What do you think of mobile payment in China?

Discussion in 'China Forum' started by Ivan Yu, Aug 7, 2018.

?
  1. I like it.

  2. I don't like it.

  3. Never mind

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    In China, nearly all of people will choose mobile payment when they go out. The mobile payment means you don't use the cash, just use your mobile phone to scan a QR code. Then you can pay for the bill, take metro/ bus/ high-speed railway and so on. It is convenient or cumbersome?:emoji_blush::emoji_blush: I hope I can know your idea and I'd like to share the pictures or video of mobile payment to you later.
     
  2. Lomaster

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    I must admit that prevalence of mobile payment would be among top ranks in a list of things i like about China.

    Pros:
    1) Most of the people can't imagine leaving a mobile phone at home when going out. One may even say that mobile phones have become a part of human body, so it i only natural to carry one when going around. Simply put - can't "forget your wallet at home"
    2) Better transaction times. No need to rake for coins and banknotes, no need to calculate change. Shorter lines at check-outs.
    3) Situations when the vendor has no change can't happen.
    4) No counterfeits.
    5) More opportunities for small-scale enterpries. A grandma can pull out a cart, paste a QR-code on it and sell vegetables, fruits, oden, nikumans (sorry i just can't remember proper Chinese names for things i learned as being Japanese) and whatnot.
    6) Can borrow, lend or send money as a present (i.e. to parents, family, friends) in a blink of an eye. Try transfer funds using a bank card in the West, it's not that simple.
    7) It is just as safe as a bank card. Having two types of payment: pin-based or charge-based, only charge-based amount is at risk if your phone is stolen/lost.

    Cons:
    1) Having mentioned relative safety i think a disclaimer is due. If a user didn't take necessary pre-cautions in using their mobile device, like having a memo with the pin-number on a desktop - then the risks may be as high as 50.000元 (per day)
    2) Keeping savings at Chinese banks is controversial. There are numerous cases of accounts being frozen and funds being confiscated for no legal (within the Western meaning of "legality) reasons. This especially concerns government-owned banks lice ICBC, ABC and BoC.
    3) With the prevalence of mobile payment methods, conventional methods are now being discriminated against. One may not receive discounts or bonuses if paying by cash/card. Many vendors won't even take trouble of carrying change. Many services are bound to mobile-payment systems, take for instance shared bikes.
    4) The above mentioned discrimination would not be as noticable if mobile-payment systems themselves were easy to opt in (for a foreigner) You can't use one if you have not Chinese bnk account. And opening an account at Chinese bank is not that simple. If you have a tourist visa - fat chance. If you have other types of visa - best of luck in searching for a bank that would deign to opening an account.
    5) Widespread as it is - every other times i stumble at lack of mobile-payment option in places where one would expect them the most. Like swimming pools, amusement parks, public services.
    6) Taking convenience of mobile payment into account - places where a POS terminals are installed are far and between. And i still believe that bank card is the most convenient payment method (due to it's compact size mostly). Mobile phones are still somewhat cumbersome when going out to a swimming pool, jogging or other activities where one wants to go light-handed.
     
  3. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    I think you had experienced the mobile payment. I totally agree with you about the Pros. About the Cons, I gotta add some info:
    1. (For a foreigner) You can't use one if you have not Chinese bnk account. First, you have to get the VISA, then you can apply the Residence. After that you can apply for a bnk account. It is not convenience for foreigner who travel in China for a while.
    2. In China, bank card is the not a convenient payment method because most of store can't afford a POS.
     
  4. Lomaster

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    While i agree that a tourist can do just fine without a Chinese bank account - it is a matter of daily life conveniences for those of us who stay in China for extended periods. Having a temporary residence permit only makes it possible to apply for a bank account. Me and my peers in China have had our applications rejected up to 7 times in different banks or different branches of a bank before finally being approved. I'm talking student visa and business visa here.

    Exactly. In China it is not. I mean if i had a choice to pay by card or by mobile phone in majority of stores/ticket booths (like back home) - i would prefer a card. My shorts keep slipping down under the weight of a smartphone.
     
  5. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    lol...Will you go out without your smartphone?
     
  6. Lomaster

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    You see? You find it hard to believe. But yes, back home (and even in China) i would often intentionally leave my phone at home. One reason being above-mentioned bulkiness and weight. Another reason - is to get some mental rest from all the "benefits" telecommunications provide us. Remember the time when mobile communications was a luxury only few could afford? Hell, i even remember the time when my household had no phone at all! And still we enjoyed our lives. I believe the humanity has become a bit overdependent on devices.
     
  7. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Ah, that make sense. Actually I will keep myself away from the telecommunications. I will turn off my phone's Internet Traffic or WiFi. But I have to carry my phone when I go out. Just in case. Maybe you will meet something and have to contact with someone. But the point is you have to pay by phone. lol...
     
  8. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Morning, I am back. Today, I'd like to share you how to pass the metro by scan QR code.
    Plz click the link:
     
  9. Julie.chan

    Julie.chan 後輩

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    I've never been to China, but I can imagine the basics of how this mobile payment system would work. And it seems like it should share some of the same benefits and pitfalls as debit cards, correct?

    So here's one aspect that I wish more people would consider: privacy.

    Consider the scenario where you want to purchase a book that expresses a view your government disapproves of. If you pay with cash, you can do so anonymously, leaving no record of your purchase. But if you use a payment system that is connected to your identity in some way, you have no way of knowing for sure whether or not the government knows about your purchase, and there's a pretty good chance that it does. That could be harmless if your government is benevolent, and that's the usually the kind of excuse for giving up privacy that people in the U.S. give, but in some countries this could be risky or even downright dangerous.

    A more minor form, of course, is just knowing where you purchase things and when (which the middle-man handling payment will necessarily see). But cell phones constantly track your location anyway (I think it's reasonable to think of the cell phone as Stalin's dream for this reason), so it's nothing new in the case of mobile payments (though in the case of credit and debit cards, it's definitely worth noting).

    I don't know what the attitude is toward this important issue in China, but it concerns me that so many people in the West regard privacy as a minor footnote. Privacy is the only way to safeguard freedom; without privacy, there is no way for grassroots movements to rise up and challenge the state, because then the state can simply jail or even execute dissidents. This can lead to a snowball effect where essential liberties are eroded, until eventually you end up with a totalitarian dictatorship, like North Korea.

    Of course, you don't need total privacy, just the total option of privacy, free from consequences. So this is not strictly speaking a strike against use of mobile payment at all, just a strike against depending on it exclusively or requiring it. I've heard that cash is almost never used in the Netherlands, and instead they use debit cards; this is a terrible precedent. Even if cash remains as a system, it has to remain in use by the general population for everyday purchases or else any use of cash can become suspicious activity. Everyone should be in the habit of at least occasionally using cash, even if they usually use other payment methods.
     
  10. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    You are right. When we use the mobile payment, our private info will be leak and sold to some
    merchants who pay for it. We often receive many junk messages that bother us.
     
  11. johnnyG

    johnnyG 先輩

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    I've read about this. Not only payment, but menus and ordering, too.

    What do tourists do? How can they eat?
     
  12. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Ah, they can pay by cash or Visa Card. :emoji_grinning::emoji_grinning::emoji_grinning::emoji_grinning:
     
  13. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Morning, everyone. Do you know self-service store/bank/library ? It is popular in China. Without the staff or guard, realized unmanned management. :emoji_kissing::emoji_kissing:
     
  14. johnnyG

    johnnyG 先輩

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    Paying is no problem.

    >> How can you see their menu (and prices) and order your food, since that, too, happens online?
     
  15. Julie.chan

    Julie.chan 後輩

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    Unmanned stores are one thing (we've had vending machines and unstaffed laundromats for decades in the U.S.), but facial recognition and registration before you can enter? That's even worse than refusing to accept anonymous payment. Simple secured vending machines is a much better model; they prevent theft without becoming tools for oppressive governments.
     
  16. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Don't worried about that. You can order online or ask for a print-out menu.
     
  17. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Actually, the vending machines are widespread already. But the Unmanned store totally difference with vending machines. Anyway, hope you have change to experience it before you judge it.
     
  18. Julie.chan

    Julie.chan 後輩

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    Oh, I'm not talking about how convenient it is, only how dangerous it is.

    Think of it this way: do you know where the data about who you are and what your face looks like is being sent? You really can't know for sure. But because you have to identify yourself to a machine before entering the building, you can assume that the business knows when you enter and exit the store. And if the business knows, then the state almost certainly knows.

    I'm sure this makes these unmanned book stores much more convenient than vending machines. The only particular advantage I can think of is the ability to look inside books before buying them, but still, more convenient. Being forced to identify yourself to Big Brother upon entry is not something I would consider to be worth such a convenience.

    So just to be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against unmanned stores. It's just this particular kind of security policy, where you are forced to identify yourself to the store, that I have something against.
     
  19. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    That make sense. Maybe Our private info will be leak. But it hasn't cause a big impact now. Don't you think too danger about it? Most of foreigners who comes from all over the world are used to it in China. So I think you can have a try. It may change your view about "personal Private".:emoji_blush::emoji_blush::emoji_blush::emoji_blush:
     
  20. johnnyG

    johnnyG 先輩

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    It's been a while, maybe a few months(?), but an activist was caught at a soccer game not too long ago. There may have been some other bits of data confirming the ID, but I think it mostly depended on facial recognition.

    A recent article on phone facial recognition touted it as being secure--fingerprints were at the 1:50,000 level of accuracy, while facial recognition was 1:1,000,000.

    Which basically means that by just being out in public you can likely be tracked. (no phone back doors required)
     
  21. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    This plot often borders on farce. lol... In China, sometimes we will hear that ** criminal suspect was caught in concert. Poor suspect and thanks the facial recognition. I think when we use the mobile payment or facial recognition, maybe our info won't be sold to private organization. But the it will be record in some system...
     
  22. johnnyG

    johnnyG 先輩

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    To you, a farce.

    To others, probably not.

    edit: Things like this make me really glad that, at a certain level, Japan is such a heavily cash-based economy.
     
  23. Ivan Yu

    Ivan Yu 後輩

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    Don't they need to take responsibility for themselves?
     
  24. johnnyG

    johnnyG 先輩

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    Gosh, self-responsibility--isn't that a wonderful concept? :emoji_wink:
     
  25. Julie.chan

    Julie.chan 後輩

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    Loss of privacy doesn't cause problems for most people immediately. But it makes it much easier to add oppressive laws down the road, because any opposition can be found and crushed. That's the point: by the time you do notice the effects, it will already be 1984 (as in, George Orwell's book "Nineteen Eighty-Four"). You need to safeguard your privacy and freedom before then, because that's the only time you can do it.
     

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