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My practice sentences...

Discussion in 'Learning Japanese' started by zxuiji, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    これ は これ が say どう です か

    Now assuming I got my grammer correct that should say This how say this? I don't yet know the word for say so I sumplimented with english. In regards corrective replies don't worry about the word for say (or likewise any later sumplimented words in practice sentences), I'll eventually learn that from the memrise app but I would like input on my grammer handling.
     
  2. Toritoribe

    Toritoribe 禁漁期
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    It's not that simple. In the first place, you need to learn how to embed a question in a sentence. I recommend starting with more simple sentence structure first.
    Incidentally; "to say"
    sayの意味 - goo辞書 英和和英

    Did you give up parsing my example sentence in another thread, by the way?
     
  3. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    Thanks for the word reference but as I said before I'll lean via memrise in regards that, it was only suplemented because I wanted to practice the grammer mainly as the words will gradually be ingrained over time. As for the other sentence I give up only in the here and now since I came across memrise which is helping me get started on speaking and listening to it (hence only furigana in my above attempt), I can do simple statements with words I've learned but I need a more human help in regards more complicated grammer usage. Incidently was I correct in using です or should I have used します? (It was します that indicated to do right?)

    Edit Forgot to say wasn't it ending a sentence with か that defined a question?
     
  4. Mike Cash

    Mike Cash 骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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    Are you trying to say, "What do you call this?" or something like that?
     
  5. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    #5 zxuiji, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    No I was trying to say "This how say this?" or "This how to say this?" The one you mentioned I'll try now: これはどんわがなんどすか

    Edit: Whoops started reading wrong example in middle of that attempt, I'll fix it now
    Edit 2: Doing it in peices.
    Edit 3: I think I got it right now
     
  6. Toritoribe

    Toritoribe 禁漁期
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    You can't practice grammar as far as using English words such like "say". How do you know the appropriate conjugation form of the verb, for instance? Do you accept English learners use "I say it tomorrow", "I say it yesterday", "I've never say it" or like that?
    Neither です nor します is not used in the polite form of the Japanese verb "to say".

    Doesn't make sense at all, as same as your initial translation.

    Lack of spaces actually bothers you after all, right?
     
  7. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    The most I was excpecting is that you would swap it out with the right word in japanese while reading it and tell me if and where there is incorrect grammer usage.
    I'll try the polite stuff when I get to it in the memrise app, for now is everything before that in the right place in regards grammer?
    By that should I assume I failed at the grammer usage?
    Not really, what bothers me is that I've yet to properly understand how to form my own sentences with the grammer I've learned, as for words in general unless they're directly affected by grammer (such as なに becoming なん) I'd like it if you could ignore the occasional english suplementation and focus on whether I'm getting the grammer I've learned right and in the right order.

    Edit: The english supplementation is only there to help you understand what sentence I'm attempting to form.
     
  8. SomeCallMeChris

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    You didn't get the grammar right, not even close. That's why Toritoribeさん said your sentence doesn't make any sense at all.

    Also, Memrise is a perfectly fine SRS/flashcard program that many people use for drilling words and phrases, reinforcing their lessons and building their vocabulary.

    It is not, however, a replacement for a textbook, and you're not going to learn Japanese by using it alone.
     
  9. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    Well until next next payday my finances are tight again so for now it will do. Now since I have failed at the grammer could someone show me those same sentences with correct grammer so I can see where I have gone wrong and try to learn from there.
     
  10. SomeCallMeChris

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    Phrasing verb clauses | Learn Japanese
     
  11. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    #11 zxuiji, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2017
    I just noticed I got my て & と mixed up on the second phrase

    BTW I am taking a look at the provided link

    Right reattempting "This how to say this?"
    これはこれが言うどうです か
    For clarification the sentence is not supposed to quote anything as I read from a reply earlier. The sentence is basically asking if itself has been said correctly (as in was grammer correct and should I have used はなす instead of 言う).
     
  12. Mike Cash

    Mike Cash 骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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    Do you mean "Is this how to say this?"

    You're not going to have any success the way you're going about this. For the love of god, put the apps aside. Google up the pirated scans of Genki to use until you can get the funds together to buy one. Or at least go through Tae Kim's grammar guide until you can buy a proper textbook.

    Memrise may serve you well as a supplementary learning resource later on but it isn't going to get you started. At least tell us what user-created decks you're using so some of us may be able to follow along and try to figure out where you're getting tripped up.
     
  13. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    They're all just call "Japanese 1 (no script)", "Japanese 2 (no script)" etc (also got a couple of them without the "(no script)" attatched. So far I've only completed the "Japanese 1 (no script)" to 95% (haven't gotten through the date chat lesson yet)
     
  14. Mike Cash

    Mike Cash 骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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    Since my iOS is set to Japanese the stupid app won't let me select Japanese to learn....
     
  15. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    Just switch it to english, select the modules then switch back, that should work, or get an old phone and just set that to english and etc (I won't insult your intelligence by giving you a step by step guide)
     
  16. Mike Cash

    Mike Cash 骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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    I live in Japan. Japanese is my language at home, at work, and for everything except the internet. I have my iOS set to Japanese on purpose.
     
  17. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    I didn't mean permanantly, temporary is what I meant, what did you do read the first few words then skip the rest after getting insensed, I did also say you could just use an old phone (I have 2 old phones that I now use just for japanese stuff and final fantasy game stuff), learn to think a little more outside the box every now and again sheesh.
     
  18. Mike Cash

    Mike Cash 骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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    I was as placid as a clam.

    I think I've been just about as tolerant of your abusive language and still remained willing to help you as anyone could be expected to be.
     
  19. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    #19 zxuiji, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2017
    What was abusive about that? You said you keep your current phone on japanese on purpose, fine, what about your old phones or tablets? Do you not just leave them in a corner or something gathering dust? Or what about VirtualBox on your PC? I'm just saying you are focusing too much on one method of verifying what it is I've been learning by, at some point I may just use one of my phones to record me using the app for instance (not right now since I don't feel like it), I may have tunnel vision myself but I at least try what I can before ruling it out, but what about you? Surely you have some other ideas of your own, instead of just talking about what doesn't work for you try something out. On the other hand I never actually expected you to try the app in the first place since what I wanted aid on is my grammer since I don't yet have the hang of it. Ever thought of how you learned english? Sure you learned a few words a day over time but you also learned the grammer at the start to string those words together, that is what I want help understanding and while these links and apps are certainly helpful at teaching words they lack the nessessary human element to help me understand the grammer correctly.

    To be precise, the reason I'm trying so hard to understand how to use the grammer I've learned properly is so that I can then ingrain the words I'm learning into my head with actual sentences being formed in my head at the same I'm doing whatever, be it organising the cages at work to eating various foods wherever I go to the daydreams I do when I go to bed (of which I'm about to go to). While I'm doing that anytime of day I'll also be using the various modules available on memrise to teach more words eventually resulting in me speaking coherent japanese and understanding what is being said in anime and japanese films at the rate it is being spoken rather than repeating each clip frequently to catch the whole of what is being said.
     
  20. Toritoribe

    Toritoribe 禁漁期
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    I'm talking about the sentence in another thread. While you said lack of spaces doesn't bothers you, you couldn't even parse my example sentence without knowing grammar. Just looking up each kanji/word individually doesn't work well in most cases.

    How about this Mike-san's question?
    Please give us a correct English sentence if you want to get a correct Japanese translation.
     
  21. SomeCallMeChris

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    Learning a foreign language as an adult is an entirely different thing from learning one's native language as a child. Also learning your native language as a child involves years of having one or more native speakers constantly hovering over you, providing simple repeated examples and correcting your mistakes.

    Trying to learn a foreign language the way you learned your native language is a futile process, and using that as a model will only lead you astray.
     
  22. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    #22 zxuiji, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2017
    Well of course I had trouble since I don't fully grasp the grammer yet, doesn't mean I wouldn't eventually get it right after 10-20 tries (which I just don't feel like doing)

    Same meaning, I just omitted the "Is" in it.

    Only by two elements
    Is it not sort of similar for those like myself who come to this forum (minus the constant hovering part)
    It is possible to learn all the words before grammer but it is NOT sensible because then one spends at least half as much extra time on learning the grammer. Learning a few words then some grammer to string them together, then a few more then more complicated grammer rules to string the simple grammer together then allows one to practice that grammer and those few words simultainuisly, even if one gets the grammer wrong in their head, it's only for a short while but at least they can check the words by themself, on the other hand the grammer once correctly learned will be properly ingrained as one learns the rest of the words in the language.
     
  23. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    This is basically true. It makes perfect sense to learn vocabulary and grammar together. However the key is to do this in a systematic, logical fashion not in some random haphazard way. If you can't get your hands on a textbook, try some of the free lessons out there.
     
  24. Toritoribe

    Toritoribe 禁漁期
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    "I can do it. I just don't do it"... Well, sounds like a typical excuse...

    Not the same. Or, do you want to get an incorrect Japanese sentence without the main verb similar to yours?

    これを日本語で言う言い方はこれで合っていますか?

    It's almost impossible to point out where is wrong in your sentence since it's totally wrong, and I highly suspect that this correct Japanese sentence is really helpful to understand Japanese sentence structures.
     
  25. zxuiji

    zxuiji Sempai

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    Okay thanks, when I'm finally in the mood to study again I'll try that sentence then, I assume this uses multple grammer rules& particles right? That is the area I have trouble in after all, using single is not a problem but trying to combine them is where I trip up as you noticed with my failed attempts.
     

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