What is an affair for Japanese?

Discussion in 'All Things Japanese' started by Alishh, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Alishh

    Alishh Registered

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    I am Mexican, and I have a relationship with a Japanese guy.
    One time I went out with a guy friend, I know this guy friend doesn't have interest in me and I don't have interest on him. We went out because he was leaving to USA and I consider him a very good friend.
    I told my boyfriend I was going out and told my plans. I used the word "friend", so maybe I should have used "male friend".

    When I got back home he asked me if I went out with a guy, and I said yes, a friend of mine that was leaving and we wanted to catch up.
    He explained me that in Japan that is affair, so I felt really bad because I was ignorant about that and I was really sorry for making him feel bad, I explained it wasn't like that at all and he told me he was trying to understand.
    I personally don't see anything bad about this, I didn't lie to him, 4 months have passed and he still brings that up, because I choose to go with my friend instead of him.

    I really understand his position, but he CAN'T understand mine, I really was ignorant about that thinking, what can I do to save my relationship? What are your thoughts?
     
  2. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    His thinking is wrong. Even in Japan I think most people would think this is normal. Usually they go out with a group of friends in this situation but even just you and your friend should not be remarkable. Your friend was leaving the country and you went out as friends. So what?
    There was a misunderstanding but that doesn't mean you were wrong. And even though you tried to be understanding and apologized, he won't let it go. I don't think this relationship is worth saving. His behavior will only get worse. Especially if you keep trying to change to please him. He'll never be satisfied.
     
  3. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    #3 jt9258, Sep 19, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    My first comment would have to be that I find it strange that you are a moderator of a Japan forum and giving advice about Japan daily life and do not live here.

    As for the OP's question, going out in a group of co-workers etc is fine, but going out on a one to one date could after the first date be regarded as an affair, its why many foreigners here cannot get a second date with a woman they like.

    You also have to consider that here in Japan a marriage partner can sue a third party for the break up of a marriage.
     
  4. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Actually this question was not about daily life in Japan. It's about intercultural relationship advice and the poster is in Mexico.
    The requirements for being a moderator have more to do with the ability to spot and take action against evildoers than to give advice or reside in a certain area. (Actually forums need moderators across the globe so that we can take action when you're asleep).

    Based on the original poster's description, it wasn't a "date" and certainly not an affair or 浮気. The fact that her boyfriend gave her a hard time about it, didn't listen to her point of view and is still bringing it up months later are not good signs for a long term healthy relationship.

    Not very relevant. They are not married and not even living in Japan.
     
  5. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    #5 jt9258, Sep 19, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    Intercultural relationships do exist in Japan and daily life here does play a role in those relationships.

    So why give advice?

    While the OP may not feel it was a date, it does not matter, here in Japan what matters is what the Japanese partner believes. So if she is not happy in the relationship then she has to make the decision on what is right for her, but she was asking for advice on how to improve the relationship, the only way to do that with a Japanese man is to respect what he says.

    Just because they are not living in Japan does not mean that the Japanese partner can accept his partners ways. If they are not married then the OP has to decide if she wants to stay in a relationship where her partner feels she had an affair, because if they were living in Japan and married, he could sue the third party for breaking up the marriage.
     
  6. Julie.chan

    Julie.chan 後輩

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    jt9258, I'm curious: what is your answer to the OP's question? You said something about "respecting" what her boyfriend says, but I'm curious what exactly that entails. I would have thought that an apology would suffice, but the OP already intimated that she apologized for the incident.
     
  7. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Yes of course. It's still not relevant to the OP.

    I don't understand the question. I was a member on this forum long before becoming a moderator and my giving advice has nothing to do with being a moderator. Why are you giving advice? Probably our reasons are similar.

    If this is true, it's all the more reason for her to get out of that relationship. It may explain why the few American women I know that married Japanese men ended up in divorce. But I don't believe all Japanese men are like that.

    He could sue but he would lose. Assuming the story is what she said -- that she met up with her friend platonically and he moved out of the country. He would have no basis to sue. The "affair" is just in his mind.
     
  8. Lothor

    Lothor Sempai
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    Hi Alishh,

    Agree entirely with what mdchachi said. I'm a British guy living in Japan who has been married to a Japanese woman for 14 years. I have a number of female Japanese friends (usually married) and sometimes go out with them to bars and cafes. My wife and the husbands of the women are entirely happy with the situation (as far as I know!)

    I'm sure there are some Japanese men who would be unhappy with this situation, which I imagine is similar in Mexico, but a platonic night out with a friend of the opposite sex is certainly NOT universally considered as having an affair in Japan.

    Be careful of Japanese people who say that things are done in a certain way in Japan and always get a second opinion!
     
  9. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    #9 jt9258, Sep 19, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    And I have lived in Japan and been married to a Japanese woman longer, if that matters.

    Some Japanese will be happy and others will not, though many Japanese enter marriage fully expecting their partners to see others outside the marriage, as they fully expect the marriage to be sexless after children and my wife was no different, in fact she openly encouraged me to see other woman, I just decided not too.
     
  10. Alishh

    Alishh Registered

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    I believe this is a matter of trusting your partner, and in that doesn't matter which country you come from; you love someone and that person wants to be with you, that person choose you and you choose him/her, why have doubts that he/she will want to be with another person? If he/she wants they just do it, right?

    I spoke with my boyfriend last night about the same things, I only asked why was such a bad thing to go out with a friend and he took that question the wrong way, now he believes I'm putting up with not going out with friends, which I think is ridiculous...

    He also said that I made him a bad person, that he feels stupid for trying to understand, that me and my action are the cause for all these problems, and basically that he will be a robot now agreeing and disagreeing depending on what I say and not sharing his feelings and thoughts for a while at least. I do not want that, and I feel that if I made him all those bad things and I bring too many problems for him, that we think on different levels, we should just end this, but he says he wants to keep the relationship because he loves me. But I said maybe we should take a break, and his answer was we have or we don't, you can have your time but I'm not coming back to you.
    I don't think that is love, he liked me in the first place for who I was, more than a year ago, why is a problem now? He knew we were going to have differences, now he is not able to understand?

    Now I feel like I have been humiliated enough, asking for a forgiveness that I don't need, because I didn't cheated on him, I didn't lie to him, it could have been easier to say it was a girlfriend, but I don't like to lie, and he knows deep inside, that is why he can't break up.
    Now today I really don't feel good about the things he said yesterday, and I have been acting distant, not because I want to make him feel bad, I just really can't believe all the things he said to me yesterday, and he's asking me things like, why you don't reply to me like before, blablabla, Seriously dude?
    I think this relationship needs to end, because I feel I have tried too much, like mdchachi said, he will never be pleased...

    So sorry for the long post, I really needed to vent, and I really need it second opinions!!
    I appreciate everyone's comments, really, thank you!
     
  11. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    But relationships do not work like this in Japan.

    While you are dating there is no commitment and its not based on love, its more about mutual respect and either partner does not have a problem meeting others, though they are not going to advertise the fact they are meeting others.

    The only time you have a level of commitment is once married, but even then its still not based on love, though many Japanese will say they love their western partner, its only said because its some thing the western partner wants to hear.

    As for making your boyfriend a bad person, that is more to do with the Japanese culture of bringing shame on him through your actions.
     
  12. musicisgood

    musicisgood Sempai
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    Are you saying that some Japanese woman that marry non Japanese may marry without love in their relationship?
    I know being in the military and stationed in the Philippines, there probably is some truth to love verses the green card, but Japan, I don't any woman here that would marry just for a green card.
     
  13. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    Japanese men and women marry to have a family and that has nothing to do with love, as they enter the marriage fully expecting it to be sexless after children and the same applies when they marry a non Japanese, though the foreign partner may convince themselves that their marriage is different, even dismissing problems with western logic, that result in them being in a sexless marriage for 10 years or more.

    Yes!! There are Japanese women who will marry so they can live outside Japan, but the reality is that many cannot adapt to western cultural life, as has been discussed here before.
     
  14. Lothor

    Lothor Sempai
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    He also said that I made him a bad person

    Alishh - no you didn't! If he refuses to take any responsibility for his behaviour and feelings, then you should end the relationship.
     
  15. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    What do you mean by "his behavior"??
     
  16. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Based on what you said, he is not a good partner for you. Even though you apologized despite the fact that you did nothing wrong, he didn't let it go. I would move on and don't look back. You deserve better.

    You might want to preface that with "some" or even "many" but such blanket statements are patently false even if it matches your experience. My marriage is not sexless despite having children and being married for nearly 20 years. She's never once encouraged me to find a sexual partner elsewhere. Plenty of American couples have sexless marriages too btw.
     
  17. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    #17 jt9258, Sep 21, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
    I fully expected some one to disagree.

    Your marriage may not be sexless, but then you do not not live in Japan and are therefore outside the group, if your partner is Japanese and you return to Japan watch how they change to fit back into the group.

    Many American's have returned to Japan with their Japanese wives, with the attitude that their wife is different, only to end up divorced a few years later.

    Making comparisons does not prove anything, as the cultures and mindsets are different.
     
  18. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Regardless unless you have some data, like from a Kinsey Report or similar, then it's all anecdotal. And even then blanket statements don't apply.

    You could just as easily say Many American's have stayed in the U.S. with their American wives, with the attitude that their wife is different, only to end up divorced a few years later.
     
  19. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    And you call yourself a moderator.

    Its not anecdotal, its the difference between some of us understanding how things are because we live here, while others do not understand and do not live here.

    Why not ask Uncle Frank!!!
     
  20. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Perhaps you don't understand the role of the moderator? All the moderators do is try to keep things operating according to the terms of service. Not sure what you were expecting. If you feel that I'm not earning my pay, feel free to contact the site owner.
     
  21. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    I understand the role of a moderator and I do not feel its appropriate to aggravate posters.

    Asking for data to support what I say is exactly what trolls start off with.
     
  22. mdchachi

    mdchachi Moderator
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    Perhaps you've never encountered a troll before? That's pretty much not what they do.

    I was pointing out that your blanket statements about what "the Japanese" do and feel are clearly false by definition. "The Japanese" are not a simple collection of stereotypes. Although certainly many of them do conform to common stereotypes including sexless marriages. I don't deny that.
     
  23. jt9258

    jt9258 後輩

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    #23 jt9258, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    Please support your comments with data or a Kinsey report or some thing similar.

    Do you see how irritating that is??

    All I have tried to explain is that for those like yourself who refuse to understand, the result can be much harder than you think, this is why American's who have returned to Japan with their Japanese wives, think they are different because they have lived in the US, only to find that a few years later they are divorced.

    This is because the Japanese partner will fit right back into the group way of life, while the American behaves like a buffoon in Japan and thinks its cool and then wonders why their wife divorces them.
     
  24. HanSolo

    HanSolo 後輩

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    I want to rage and opinion too. How can I join in?
     
  25. Uncle Frank

    Uncle Frank SECURITY-you SPAM/we BAN
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    One of the things JREF tries to do is provide good factual information. When you make a statement that says everyone does this or everyone thinks this way or everyone will have "this" happen to them in Japan , chances are it will not be a "perfectly" true statement. I find that things I was 100% positive about a few years ago , I now feel very different about. People change and the way life affects us make us believe a certain way. When someone disagrees with me , it's better to figure in their mind they are right than to try and tell them they are wrong. BUT....when you post on a forum that provides information to people from around the world , we should try to make sure it is factual. If a person's statement can't be backed up as 100% correct , it would probably be better to say "IN MY OPINION" or "IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" such and such is so. Arguing on the internet to try and change someone's mind usually is a fruitless effort. Just try to keep posts civil and no personal attacks please. Being a moderator or admin should not keep us from posting and giving an opinion as long as we don't abuse our power.
     

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