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Banned from Japan

I can't comment on your situation, but I do want to point out that immigration has been absolutely fair to me, even though my situation had no real precedent. They requested extra information but as soon as I gave them reasonable answers to their reasonable questions they granted my visa.

The people at the desks have all been exceptionally friendly and helpful.

I don't think it's fair to characterize them the way you have. They are people doing a job and, quite frankly, not one with much appreciation.
 
I can't comment on your situation, but I do want to point out that immigration has been absolutely fair to me, even though my situation had no real precedent. They requested extra information but as soon as I gave them reasonable answers to their reasonable questions they granted my visa.

The people at the desks have all been exceptionally friendly and helpful.

I don't think it's fair to characterize them the way you have. They are people doing a job and, quite frankly, not one with much appreciation.

Thank you for your sharing.
I wasn't referring to desk guys.
They have been ok with me all the times, I landed there.

I was talking about those who work "behind the scenes".
They have to "show that you are welcomed", tourism wise...
But to get integrated in the system as a equal, forget it. And at the first, repeat, FIRST mistake you make, they can't wait to kick you out...
So there no second chance there, a kind of warning (unlike in my country we give a second chance to immigrants with a written and signed warning. Coz we are all human beings....Unless you are a murderer... Or a psychopath) that grant you a second chance and reflect on what you did. No! Nothing. End! Caput! No mercy.
Even if you had a great background for over a decade by graduating in a well-known University in Tokyo (and even getting twice a scholarship) and working there with a great income = great taxes for their pockets.
Even if at the trial several Japanese friends witnessed that I was a kind, generous person (they sweared in front of the judge!), that I was helping people by doing some volunteering, that I never had a fight or a related trouble before that episode. A single episode!

After the sentence, in less than 48 hours, once back home, I got a letter from immigration in my post box, where they "kindly" said: if you will not to wish appealing, 14 days time, GET A HELL OUT OF HERE (written in 5~10 languages, in red, bold and underlined, to make sure I wouldn't "missunderstand".LOL) or we'll come for you.
Nice. Thank you immigration guys. :)

" even though my situation had no real precedent. "
I beg your pardon, what do you mean by "not real precedent"?
You got sentenced for a less-than-12 months crime?
 
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Hello Hope & Faith,

I have to ask: if you find the Japanese so racist and discriminatory, why are you so keen to get back here and make a life for yourself? Would you not be much happier to be in a society that is more familiar to you?
 
Hello Hope & Faith,

I have to ask: if you find the Japanese so racist and discriminatory, why are you so keen to get back here and make a life for yourself? Would you not be much happier to be in a society that is more familiar to you?
Am I asking you too much, if I you read, at least partially tread?
Coz I have repeated it, over and over... I just say it's about my fiancée's situation...
Thank you so much for your post and concern, regarding my case. :)
 
I read your posts, but I cannot help but think you will eventually be very unhappy here, as Debito soon became.
 

I really understand your frustration (If someone told me that I could never in my life visit Japan again, I would feel very sad), but at the same time I think that your stance against discrimination is somewhat unjustified.

In my opinion racism is just a matter of perspective. My humble opinion is that a foreigner - a guest if you will - does not necessarily need to have the same rights as the local population. It's their country. If you don't like it, you are free to live elsewhere.

It is a mistake to think that every country has the same treatment towards foreigners, and that the same kind of "humanity" regarding the law can be expected. And basically, law is mostly a reflection of the culture of a country (people as a nation elect the members of government, government makes laws, judges make decisions based on the law). Japan is an island nation with little ethnic diversity and influence, and furthermore they are not part of an epic screw up like the EU, so they are still boss in their own home. Where I live people can be quite rude to a police officer before they even get a warning (shown everyday on those police reality tv shows..), and in Japan it's one strike you're out. The thing is: you decided to live in Japan, and therewith automatically agreed and accepted the terms and conditions. For 11 years you seemed to be fine and happy with Japan, so I think complaining about their racism is not justified.
 
Am I asking you too much, if I you read, at least partially tread?
Coz I have repeated it, over and over... I just say it's about my fiancée's situation...
Thank you so much for your post and concern, regarding my case. :)

I suppose it's a testament to the kindness and patience of people here that this person has made it to page 3.

Over on reddit, @Hope&Faith would've been laughed off, and downvoted so much that he might've gotten at most a dozen replies, and some of those would be ridicule.

@Hope&Faith ... keep that in mind!
 
I suppose it's a testament to the kindness and patience of people here that this person has made it to page 3.

I apologize, I didn't mean to be rude.

Over on reddit, @Hope&Faith would've been laughed off, and downvoted so much that he might've gotten at most a dozen replies, and some of those would be ridicule.
@Hope&Faith ... keep that in mind!

Ohhh, really? And? Do you really think I would care? Do you think that my life depends on other's opinion about my person? Lol :D
Fortunately there are much more kind and willing people in this forum, to try giving me a hand.
Even Mike Cash was helpful in some ways.
And I thank all.

@Cocochi:
I'll reply you soon, sorry, I have some tasks I need to end by this evening, regarding my job. :)
 
@Hope&Faith

Well, you've run this on for three pages...,

Haven't you gotten the message!?!? :what:

Actually, I need to reply to Cocochi later on, once more and I'm done. He really was willing and understanding. And I really appreciate that.

Anyway, thank you for pointing out my rudeness in regards of the user Majestic, which, I repeat, was unintentional at all. :)
 
Trying to sneak in on a separate passport or nationality strikes me as a terrible idea. If you're caught, you'll ruin whatever small chance you might have to reverse your banning. Even if you don't get caught, you'll be looking over your shoulder all the time, wondering when you will be. I don't believe a competent lawyer would endorse such a scheme.

There may be some procedure or means of petitioning a court to reverse your ban. See a REAL lawyer for REAL advice. For what little it may be worth, here's some from a non-Japanese lawyer.

1. Marry that girl. You'll be on better ground for claiming leniency if she's not a mere girlfriend to you. A wife gives more legitimacy to the claim. Looked at more romantically, why let Japanese immigration stand in the way of true love?

2. Go off and live with that girl in some other country for at least a few years. Her parents are probably young enough to not need her help for a while yet. Then, after you've lived together long enough to show that the marriage is not a sham, apply for admission to Japan.

3. Keep your record clean for those same years. Learn other ways to assert your self-respect than by punching people.

4. Lose the attitude. This was YOUR fault, YOUR mistake. You would have had the same thing happen to you in a US court. What you don't seem to grasp is that one crime (the police officers assaulting you) does not excuse another (your punching the officer). In US law you could be excused if you could show you were in fear of your life or severe bodily harm. You probably missed your chance to argue this defense, though. In no jurisdiction I know of are you allowed to punch someone to preserve your self-respect. Until you recognize your own responsibility you're not likely to convince anyone else you're repentant.

5. In your petition or hearing, state that you were young and drunk and afraid, and apologize profusely. If you've since quit drinking, all the better, and be sure to say so.

I would be very surprised if there is not some legal procedure that can be used to petition for getting that ban order rescinded. The problem is setting up the facts so that you have a chance to win.
 
The girl doesn't want you. She wants her parents (and life here).

She wants you to go away. To disappear. To become something she has forgotten.

You are like chewing gum stuck on her shoe.


No? Throughout all this it has always been about you, and never about her, or what she has said or expressed to you. She wants to stay with her parents; she has chosen them, not you. Live with that.

She is probably very thankful that you will never be coming back.
 
Trying to sneak in on a separate passport or nationality strikes me as a terrible idea. If you're caught, you'll ruin whatever small chance you might have to reverse your banning. Even if you don't get caught, you'll be looking over your shoulder all the time, wondering when you will be. I don't believe a competent lawyer would endorse such a scheme.

There may be some procedure or means of petitioning a court to reverse your ban. See a REAL lawyer for REAL advice.
This. You have already been banned for life... if you try to break the law before exhausting all legal means of getting back in, you risk consequences more severe than getting turned around at the airport. Do you know what those consequences might be for trying to defraud immigration? This horror story is from a journalist who didn't even commit a crime.

You keep asking "how can you be so sure," as if the fact that no one knows whether you'll be caught makes the risk worthwhile. Ultimately, only you can decide that, but take note that no one here has said that this is a good idea. Call it what you like, but this isn't just a mistake or misunderstanding, you are talking about knowingly and willfully breaking the law.

Your narrative has shown that you aren't terribly repentant for the crime you committed, except for the effect it's had on you. You've railed against the discrimination foreigners face, which really has nothing to do with you; you weren't banned for being a foreigner, you assaulted a cop. I would expect the same treatment if I made the same mistake. Being drunk and getting provoked doesn't provide you with absolution, even though you seem to think it should. Did you ever apologize to the officer you punched? Did you apologize to the court? Not that it would have changed your circumstances for certain, but after 11 years in Japan, you still don't understand the cultural significance of swallowing your pride?

Talk to a real lawyer and try to do this the right way. Nobody here endorses your attempt to exploit a loophole, even if it does exist.
 
@cocoichi

I really understand your frustration
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate. :)
At least some empathy here.

If you don't like it, you are free to live elsewhere.
Very true, but I started to dislike the system after I experienced on my own skin, how the system works. You never really know, before you have "broken in".
Indeed, I don't intend to live there steadily, never ever anymore, even if I would get a 0,001% chance to get the ban removed.
You already know my reasons why I was willing to come back TEMPORARILY.

It is a mistake to think that every country has the same treatment towards foreigners, and that the same kind of "humanity" regarding the law can be expected.
Completely right, my mistake.

Where I live people can be quite rude to a police officer before they even get a warning (shown everyday on those police reality tv shows..), and in Japan it's one strike you're out.
Don't worry, in my Country is the same. We have the opposite problem in EU. Too much freedom.
A way in the middle would be perfect.

Anyway thank you so much for your advices and toughs. You gave me a great support.
And, yes, thanks to this forum I gave up the idea doing that craze... :)
THANK YOU AGAIN!
 
Trying to sneak in on a separate passport or nationality strikes me as a terrible idea. If you're caught, you'll ruin whatever small chance you might have to reverse your banning. Even if you don't get caught, you'll be looking over your shoulder all the time, wondering when you will be. I don't believe a competent lawyer would endorse such a scheme.

There may be some procedure or means of petitioning a court to reverse your ban. See a REAL lawyer for REAL advice. For what little it may be worth, here's some from a non-Japanese lawyer.

1. Marry that girl. You'll be on better ground for claiming leniency if she's not a mere girlfriend to you. A wife gives more legitimacy to the claim. Looked at more romantically, why let Japanese immigration stand in the way of true love?

2. Go off and live with that girl in some other country for at least a few years. Her parents are probably young enough to not need her help for a while yet. Then, after you've lived together long enough to show that the marriage is not a sham, apply for admission to Japan.

3. Keep your record clean for those same years. Learn other ways to assert your self-respect than by punching people.

4. Lose the attitude. This was YOUR fault, YOUR mistake. You would have had the same thing happen to you in a US court. What you don't seem to grasp is that one crime (the police officers assaulting you) does not excuse another (your punching the officer). In US law you could be excused if you could show you were in fear of your life or severe bodily harm. You probably missed your chance to argue this defense, though. In no jurisdiction I know of are you allowed to punch someone to preserve your self-respect. Until you recognize your own responsibility you're not likely to convince anyone else you're repentant.

5. In your petition or hearing, state that you were young and drunk and afraid, and apologize profusely. If you've since quit drinking, all the better, and be sure to say so.

I would be very surprised if there is not some legal procedure that can be used to petition for getting that ban order rescinded. The problem is setting up the facts so that you have a chance to win.

Thanks a lot for your concern, too!
But I already gave up that idea, thanks to you guys that made me deeply reflect on it.
Funny that those 2 lawyers preferred me to gamble, or at least not trying to convince me that my idea was a pure madness... But I guess that anyone needs to make a living... lol

About the points 1 and 2: We'll try, It will a way harder and expensive (she might have to go back every 1-2 months and at any kind of emergency). Let's see how the situation will develop. :)

point 3: I never did anything against the law, in any country. It was just 1 single episode of my entire life that changed my life-path dramatically. Only one single mistake in 32 years (my age at that time). So don't worry and THANK YOU! :)

point 4: I beg your pardon but, I really have no idea what happened to my brain in that awkward situation. It wasn't fear, rather some kind of latent anger/frustration and those 4 guys were capable to make me to "pull the trigger". Maybe deep in my heart I wasn't happy there already, but my mind wanted to deny that idea at all costs.... Fear to start over from 0, after 11 years? Really not sure, these are just hypothesis at the moment. I'm still trying to figure it out by going to a therapist (AKA shrink) here in Bangkok, once a week. But still no satisfactory conclusions, yet... Too many doubts...

point 5: You have no idea how many times I apologized, countless times. I even shaved my head (japanese culture, in order to show deep regret).
Anyway let's see. First we'll try (she isn't just a gf to me) as you suggested me on first 2 points. In the meanwhile (in the upcoming years) I'll contact an international lawyer, what kind of chance I'll have to get my ban removed or, at least how to get some sort of "special landing permissions", as Mike Cash suggested.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS! :)
 
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Thanks to you,too! :)

This. You have already been banned for life... / .... This horror story is from a journalist who didn't even commit a crime.

A already stated that I decided to quit that idea. Thanks. :)
Yes, I read about that "horror story", but... working illegally for more than a year without paying taxes, isn't a crime?

About the rest, you can read above. :)
.....

Your narrative has shown that you aren't terribly repentant for the crime you committed, except for the effect it's had on you
This point made me to meditate a lot....
That implies that my shrink is right. He said I might be affected by a "Narcissistic personality disorder", but we are still working on that...
Thank You!
 
Allow me to apologize to you, Hope&Faith. I was trying to make a point, but it was not particularly helpful to your situation. Just to clarify, I agree with the others who are discouraging you from exploiting a possible security loophole by using a different passport. I also agree with the idea of finding a lawyer who can eventually help get your ban overturned. Good luck.
 
Allow me to apologize to you, Hope&Faith. I was trying to make a point, but it was not particularly helpful to your situation. Just to clarify, I agree with the others who are discouraging you from exploiting a possible security loophole by using a different passport. I also agree with the idea of finding a lawyer who can eventually help get your ban overturned. Good luck.

Apologize to me? I'm the one who should apologize to you, by wasting your time!!!!
Anyway, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
 
"point 4: I beg your pardon but, I really have no idea what happened to my brain in that awkward situation. It wasn't fear, rather some kind of latent anger/frustration and those 4 guys were capable to make me to "pull the trigger". Maybe deep in my heart I wasn't happy there already, but my mind wanted to deny that idea at all costs.... Fear to start over from 0, after 11 years? Really not sure, these are just hypothesis at the moment. I'm still trying to figure it out by going to a therapist (AKA shrink) here in Bangkok, once a week. But still no satisfactory conclusions, yet... Too many doubts..."

If I was being shoved around by four laughing, insulting cops, I would be afraid. I mean, who are you going to call on the cops? You can call the cops on anyone else who's committing a crime against you, but what are you going to do when it's the cops who are committing the crime? I'm sure I'd feel fear, maybe enough to strike out.

I suggest to you that what you felt more than anger was fear. Think about it for a while, then go see a good lawyer.
 
f I was being shoved around by four laughing, insulting cops, I would be afraid. I mean, who are you going to call on the cops? You can call the cops on anyone else who's committing a crime against you, but what are you going to do when it's the cops who are committing the crime? I'm sure I'd feel fear, maybe enough to strike out.

I suggest to you that what you felt more than anger was fear. Think about it for a while, then go see a good lawyer.

I'm sure I'd feel fear, maybe enough to strike out.
glad to know I'm not the only one... :) thank you. that makes me feel better.

So you think it was pure fear? I can't assert that 100%. I was heavily drunk at that time... alcohol can
increase aggressiveness (according to my shrink) without considering all the variables of the case... I'm so confused right now...

Yes, I'll meditate about it for sure, then I'll contact an international lawyer, who actually i know indirectly (he is from New Zealand, and married to one of my EXs...lol... but his reputation is astounding [he was capable to let in Japan, Mike Tyson in order to assist to K1 fights] about these cases, like his fees....lol).

but, overall

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't expecting any reply anymore...

How can I repay you?
 
A good news. my baby just got a 3-months tourist visa in Thailand. she will be here on 31st july for 3 months, unless her parents will be in trouble. so happy! :)
 
Ain't scared anymore and unlike, many chickens in this world, I'll post my pics showing myself.

on the left there is my lawyer, my hero, who believed in me, in my person and got me out; 2nd pic, just to get an idea who I am; 3rd pic, my job: composing and arrange music that may you listen everyday, lol. :)

Admin edit: Removed pictures per request
 
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funny stuff is that I get even greater salary in BKK, than Tokyo and have much more freedom to use my creativity....moreover, the cost of living here is about a quarter compared to Tokyo.
Maybe I was blessed by being kicked out from that "yes,man", country.
Who knows... but, one thing is for sure: I'm 100x times happier here than in that nazi country.
Why? Coz my love is coming in few days!
 
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