Something that drew empathy was that Strauss, like many men, was timid and lacked confidence, and lamented his inability to attract women. His experience as a PUA made him more confident and allowed him to bed many women. He and the other leaders of the community took these approaches and created "workshops" to "help" similarly awkward guys overcome their awkwardness, for a price. They taught them scripts, gave grooming tips, but most importantly, took them out and forced them to chat up strangers and build confidence in approaching people and not being too fazed when they get turned down. Soon, there were several clans of PUAs that had congealed around the workshops, recreating themselves as clones of their mentors. The approaches were compiled like playbooks for a football team, ranging from simple ice breakers to elaborate choreographed approaches. Approaches were traded and shared, incorporating elements of psychology and even hypnotism.
But as you might expect, as time went on, their interactions with women lost meaning until it all devolved into a numbers game. This game, by definition, objectified women as targets for these approaches. In fact, aspiring PUAs were instructed to approach women they weren't interested in to bolster their confidence, inure them from rejection and hone their "skill." Eventually, this reshaped their perception of the world, where all women were prospective targets, potentially vulnerable to the right kind of manipulation. The failed attempts were shrugged off and quickly forgotten, and the successes were hailed as a testament to the efficacy of their craft. This is the "if it works at all, it must be worth it" attitude that I've heard from the apologists catcalling and other forms of street harassment. There's really no other word for it than misogyny; the whole point was to ignore or minimize the humanity and intelligence of women, and use various means to manipulate them. This isn't about attracting a mate, it's about bedding as many disposable partners as possible, or even just seeing how many phone numbers they could collect.
Ultimately, the community broke apart when PUAs stopped respecting even each other's humanity (shocking twist, I know!) and started breaking their own rules; using manipulative techniques on each other, competing for the same targets, and forming smear campaigns to discredit members they wanted to get rid of. One of the most divisive players in this drama went by the moniker "Tyler Durden," who started using forms of minor assault to approach women. Strauss described him as a sociopath who didn't recognize the humanity in his targets or his fellow PUAs; everyone was just an object to be manipulated. He used backroom politics to oust PUAs he saw as a threat, and finally the community splintered. Then the approaches themselves started to suffer from their own popularity, leading to a saturation point where women began to recognize the same old tricks being attempted on them. Once they knew they were the targets of manipulative techniques, women were better able to defend themselves, rendering the approaches ineffective. This is where The Game leaves off.
Although the house that peacocking built had collapsed, these guys haven't gone away, and there are still many men out there desperate enough to spend their money to learn how to approach women. It seems that the "teachers" that still offer these workshops come from the less scrupulous schools of pick-up artistry. Namely, the ones who actively and admittedly objectify women, degrading them in the hopes that it'll trigger a favorable response. Owen Cook (AKA Tyler Durden, the aforementioned sociopath) started a company called Real Social Dynamics (RSD), offering PUA workshops for about $3,000 a head. One of his associates is Julien Blanc.
This video popped up on my Facebook feed a couple weeks back, and I've since seen a deluge of posts and articles on this guy and his tactics (for lack of a better word). I've been collecting links as they've appeared, so I could share them somewhere. The original video that garnered attention was put together by a Japanese youtuber (msdoom99), who took Blanc's own clips and added Japanese subtitles so people in Japan could see what he's saying about Japan and Japanese girls. It's pretty vile. There's even footage of him accosting women in clubs, on the street, and even a convenience store clerk.
Blanc pretty much embodies the most misogynist aspects of The Game, choking women, forcing their heads to his crotch, and berating them publicly. In the video, he brags to a room of hopeful players about how easy it is for him to get laid in Japan through his forceful means, and encourages them to do the same.
Here's some images of him with his hands around women's necks. In the photos he's repeating the same gesture as he does something inappropriate, which was described by Strauss as a technique designed to elicit a Pavlovian response that "this is a good thing, this is okay." He knows this is NOT okay, and to me the gesture is an admission of guilt.
He's posted the following chart on domestic abuse with the caption "might as well be a checklist"
After the subtitled video was released by msdoom99, a woman in DC started a petition for venues to cancel RSD's workshops and for their web servers to take down their material:
Sign the Petition
Buzzfeed picked up the story on November 3rd
American Pick-Up Artist Who Teaches Manipulative Techniques Faces Australian Boycott
The Guardian followed the next day
Julien Blanc, the 'female attraction' expert, glorifies sexual violence. The fewer seminars he holds, the better | Somayya Ismailjee
Jake Adelstein of the Japan Times chimed in on the 5th. I can imagine how a long term resident of Japan can be outraged to be grouped together with Blanc. The next day, Jake posted to Japansubculture, repeating some of his japantimes article but also including some important additional info: the possible crimes Julien Blanc committed (and encouraged others to commit) in Japan
Let's ensure no happy returns to Japan for this vile 'dating coach'
The difference between a pick-up artist & getting picked up for crimes in Japan.
Addicting Info (from the looks of it a very liberal site) and Foxnews (a very conservative one) both posted about this, both including a video of Owen Cook (AKA Tyler Durden, the founder of RSD) recounting a time he forced sex on a girl
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/1...ault-women-now-hes-getting-a-lesson-in-karma/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/1...-coach-under-fire-after-video-details-graphic
Another Guardian article from the perspective of a woman who has been approached by misogynist PUAs.
Women, beware this PUA army of sleazebags, saddos and weirdos | Hadley Freeman
She also talks about Dapper Laughs, which is apparently a semi-satirical PUA alter ego of a British comedian, Daniel O'Reilly. I hadn't heard about this before, but this link has some videos, including one where he tries to backpedal on the "character" he created, claiming he thought it was harmless. He's clearly suffering for his folly, but it raises a good question about the nature of satire.
Dapper Laughs on Newsnight: 'I did not realise that I was causing a problem'
Australian news outlets detailed how protestors disrupted Blanc's workshop in Sydney, and despite a schedule for other workshops, Julien and his assistant ended up fleeing the country (article also contains video)
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...-in-rape-scandal/story-fnh81jut-1227123101152
Japanese, Korean, and British immigration authorities have been alerted to this guy, although it's unclear whether they can or will take action and refuse him entry if he tries to visit. Korea has stated they're prepared to deny him entry (http://www.koreaobserver.com/korea-to-deny-entry-to-pickup-artist-julien-blanc-24586). Canadian immigration has already stated that they can't bar someone entry for their views alone, but IMO if he's promoting crimes against women, that should be grounds for expulsion. Maybe at some point it'll get through to Blanc and his associates that they need to move on.
sigh…
Personally, I find this guy repugnant, not only for the way he treats women, but that he makes a living by encouraging other men to think and act in the same way. This sense of entitlement is one of the core causes of a lot of violence against women (The case of Elliot Rogers comes to mind). I'm happy to see that the response is overwhelmingly one of outrage, and his income is being disrupted as a result. But this guy is just an easy scapegoat, when the true danger is the mindset itself. My biggest hope is that women everywhere learn not about Julien Blanc, but about the approaches these guys use and promote to harass women, so they can recognize what's happening and muster the courage to call them out for it.
What are your thoughts?