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Help あと「で」デザート「に」アイスクリーム「を」食べましょう。

Just to illustrate with some examples:

汽車がトンネルを出た。
A train came out of the tunnel.

から
このバスはニューヨークからきた。
This bus came from New York.
Could you say for example:
汽車がトンネルから出た
このバスはニューヨークをきた。
 
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Some more examples (sorry for spamming but I'm studying this at the moment:
1. わたしは朝日七時半にうち出る。
The movement begins from the house.

2. バス降りた時友達に会った。
I met a friend when I got off the bus.
The movement begins from the bus (降りた).

3. 日本離れて外国で暮らしている。
He left Japan and is living abroad.
The movement begins from Japan (離れて).

Now let's compare with から.
4. このバスはニューヨークから来た。
This bus came from New York.
The movement begins from New York.

According to my dictionary, I could substitute を for から in 1, 2 & 3.
The book explains the difference the two as:
を: indicates the location where some movement begins.
から: marks the initial location in movement from one location to another.
...
This means that when the old location and the new location is mentioned, we should use から. Otherwise, they're interchangeable. I think that's it!!
 
I wanted to go back to に and で when it comes to time.
に: A particle which indicates a point in time at which something takes place.
わたしは
毎朝六時半起きる。
I get up at six thirty every morning.
In the description of に, it says that に can be used for time when the moment can be translated as digits. In other words, the days of the week can be used with に because they're the first, second, third... days of the week. Today, on the other hand, can't be used with に because it can't be translated by digits (without context).
Yet, we say 前に. This is strange because 前 doesn't refer to a point in time which can be translated with digits. Why is that?
 
で: indicates the time when s.t. terminates or the amount of time a period of activity has taken.
Ex.:
① このコンサートは十時終わります。
Technically, 10 o'clock is a point in time (see に above). However, since there's something finishing at that time, we use で.
② わたしのパスポートは六月きれる。
Same thing as above. The passport expires (finishes) in June.

③ アメリカに来てから今日三年になる。
This one is an amount of time an activity has taken. Strangely enough, the period of time is 三年 and yet the で is after 今日 instead of after
三年. I wonder why. After reading the book, it turns out that で comes after up to X. So in other words, in ③, it's three years up to today, which is why で goes there.
 
I thought that was the function of で
As I wrote "the verbs that can be used with this で are limited" in my previous post, both までに and で can be used for 終わる, which expresses "something terminates", but で can't be used for 作る since this verb doesn't have this meaning, so you can't use 今夜十時でレポートを作ろう instead of までに.

までに means "by" or "before", therefore 十時までに might be 9:50, 9:30, or even 9:00. 十時まで expresses a time period here "from now to 10". に refers to a point/moment in this period.

このコンサートは十時で終わります。
This concert will be over at 10 o'clock.
In DBJG, they provide the example above.
So if I wrote:
このコンサートは十時までに終わります。
This concert will be over by 10 o'clock.
Is that accurate?
十時で終わります connotes that it's over at 10 how much the concert will excited. Thus, those two expressions are basically the same, but the nuance are a bit different.

So whenever で is used with time, it means the finishing time, correct? If that's the case, it's simple and I understand.
With specific verbs, yes.

Since を can mean a starting point when you're talking about movement verbs: a particle that marks the location from which some movement begins.
Isn't that the same thing as から?
A particle which indicates a starting point or a source.
Is it me or do they refer to the exact same thing?
Just to illustrate with some examples:

汽車がトンネルを出た。
A train came out of the tunnel.

から
このバスはニューヨークからきた。
This bus came from New York.
Could you say for example:
汽車がトンネルから出た
このバスはニューヨークをきた。
Some more examples (sorry for spamming but I'm studying this at the moment:
1. わたしは朝日七時半にうち出る。
The movement begins from the house.

2. バス降りた時友達に会った。
I met a friend when I got off the bus.
The movement begins from the bus (降りた).

3. 日本離れて外国で暮らしている。
He left Japan and is living abroad.
The movement begins from Japan (離れて).

Now let's compare with から.
4. このバスはニューヨークから来た。
This bus came from New York.
The movement begins from New York.

According to my dictionary, I could substitute を for から in 1, 2 & 3.
The book explains the difference the two as:
を: indicates the location where some movement begins.
から: marks the initial location in movement from one location to another.
...
This means that when the old location and the new location is mentioned, we should use から. Otherwise, they're interchangeable. I think that's it!!
That definition of を is applied not to all verbs, but to the ones that have a nuance of "leaving a place" among intransitive verbs for transfer, as I already pointed out. The basic idea of 来る is "to come close to the speaker or the place they are referring to". Thus, this verb doesn't have a nuance of "leaving a place", so を can't be used to indicate the starting point for 来る. から indicates the starting point for almost all verbs, so 汽車がトンネルから出た is correct, of course.

Now you can see the reason why #1~3 are valid, and it's not "when the old location and the new location is mentioned, we should use から", right?

I wanted to go back to に and で when it comes to time.
に: A particle which indicates a point in time at which something takes place.
わたしは
毎朝六時半起きる。
I get up at six thirty every morning.
In the description of に, it says that に can be used for time when the moment can be translated as digits. In other words, the days of the week can be used with に because they're the first, second, third... days of the week. Today, on the other hand, can't be used with に because it can't be translated by digits (without context).
Yet, we say 前に. This is strange because 前 doesn't refer to a point in time which can be translated with digits. Why is that?
前 is a period "from sometime in the past to the referring time", as same as 十時まで, so 前に means "by/before that time" as a result.

で: indicates the time when s.t. terminates or the amount of time a period of activity has taken.
Ex.:
① このコンサートは十時終わります。
Technically, 10 o'clock is a point in time (see に above). However, since there's something finishing at that time, we use で.
② わたしのパスポートは六月きれる。
Same thing as above. The passport expires (finishes) in June.

③ アメリカに来てから今日三年になる。
This one is an amount of time an activity has taken. Strangely enough, the period of time is 三年 and yet the で is after 今日 instead of after
三年. I wonder why. After reading the book, it turns out that で comes after up to X. So in other words, in ③, it's three years up to today, which is why で goes there.
三年になる means "three years has passed". で is used there not to indicate "an amount of time an activity has taken", but to indicate the finishing time "today".

In conclusion, you need to be more careful with the verbs that can be applied to the definitions.
 
Thus, this verb doesn't have a nuance of "leaving a place", so を can't be used to indicate the starting point for 来る.
Ahhhh ok! Right!
In conclusion, you need to be more careful with the verbs that can be applied to the definitions.
So what you're saying is that I need to instinctively identify the verb first to give me some sense of orientation when it comes to which particle I should pick as certain verbs are more likely to use certain particles.
 
Basically, yes. I think the combination between verb and particle is close to the one between verb and preposition in English. Sometimes it's convenient to remember the verb and particle as a set, not just from the definition.

The most common particle to indicate the starting point is から. から can be used also with 出る, 離れる, 発つ, 旅立つ, etc., i.e., verbs that can take を. Similarly, に is the most common to indicate "time". に can indicate the finishing time even for verbs that express something terminates instead of で. The only one point you need to take care with is when the "time" has a relatively long length. For instance, 十時に終わる is valid, but 今日に終わる is invalid since "today" is a long time.
 
The only one point you need to take care with is when the "time" has a relatively long length. For instance, 十時に終わる is valid, but 今日に終わる is invalid since "today" is a long time.

Just following up for clarification (my own as well as the OP's), but might this particular distinction not be better understood in terms of 十時に being a "point" in time at which something ends and 今日で being a "period" of time after which something ends? (i.e. rather than the latter just being a relatively longer period of time)?

It's not likely that anyone would consider, e.g. thirty seconds to be a particularly "long" period of time, but my understanding is that it would still be あと30秒で終わる, not あと30秒に終わる.

(Whereas if you meant "at the thirty second mark", you could conceivably say 30秒に~, just like the distinction between (あと)5分で着く ("I'll be there in five minutes.") versus
(7時)5分に着く ("I'll arrive at [7:]05.")

Example like 今日中(本日中)に or even 年内に kind of complicate matters, but I still tend to mentally frame those as focusing on a single point within a range (similar to how the に functions in 以内に or even までに, where the length of time encompassed can vary widely).

(Apologies if this is already what you meant and I'm just being needlessly pedantic here. ;))
 
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Notice that 今日 is not "period", but "time" as same as 十時 (or more precisely, as same as 今, 先週 or 来月 since 十時 is an absolute time(絶対時間)).:emoji_wink: Thus, 今日で is valid only when the verb expresses "something terminates".
e.g.
〇今日で工事が終わる。
×今日に工事が終わる。
〇今日、工事が終わる。
×今日で彼と会う。
×今日に彼と会う。
〇今日、彼と会う。
(今日 is a relative time (相対時間), so に can't be used with it.)

Only で is used for "period" whether the period is long or short, or whether the verb expresses "something terminates" or not.
e.g.
〇一瞬で理解した。
×一瞬に理解した。
(一瞬 "a moment" is a period, and 理解する "to understand" doesn't express "something terminates".)

〇一週間でお金を使い果たした。
×一週間にお金を使い果たした。
(一週間 "one week" is a period, and 使い果たす "to use up (money)" expresses "something terminates".)


×二時で食事をした。
〇二時に食事をした。
(二時 "two o'clock" is a time, and 食事をする "to have a meal" doesn't express "something terminates".)

〇十時でコンサートが終わった。
〇十時にコンサートが終わった。
(二時 "two o'clock" is a time of a short period(almost a moment), and 終わる "to finish" expresses "something terminates".)

〇今日で夏休みが終わる。
×今日に夏休みが終わる。
(今日 "Today" is a time of a long period, and 終わる "to finish" expresses "something terminates".)

This might be confusing, but when referring to a concrete date, に can be acceptable for a day. で is more common, though.
〇8月31日で夏休みが終わる。
〇8月31日に夏休みが終わる。

Hope this explanation helps.
 
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